electrician question for 230v
04-09-2006, 10:18 AM
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electrician question for 230v i'm going to be buying a big air compressor soon and will have it installed in my garage. I will need a 230V outlet to support it. in my garage, the breaker box will be right next to the corner it's going in.
question: what would the going fair rate be to have an electrician come over and install an outlet for the air compressor? does it make it cheaper to have the outlet installed right next to the breaker box or is that pretty irrelevant?
thanks guys
question: what would the going fair rate be to have an electrician come over and install an outlet for the air compressor? does it make it cheaper to have the outlet installed right next to the breaker box or is that pretty irrelevant?
thanks guys
04-09-2006, 10:53 AM
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Most compressors get hard wired to the breaker. How big you going?
I just ordered a Ingersoll-Rand 2340L5 compressor (5 hp, 28A 220VAC motor - they're on sale right now at Grainger for $931
). I *may* hard wire it to the breaker in my shop, but I've already hard wired 2 connections on that breaker (one to my lift, one for an outlet for my welder). I may plug it in to the welder outlet, so that there's no way that the 2 could be operated at the same time (my breaker is a 40A breaker).
Do you have to have an electrician do the work? It's not that difficult, but you do have to be sure to kill power to the box before working on it. Only 3 wires are needed - 2 phase and 1 ground.
Anyway, this is the style of outlet you want...
http://1shop2.com/ace_electrical/Pow...1254-Box-.html
50A, 220VAC outlet. That's what my welder uses.
If you have it professionally done by a licensed contractor, I could see it costing in the $100-$150 range...
I just ordered a Ingersoll-Rand 2340L5 compressor (5 hp, 28A 220VAC motor - they're on sale right now at Grainger for $931
). I *may* hard wire it to the breaker in my shop, but I've already hard wired 2 connections on that breaker (one to my lift, one for an outlet for my welder). I may plug it in to the welder outlet, so that there's no way that the 2 could be operated at the same time (my breaker is a 40A breaker).Do you have to have an electrician do the work? It's not that difficult, but you do have to be sure to kill power to the box before working on it. Only 3 wires are needed - 2 phase and 1 ground.
Anyway, this is the style of outlet you want...
http://1shop2.com/ace_electrical/Pow...1254-Box-.html
50A, 220VAC outlet. That's what my welder uses.
If you have it professionally done by a licensed contractor, I could see it costing in the $100-$150 range...
04-09-2006, 02:08 PM
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i'm not going too big, just something in the sub-500 dollar range to run an hvlp gun as the most demanding thing i would think. the d/a snader i was also looking at said 4 scfm average at 40-90 psi.
i just thought of something, isn't my dryer unit also hooked to 230V? it's only about 5 feet from where i would have the compressor. couldn't i just use an extension cable when the dryer isn't in use? it has a slitghly different 4-prong plug, where the bottom prong is a 90 degree angle.
no, i don't have an electrician... do ijust run wires from the breaker box area? it seems to sound easy enough.
i just thought of something, isn't my dryer unit also hooked to 230V? it's only about 5 feet from where i would have the compressor. couldn't i just use an extension cable when the dryer isn't in use? it has a slitghly different 4-prong plug, where the bottom prong is a 90 degree angle.
no, i don't have an electrician... do ijust run wires from the breaker box area? it seems to sound easy enough.
04-09-2006, 02:29 PM
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You should be fine if you wanted to plug it in to the dryer plug. You would have to make an extension cord of some sort. Dryer plugs seem to change every few years 
so you'd just have to make sure you buy the right one. Most dryer breakers are 30A, so you'd need a 5hp or less compressor (though in the $500 range, you shouldn't have to worry much about "real" vs "fake" compressor hp ratings - just look at the plate on the motor to make sure it doesn't exceed 25 amps - though you'll probably find that none of them do). You can get dryer plugs at Home Depot. But again, turn off the breaker when working on the outlet. 
Watch out on tool ratings. They lie worse than compressor manufacturers. I think they assume 25% duty cycle or so. A DA rated at 4 cfm really consumes 16 cfm continuous. DA's are one of the worst air hogs out there.
To show how bad it is/was, I have a 10 year old 5hp / 30 gallon Campbell-Hausfeld compresosr. It runs on 115VAC. I run a C-H DA sander with it, and it'll lug down and start spitting water all over the place. Nothing like getting a fake 5hp compressor (5 true hp @ 110 vac would require 50 amps!), and lugging it down with a "5cfm" DA sander.
so you'd just have to make sure you buy the right one. Most dryer breakers are 30A, so you'd need a 5hp or less compressor (though in the $500 range, you shouldn't have to worry much about "real" vs "fake" compressor hp ratings - just look at the plate on the motor to make sure it doesn't exceed 25 amps - though you'll probably find that none of them do). You can get dryer plugs at Home Depot. But again, turn off the breaker when working on the outlet. Watch out on tool ratings. They lie worse than compressor manufacturers. I think they assume 25% duty cycle or so. A DA rated at 4 cfm really consumes 16 cfm continuous. DA's are one of the worst air hogs out there.
To show how bad it is/was, I have a 10 year old 5hp / 30 gallon Campbell-Hausfeld compresosr. It runs on 115VAC. I run a C-H DA sander with it, and it'll lug down and start spitting water all over the place. Nothing like getting a fake 5hp compressor (5 true hp @ 110 vac would require 50 amps!), and lugging it down with a "5cfm" DA sander.
04-10-2006, 02:28 PM
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i think the dryer extension cord would be the bestchoice for me as it's economical and i don't plan to live in my house for more than 5 years and i'd only use the compressor occasionally.
just for the hell of it, do you think this craftsman compressor is over-rated? i thought it was wierd that it's a 110 volt unit with a 8.6 scfm @ 40psi, which sounds pretty high:
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/produ...00&tab=spe#tab
i know it's direct drive which is loud as hell, but if it's 110V and wheeled, hell i'll put it out of the garage or out back lol. it'll also be useful when we do the hardwood since the house is pretty big and we could move it upstairs and all around 3600 sq ft of hardwooding nailing stuff.
like i said, the main thing i'm doing is running an hvlp gun (a craftsman or husky piece) that is asking about 6 to 6.2 scfm @ 40 psi.
just for the hell of it, do you think this craftsman compressor is over-rated? i thought it was wierd that it's a 110 volt unit with a 8.6 scfm @ 40psi, which sounds pretty high:
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/produ...00&tab=spe#tab
i know it's direct drive which is loud as hell, but if it's 110V and wheeled, hell i'll put it out of the garage or out back lol. it'll also be useful when we do the hardwood since the house is pretty big and we could move it upstairs and all around 3600 sq ft of hardwooding nailing stuff.
like i said, the main thing i'm doing is running an hvlp gun (a craftsman or husky piece) that is asking about 6 to 6.2 scfm @ 40 psi.
04-10-2006, 03:41 PM
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The compressor looks OK - and you wouldn't have to get a monster extension cord.
I don't know of any HVLP gun that is going to work at that low of CFM rating. The Sears unit says 8.5 cfm minimum compressor. Then again, I used an HVLP gun with my piece of junk 5 cfm C-H compressor for a table and an entertainment center, and while the results weren't snooty decor quality, they were good enough for me.
If you do decide to get that one, and use an HVLP gun with it, get yourself a decent water separator / filter (Harbor Freight has one for $19.99 on sale right now). And put it well downstream from the compressor (run a hose to the filter, and then the hose to the gun). A watertrap/filter mounted right next to or on the compressor is basically worthless, because the air temperature is still high as it exits the compressor. As the air cools, water condenses, so you want some distance between the compressor and the watertrap.
I don't know of any HVLP gun that is going to work at that low of CFM rating. The Sears unit says 8.5 cfm minimum compressor. Then again, I used an HVLP gun with my piece of junk 5 cfm C-H compressor for a table and an entertainment center, and while the results weren't snooty decor quality, they were good enough for me.
If you do decide to get that one, and use an HVLP gun with it, get yourself a decent water separator / filter (Harbor Freight has one for $19.99 on sale right now). And put it well downstream from the compressor (run a hose to the filter, and then the hose to the gun). A watertrap/filter mounted right next to or on the compressor is basically worthless, because the air temperature is still high as it exits the compressor. As the air cools, water condenses, so you want some distance between the compressor and the watertrap.
04-10-2006, 06:13 PM
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well i did some shopping around for some paint guns, and it seems that most guns i saw were in the 60 to 70 range. however, a friend recommended eastwood and they had a good deal on what i heard may be a decent gun kit. it does, however, require about 13 scfm @ 30 psi, so it seems to rule out the cheaper craftsman compressor. check this out and let me know what you think:
http://www.eastwoodco.com/shopping/p...roductID=12296
http://www.eastwoodco.com/shopping/p...roductID=12296
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04-10-2006, 09:17 PM
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13 cfm is a hog. I personally wouldn't go over 10. You can get an Astro DX gun from http://www.spraygunworld.com - it gets rave reviews over on http://www.autobody101.com - for about $75 + shipping (that's for automotive though; - what you're painting should really determine what gun you get).
Try to keep the CFM's down as low as possible on the gun. Matching it to the compressor would help. If you're just doing woodwork, consider a conventional high pressure gun.
Try to keep the CFM's down as low as possible on the gun. Matching it to the compressor would help. If you're just doing woodwork, consider a conventional high pressure gun.
04-10-2006, 10:10 PM
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yeah, i'm painting a 69 nova and a c10 truck from scratch... i don't know if i really need two guns for primer and the single stage or just multiple tips... any advice?
04-11-2006, 09:39 AM
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Keep this in mind: I am an internet expert. I have yet to paint a car - but I have recently been doing considerable research, and have purchased a lot of equipment based on that research. (so all disclaimers apply, Your Mileage May Vary, yada yada yada).
In regards to 2 guns vs. 1 - I've read in a number of places that primer is difficult to completely clean from a gun. So to prevent any primer from being mixed in with paint, a lot of guys choose to run 2 guns.
Gun choice depends on the material you're spraying. For non-metallic colors, or single stage paints (non basecoat / clearcoat), apparently good results can be had from guns like that $75 Astro unit above. Even on non metallic bc/cc paints, it gets good reviews. For me, I'm going to be painting my 94Z and 98Z - both of which are metallic (Navy Blue Metallic for the 98, and Black for the 94). So I opted for a higher end gun (DeVilbiss GFG-670). The better guns have a reduced chance of "tiger striping" the metallic particles, and apparently the particles lay down better. Anyhow, you can get the Astro with 2 tips, if you don't mind disassembling the gun to thoroughly clean all the primer out between priming and painting (you'll do it anyway).
Air consumption - if your compressor puts out right at or less than your gun's requirement, then if you're trying to paint the entire car at once, you're going to overwork the compressor. It'll start making a ton of water, and you'll have to wait for it to catch up a lot.
I chose the GFG-670 as the main gun, and an Astro QUL109 for primer. Primer (especially the thicker ones) requires a larger tip in the gun. Paints and clearcoats get a smaller tip. Both of these guns require ~10 cfm @ 29 psi. The compressor I bought (picking it up today) does 14.7 cfm @ 175 psi. I'm *hoping* that's enough compressor.
In regards to 2 guns vs. 1 - I've read in a number of places that primer is difficult to completely clean from a gun. So to prevent any primer from being mixed in with paint, a lot of guys choose to run 2 guns.
Gun choice depends on the material you're spraying. For non-metallic colors, or single stage paints (non basecoat / clearcoat), apparently good results can be had from guns like that $75 Astro unit above. Even on non metallic bc/cc paints, it gets good reviews. For me, I'm going to be painting my 94Z and 98Z - both of which are metallic (Navy Blue Metallic for the 98, and Black for the 94). So I opted for a higher end gun (DeVilbiss GFG-670). The better guns have a reduced chance of "tiger striping" the metallic particles, and apparently the particles lay down better. Anyhow, you can get the Astro with 2 tips, if you don't mind disassembling the gun to thoroughly clean all the primer out between priming and painting (you'll do it anyway).
Air consumption - if your compressor puts out right at or less than your gun's requirement, then if you're trying to paint the entire car at once, you're going to overwork the compressor. It'll start making a ton of water, and you'll have to wait for it to catch up a lot.
I chose the GFG-670 as the main gun, and an Astro QUL109 for primer. Primer (especially the thicker ones) requires a larger tip in the gun. Paints and clearcoats get a smaller tip. Both of these guns require ~10 cfm @ 29 psi. The compressor I bought (picking it up today) does 14.7 cfm @ 175 psi. I'm *hoping* that's enough compressor.
04-11-2006, 11:45 AM
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i think i got what i needed from this thread about the electrical side of getting a compressor. you gave me some good info, and i think i should start another thread to explore auto paint some more... check it in a few mins
04-14-2006, 08:35 PM
#12
Originally Posted by Camaroholic
Keep this in mind: I am an internet expert. I have yet to paint a car - but I have recently been doing considerable research, and have purchased a lot of equipment based on that research. (so all disclaimers apply, Your Mileage May Vary, yada yada yada).
In regards to 2 guns vs. 1 - I've read in a number of places that primer is difficult to completely clean from a gun. So to prevent any primer from being mixed in with paint, a lot of guys choose to run 2 guns.
Gun choice depends on the material you're spraying. For non-metallic colors, or single stage paints (non basecoat / clearcoat), apparently good results can be had from guns like that $75 Astro unit above. Even on non metallic bc/cc paints, it gets good reviews. For me, I'm going to be painting my 94Z and 98Z - both of which are metallic (Navy Blue Metallic for the 98, and Black for the 94). So I opted for a higher end gun (DeVilbiss GFG-670). The better guns have a reduced chance of "tiger striping" the metallic particles, and apparently the particles lay down better. Anyhow, you can get the Astro with 2 tips, if you don't mind disassembling the gun to thoroughly clean all the primer out between priming and painting (you'll do it anyway).
Air consumption - if your compressor puts out right at or less than your gun's requirement, then if you're trying to paint the entire car at once, you're going to overwork the compressor. It'll start making a ton of water, and you'll have to wait for it to catch up a lot.
I chose the GFG-670 as the main gun, and an Astro QUL109 for primer. Primer (especially the thicker ones) requires a larger tip in the gun. Paints and clearcoats get a smaller tip. Both of these guns require ~10 cfm @ 29 psi. The compressor I bought (picking it up today) does 14.7 cfm @ 175 psi. I'm *hoping* that's enough compressor.
In regards to 2 guns vs. 1 - I've read in a number of places that primer is difficult to completely clean from a gun. So to prevent any primer from being mixed in with paint, a lot of guys choose to run 2 guns.
Gun choice depends on the material you're spraying. For non-metallic colors, or single stage paints (non basecoat / clearcoat), apparently good results can be had from guns like that $75 Astro unit above. Even on non metallic bc/cc paints, it gets good reviews. For me, I'm going to be painting my 94Z and 98Z - both of which are metallic (Navy Blue Metallic for the 98, and Black for the 94). So I opted for a higher end gun (DeVilbiss GFG-670). The better guns have a reduced chance of "tiger striping" the metallic particles, and apparently the particles lay down better. Anyhow, you can get the Astro with 2 tips, if you don't mind disassembling the gun to thoroughly clean all the primer out between priming and painting (you'll do it anyway).
Air consumption - if your compressor puts out right at or less than your gun's requirement, then if you're trying to paint the entire car at once, you're going to overwork the compressor. It'll start making a ton of water, and you'll have to wait for it to catch up a lot.
I chose the GFG-670 as the main gun, and an Astro QUL109 for primer. Primer (especially the thicker ones) requires a larger tip in the gun. Paints and clearcoats get a smaller tip. Both of these guns require ~10 cfm @ 29 psi. The compressor I bought (picking it up today) does 14.7 cfm @ 175 psi. I'm *hoping* that's enough compressor.
And his favorite gun is a 30 year old binks..... I never understood why, but it has produced some of the most awesome paint jobs ever, lays down paint amazingly even and smooth..... Much better then my Astro HVLP....
04-15-2006, 10:31 PM
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well, just got back form home depot and HF... I decided to go ching chong with the compressor. The IR unit would take 6 weeks to get here at $600, and the comparable HF one is $320 and ready to go lol. I figure since i'm new with compressors i can just get a nicer one in the future lol. Plus, the price helps me out with the overall cost of the project by giving me more headroom to buy air tools and a good hvlp gun and paint.
so, what i need help with are two big things:
1. it never hit me before, but this thing has four stamped metal feet with holes in them. do i have to bolt this sucker down? it was bolted to the pallet at HF. if it turns on, will it do the mamba like an unbalanced washing machine? should i put some 1/4" sheet rubber on the bottom so the vibration doesn't eat at the concrete?
2. i decided to temporarily use an extension cord to power the compressor, since it's only 6 feet from the laundry dryer. the guy at home depot wasn't very helpful, but he found me the plug i needed and the right cable - 10 gauge 4 lead for up to 20 amps; mycompressor is rated at 16 amps continuous. The main thing i need help with, is how to connect the four individual leads:
Inside the male plug head, there are four terminals. if the 90 degree prong is south, and the rest are north east and west (looking at the female terminal), which ones are hot and which ones are ground? I have the diagram for the air compressor end, so i think i'll be fine there.
so, what i need help with are two big things:
1. it never hit me before, but this thing has four stamped metal feet with holes in them. do i have to bolt this sucker down? it was bolted to the pallet at HF. if it turns on, will it do the mamba like an unbalanced washing machine? should i put some 1/4" sheet rubber on the bottom so the vibration doesn't eat at the concrete?
2. i decided to temporarily use an extension cord to power the compressor, since it's only 6 feet from the laundry dryer. the guy at home depot wasn't very helpful, but he found me the plug i needed and the right cable - 10 gauge 4 lead for up to 20 amps; mycompressor is rated at 16 amps continuous. The main thing i need help with, is how to connect the four individual leads:
Inside the male plug head, there are four terminals. if the 90 degree prong is south, and the rest are north east and west (looking at the female terminal), which ones are hot and which ones are ground? I have the diagram for the air compressor end, so i think i'll be fine there.
