John at CBM

CBM Motorsports Racing Engines.

What do Drag racing, Drifting and Off Road Racing have
in common with CBM LS, Ecotec and Alloytec race engines.

Take a look at the 2014 racing season so far.



Aurimas “Odi” Bakchis
Feal Suspension
2014 Formula Drift.
Round 1, Streets of Long Beach.
Class: Pro Championship.
Qualified: 14th.
Finished: 7th.
Ranked: 7th.
CBM Motorsports NA 425 LS3





John Guinn
CBM Motorsports
2014 N.M.C.A. West. National Muscle Car Association
Race 1, Lucas Oil Street Car Nationals.
Class: Open Comp.
Qualified: 5th.
Finished: 3rd.
Points Standings: 4th.
CBM Motorsports NA 425 LS3





Jordan Brenthel
Brenthel Industries
2014 B.I.T.D. Best In The Desert
Race 2, General Tire Mint 400.
Class: 7200.
Finished: 4th.
Points Standing: 3rd.
CBM Motorsports 3.6 Alloytec LLT





Jason La Fortune
Temper-Mental Racing
2014 B.I.T.D. Best In The Desert
Race 2, General Tire Mint 400.
Class: 1000.
Finished: 4th.
Points Standing: 5th.
CBM Motorsports 2.4 Ecotec LE5





Dennis Mertzanis
ARK Performance.
2014 Formula Drift.
Round 1, Streets of Long Beach.
Class: Pro Championship.
Qualified: 25th.
Finished: 16th.
Ranked: 16th.
CBM Supercharged LS7

DirtyBird310

iTrader: (14)

Seen the Camaro up close its a beast. Shawn and the guys helped me out getting my motor primed and ready. Bunch of good guys

CBM Motorsports

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the good words Joe! Waiting for you to bring that turboed monster in for a dyno!

DirtyBird310

iTrader: (14)

cant wait till its done

SS MPSTR

iTrader: (1)

This is the same shop who "tuned" a PCM from an automatic to run in a car with a manual transmission (LS1 swap into a Chevelle). It ran like crap and had to be re-tuned by a reputable shop.

CBM Motorsports

iTrader: (2)

SS MPSTR - The computers from an automatic transmisson car to a manual transmission car are the exact same. It is just the program in the computer itself that is different. If this was a mail order tune, we can only do so much with the information supplied. If we were given the wrong info, then yes the tune will be bad. If you did have a problem, we would have taken care of it with no questions asked. We stand behind all our products and services.

SS MPSTR

iTrader: (1)

Thanks - I'm aware that the PCM is the same physical size.

This was a job for Mark Harrison, who charged my father a fortune for an LS1 swap (and was responsible for getting it tuned and drive-able), who in turn passed along info that you tuned it and that's the best it could be. CMS got it dialed in perfectly after I re-took possession of the car. I'm not sure what the hell happened between your shop and Mark, and the resulting horrible tune we got. Maybe he lied and you didn't do it (?). He told us the car was actually at your shop, and I'm sure you can tell the difference between a manual and automatic car.

Not sure if you do business with him, but our experience with your shop (indirectly) is the direct result of information he provided about your shop, and the results are not good at all.

CBM Motorsports

iTrader: (2)

SS MPSTR - I am not 100% sure what all went on in this situation. It could have been our fault, could have been the customers. We have fixed many tunes from a lot of different companies, including CMS. We just don't go putting it out there because we would make a lot of people mad. Like I said before, if there was a problem, it should have been brought up and we would have fixed it. I am glad CMS got it running good but I am sure we would have done the same (for free).

Ryne @ CMS

iTrader: (10)

you guys have fixed our tunes? why are you bringing us into this... did i post anything negative about you? while this has been said i can gladly post multiple files pulled out of pcm's calibrated by your facility and point out all the errors.... can you post up some of mine and point out all the errors? really want to keep slinging mud? sure we are a small shop, but our motto is quality or quantity. A notion lost on a lot of companies

CBM Motorsports

iTrader: (2)

Ryne -

I am sorry if that felt like a shot at you. That is not what it is at all. We have nothing against you guys. This was just a point to SS MPSTR. All tuning shops fix other shops tunes. That is a fact. If he never would have brought up your shop name, then I wouldn't have any reason to say your shop name again. I can bring up at least 10 other shops out there that we have fixed tunes for. If you read my previous post, you would see that I am not going to because it makes people mad! Let me quote what I said "We have fixed many tunes from a lot of different companies, including CMS. We just don't go putting it out there because we would make a lot of people mad." So again, sorry if it seemed like a shot at you, but I was just making a point to SS MPSTR. NO SHOP IS PERFECT!

SS MPSTR

iTrader: (1)

CBM,
Your "point" is noted. However, CBM provided a tuned PCM for a manual LS1 for Harrison Racing that was faulty. After the car was done, Harrison brought the car to you to have the tune fixed at your shop. After I got the car back the tune was still FUCKED! I get that shops make mistakes, but twice? The problem here is that your customer is Harrison - not me. I blame him for many errors on the car, and since CBM provided tuning support for Harrison, CBM gets the blame for the crappy tune that we paid for through Harrison. Am I, as a second party to "professional" services, required to follow up through CBM for poor service? Nope. Your customer (Harrison) threw CBM under the bus. He said you couldn't tune this LS1 (stock head, Lunati 224/228 cam) and that the cam was too wild. I instructed Harrison to have it tuned using this mild cam, which I assumed he did and the automatic parameter tune is what I got. The car started fine but ran like ***** after a few minutes, among other workmanship issues.

Was this 64 Chevelle on your dyno? Was it at your shop? Harrison told me a lot of things, and I'm not sure he's 100% truthful, although I know he's had off road cars at your shop before so I know he's a customer of yours. I cannot believe that a shop with your supposed caliber would **** a simple tune up so bad (twice) and charge full price for it. I, through Harrison, paid you to tune it twice then CMS to fix it. If you discounted the tuning fee to him, let me know.

I'm ready to pursue legal action against Harrison, and if your invoices are provided in discovery, trust that CBM will be named in a cross-complaint too. If you continue to do business with this guy, consider yourself warned.

Your attempts to defer this as a regular error issue among all shops is laughable, and to make a point to me that this just happens as all shops make mistakes - and insinuate that this is somehow to be expected - is insulting to everyone who pays a shop for work.

John, I don't think you're a bad guy, but I think that you guys are in a bad position. To continue to point out that I need explanation that mistakes with shops happen isn't helping you at all. According to Harrison, CBM tuned this PCM twice. Once without a car, and the second with. Both were wrong and I paid good money after a lot of bad money to rectify it. I realize that this is between Harrison and myself, but you get credit - good or bad - for the tune from Harrison himself.

CBM Motorsports

iTrader: (2)

Mike,

After figuring out exactly what car this was, I did some research. We sold Mark a computer and harness with a base tune to get the car fired up (at a discount). Our base tune was based off of the information we were given about the engine and he was not charged for it. We did see the car back after that, but it was only to get the car to idle better which we did fix. There was no charge for this either. THE CAR WAS NEVER ON OUR DYNO. We haven't seen the car back or even heard from Mark about this issue. Whatever Mark told you, I have no idea what it was. I am sorry for the information you are getting. We did exactly what we were asked and did not hear anything from him after. I am sorry that you are angry, but I think you are getting bad facts and taking it out on the wrong people.

SS MPSTR

iTrader: (1)

Thanks - you have corroborated a few things.

So your base tune wouldn't run the car, and when you had the car in your possession to fix the tune, nobody realized that the tune was for an automatic when the car has a manual. You got it to idle but went no further to make sure that the fix you implemented actually made the car drivable. Does that sound about right? You've said you only did what you were told to do, but this car was leaving your shop (with your name associated with the work), wouldn't you make sure it was right? It wouldn't run with your base tune, and you had to tweak it to get it to idle. Is it logical to assume that it runs well through all RPM ranges on the street? I had the car for two minutes and discovered something was really wrong with the tune. I'm an architect, not a car tuner or shop owner touting to be the worlds leading LS engine builder. Mistakes do happen, I understand, but this is negligence (or incompetence - you choose) and was completely avoidable had CBM been thorough. A few minutes to drive it around the block or strap it to the dyno for a few pulls would have revealed a serious tuning issue immediately.

BTW - we got no discount from Harrison Racing on anything. I paid full price and I think I deserve full service. Fixing an idle issue (in a PCM you provided a base tune for) without checking drive-ability in a PCM with an auto tune in a manual car, doesn't sound like great (or competent) service to me. As far as taking this out on the wrong people...I don't think so. Who do you think I should be taking this out on? Harrison Racing didn't tune this car, CBM did - twice. The first clue that there was a problematic issue with the tune is when the car wouldn't run on your base tune at all. Stock PCM's can run this mild cam combo without effort - enough to get them to the dyno for proper calibration.

Harrison Racing sounds like they should really have issue with CBM too.

CBM Motorsports

iTrader: (2)

I think you are missing my point. You keep talking about how bad this tune was. The customer never paid for a tune! Shops don't tune for free! If they did, they wouldn't last very long. We were kind enough to slap in a tune so that the car would fire, idle, and be able to be moved. When the car left here, it started up, idled and moved on its own power. We did this all for free to go above and beyond. I am not the tuner here so I can't answer your question about the auto tune but I do know that the car will run fine being a manual with an auto tune. It will set a check engine light and that is about it. As far as I know, Harrison Racing was perfectly happy with the service they got from us because they got more then they asked for, for free! Bottom line is, if a dyno tune was paid for and actually done, I would 100% agree with you. But instead, we slap a tune in so that the car will start and move (for free) and we are now getting bashed for a bad tune. Doing something for free that shouldn't be = getting bashed.

SS MPSTR

iTrader: (1)

You're getting bashed because Harrison told us you tuned it, and you did. The car was to be road worthy as part of our agreement with him, which includes running for longer than 5 minutes without fouling plugs, sputtering, loading up and setting a hundred codes. Whether you were paid for a "tune", or provided a "tune" for it to run is a matter of semantics to me. You assumed responsibility for altering the PCM and the "tune" you provided - twice - was faulty, and both times with the wrong operating system. According to Harrison, CBM tuned it and deemed it done.

I'm not sure what's worse; that you think that there is no appreciable drive-ability issues or differences between a manual tune and an auto tune (the OS are different!) or that because you claimed to have provided a tune to Harrison for free should somehow exonerate all culpability for tweaking a PCM that would not allow the car to run any further than to load back onto a trailer. Did you guys actually think Harrison was going to tune this car to get it beyond it basically idling? Based on how much fuel was being dumped. the start up and idle alone should have revealed a big problem to a shop that tunes cars.

I understand that my frustration is with the service by Harrison, but what "service" you provided in this equation was simply irresponsible, bordering on negligence. This car is a street legal diver, not a race car, and since your customer is Harrison, you know he cannot tune a PCM - he brought you the car to have the first tune you sold with the PCM fixed. To send him off with enough to only have the car idle (poorly) was just wrong.

CBM Motorsports

iTrader: (2)

I am going to leave this with one last comment. I do not have time to keep going back to this thread and try to explain something to you that you are not understanding. WE DID NOT TUNE THE CAR. You saying we did is wrong. If Harrison wanted a DYNO TUNE, then he should have asked. We are not mind readers. For all we know, he could have brought it back for a final tune after the car was 100% finished. If it was his plan to run the car on the street off the base tune, we did not know and would never say to do it. Yes the base calibration ran bad. That is what a base calibration is. It is a good place to start. It is a tune that will run the car but in no way is a complete tune. You cannot properly tune a car unless it is on a chassis dyno.

We went above and beyond to make the car run for free as a curtsy so that no one would have to push the car around a shop or winch it on a trailer. A base tune is not the same as a dyno tune. That is it.

cntrmnt02ss

iTrader: (2)

From a member of the industry's perspective, isnt it a bummer that being nice and helping people out always comes back and bites you in the ***? Because of people crying like this good shops catch a bad rap and either go under or get called ******** who overcharge and don't respond to emails. From a customers perspective it sucks to have to wait 3 months on a tuners waiting list then shell out 2 grand for dyno time. Buts that's the world the cry babies created. End of rant lol

SS MPSTR

iTrader: (1)

That's the part you don't get. The base calibration (a tune) was fundamentally wrong. That car has such a mild cam in it that it would run fine with the correct OS and factory tune. CBM couldn't even get that right; what confidence does that inspire in anyone that you can actually dyno tune a real high performance engine? You don't know enough to recognize that there are differences between an auto tune and one for a manual? Sorry , but even as a calibration starting point, people who actually know how to tune say it isn't.

You did not have to be a mind reader to know that this car was brought to you because it wouldn't turn over at all with the calibration you provided when you sold the PCM to Harrison. So you slap another calibration in it - now it idles, as a courtesy or not, but it's still wrong. And spare me the lesson on dyno tuning - I never said anything about dyno tuning. I have more than a couple of hot street cars, and trust that I grasp the concept of the importance of tuning on a dyno for optimization. The point here is that any mail order tuner could have gotten a base calibration tune better than what we got. Your position isn't even defensible.

CBM is getting the blame due to a faulty base tune that caused a ton of problems, and more money to rectify. I don't care that you didn't charge Harrison for this "courtesy". This doesn't change the fact that CBM performed faulty work on the car. It certainly wasn't a courtesy to me, the final customer in this chain of poor service.

SS MPSTR

iTrader: (1)

Do you even have a dog in this fight? This is a customers perspective; the service sucked and the "courtesy" cost me a lot more money and time to fix.

Complaining about bad service results in a 3 month wait and $2k dyno tune time? I'd be pissed too. I don't think I have $2k in dyno tuning time in all my cars combined.

Burken01

iTrader: (88)

It sounds like this Harrison fellow is to blame for this..

He gave you your car back with a base tune on it and that's it.. His fault right there since he's the builder and signed off on it.

Nearly every tuner that does base tunes do not offer support on the tune (data logs etc) to fine tune it since that's labor and therefore more money..