BlownGP

My dad is looking at this car
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...59298496&Log=0

To me I think 23K is a little high, but really what should he offer?

NC01TA

I have a feeling CA prices are a bit higher than elsewhere. If the Carfax is clean, the car is a 'stock' one owner, was garage kept, and is in excellent condition, I would offer up to $20k for it. If the above criteria is not accurate, then lower. It's all in the details and none are provided in the ad. Are the tires original? That's $800+ right there for a new set. Has the coolant been changed or the brake fluid? That's another $200 at your local dealer. At 12 years they should have been changed. Lots of questions and it all affects the price and your dad's negotiations. If everything completely checks out, w/ quality rubber on the car, then try for that $20k offer. Test the waters at $18,000 or $19,000 first. They are NOT insulting prices from a serious buyer. If the seller turns it down, see what his counter is. He should come down to $21,000 at the very least and then that is up to your dad. I wouldn't lose the car over $1,000 if everything was perfect. These cars aren't flying off the shelves at $20k prices even though the car did sticker at $36,000 when new. Best of luck!

BlownGP

Thanks for the info..

I'm not in California so I unfortunately can't go look at it.

He though went and test drove it last night. He said it is flawless. Everything was clean, motor was spotless. That's a good tip on the coolant. I told him we would need to change all the fluids, but forgot about he coolant. Dexcool can be crap sometimes.

Tires are newer with lots of tread. F1s on the front and Nitto's on the rear.

He talked him down to 21.5K.
KBB says 18.3K, but I know that's not the bible. I said see if he will take 20K

Prices are kinda all over the place. I've come across some with similar miles for a little less then 23K. A few almost 30K.
Then you jump up to 30,000-40,000 miles and you can pick one up for 15-16K.. hahaah

He's had a Tran Am before. Bought a new NBM vert back in 98, but totaled it in 2009 getting on to a on-ramp in the rain. Slide right into a pole....

So, he's getting that itch,lol. He's on the fence on weather to get another T/A or a new Mustang or Camaro. The only thing holding him back on the T/A is it being 12 years old..

NC01TA

Very close on the price. Again, maybe CA is a bit higher.
I really dislike mismatched tires. If it doesn't bother your dad, that's up to him. Ref the 12 year old age of the car, age doesn't mean as much on the pampered F-bodies. When maintained well and garage kept they can be almost as good as a car that is just a few years old. I have 40k miles on mine right now and I'm headed on a 2,000 miles road trip this summer. Not the slightest bit concerned as I know everything has been maintained right. Anything can happen on a 12 year old car but the same holds true on a 2 year old car with 40,000 miles on it. Age is just one factor of many.

Firebrian

Even $21K is sorta high on this car. Connecticut must be cheaper because I was offered a 2-owner 2001 WS6 vert in NBM with 12K miles 2 years ago for $17,500. I just couldn't swing it w/o selling one of my cars first. While sub 20K miles 2002's aren't probably available for under $20K all that often, they are out there. California seems to have its share of WS6's though. I don't think anyone will be breaking this seller's door down at $21K as the buyer's pool for an automatic tends to be people over 45-50 with all cash (everyone else wants a 6 speed). It still hasn't been advertised all that long for seller to experience a boat load of tires kickers and offers well under $20K. Duffy's, one of the ultimate retailers has had one of these with <1K miles on Ebay for the past 1-2 months. They are looking for upper $20's and I don't think it's gotten past $25K on any of the auctions posted so far. There's a hefty price difference between 1K miles vs. 15K miles....even if the price guides don't show it. KBB at $18.3 is quite low and you'd have to be fortunate to run into one of these that cheap (assuming you aren't a car dealership and one shows up for trade in).

There's a red one with 1700 miles in the auto trader link below for $22,900. That car would be a no brainer at that price vs. the 15K mile one at $21.5K. And that's being sold by a dealer which means probably buyable at $22,000 or even less. Once these cars pass the 20K mile threshold they enter a different status of use.

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/Convertible/Pontiac/Firebird/Trabuco+Canyon+CA-92679?endYear=2002&makeCode1=PONT&maxMileage=30000 &minPrice=14000&mmt=[PONT[FBIRD[FBIRD|Trans+Am]][]]&modelCode1=FBIRD&searchRadius=0&showcaseOwnerId=0 &startYear=1998&vehicleStyleCodes=CONVERT&Log=0&ca ptureSearch=true&fromSIP=5DF0524D7C84712E1337EB134 54D4D93&showToolbar=true&Log=0

NC01TA

I sure hope the OP sees that link. Appears to be a 'new' car. If I needed to replace mine I'd be all over that.

Firebrian

The only downside is having to spend $1,000 to transport as well as having someone you can trust to inspect it for you. The ultra- low mile cars have their own issues too. I'd rather shoot for a car in the 5K to 15K mile range that was driven "enough" to minimize sitting problems. Or better yet, a lower mileage car that just went through its first set of tires, AC and brake repairs, window and headlight motors, and all major fluid changes. That will save you $2K or more. But, you can't control the price the seller is asking. This dealer with the 1700 mile car is going to want to sell it before the fall hits and buyers drift away....especially in Wisconsin. That Calif vert probably has nice weather almost year round and convertible buyers don't necessarily disappear for months at a time as they do in northern winter climates.

As much as I hate to admit it, the most critical factor is the car being close enough for you to see it. Most long distance purchases tend to fall apart just because of logistics and time. The "bird in the hand" thing. Still, don't get infatuated with the first nice car you see. You'd be surprised at what becomes available in the months following an emotional purchase. The exact car I was looking for became available 6 months after I settled for something not quite what I wanted (ie the seller lowered their price from $19K to $17.5K after a year). While these cars don't grow on trees, there are plenty of nice examples out there....90% of them not selling because the sellers have yet to lower their prices to where the market is at.

NC01TA

Sorry Firebrian, I travel to get my cars and would never transport one. I rarely advise anyone to buy 'sight unseen'. If you do your homework thoroughly in advance you do not waste the trip. Dozens of photos, several conversations with the seller, Carfax, etc... work 9 times out of 10. They have for me and my local car club members. We have wasted only one trip out of many so far. Oh well, gas $$, fast food and a cheap motel. Big deal. Good sellers work with you. I certainly work with buyers when the shoe is on the other foot. You ignore the 'posers' or sellers that won't cooperate. My last two purchases were 500 miles away each and I was able to 'dicker' in person after seeing the flaws (which always exist). Cash talks and most owners don't let you walk away with hundreds of dollars in your hands in their driveway. Forget about someone inspecting the car for you. Everyone's eyes are different, even the so called 'pros'. The further negotiations in person negates the travel expenses. You have to make the effort to get a special car.The ride home in your new ride is priceless!!

Firebrian

I've gone to see probably close to 100 collector cars in the 1991-2004 period. And that was after weeding out 9X as many on detailed conversations over the phone with sellers plus photos as well. Some of those calls lasted 1-2 hours. Of those 100 cars only about 10% were as described by the sellers following those detailed calls. After years of doing that I knew the right questions to ask. And that still didn't stop the sellers from not answering them 100% honestly. And of those 10 or so cars I did end up buying, I probably couldn't have bought ANY of them if I tried to dicker them down in price....as they were the right cars at fair money, or I wouldn't have traveled to see them in the first place. I agree that sight-unseen is a bad idea that usually doesn't work so well. Someone you trust has to see the car and drive it.

I agree that everyone's eyes are different. But the several times I have used other people's eyes to check out a car for me, they were pretty much on the money. Using other advanced collectors or pros can work. I'd be more inclined to transport a car back from outside 500 miles than to drive it. I've done 2 transports of 1200 and 2000 miles. Both worked out fine. Way too much risk on a drive back of that length. Any car I've traveled more than 200 miles to see there were no negotiations that canceled out the expense of the trip. I guess I never ran into a desperate enough seller. The seller knows you just traveled hours to see their car and they know you want it badly or you wouldn't be there. Only once have I gone to see a car that was nicer than I expected. These days I'm very leery of traveling more than 100-150 miles to see a car. My days of 700 mile drives to see a bag of worms (that had great photos by the way) are long gone. I'd bet I've logged 10,000-20,000 miles checking out cars back in my peak years. I could write a book on all the stuff I had to put up with. For the most part, if the car was what I expected, I paid the last price asked. But that happened so rarely. Out of those 100 or so trips I drove home disappointed on 90 of them knowing the cars weren't up to snuff...and negotiating for less money wasn't going to make the cars better. What if you hear a engine, transmission, or rear end noise that doesn't sound right?.....something the long distance owner didn't think was important or didn't notice? Are you going to be satisfied taking that car home even at a reduced price?

On one car I was very interested in (paid $250 for a professional inspection as the car was 3,000 miles away) was a good deal at the asking price. But, I already knew that from the photos and just needed confirmation of a test drive, check of the original paint, and engine/body serial numbers. After the pro checked out the car the seller told me other people were interested in it. He then told me I had to bid higher. Fat chance of that happening. Negotiating "lower" on that car wasn't an option. Of the best cars I have bought over the years, the sellers were not willing to drop a single dollar to sell the car. And I took the same stance on my best cars when it was time to sell. I've come close to tossing people out on their ears who wanted to dicker for $50-$100 at the last minute. The best car I ever bought I tried for $500 lower ($19,000 ask) and literally drove away. 10 min later I came to my senses and said the price was fair and I'd take it for $19K. Good thing they didn't raise the price. That car was an incredible deal for the time at $19K though I didn't yet know it. 11 years later it was worth $90K in basically the same condition.

California to Wisconsin for that 1700 mile vert is a lengthy trip. I know I wouldn't bother. I'd wait for something closer and priced right. There are lots of different experiences in how to go about buying cars.

NC01TA

I have no problem with your approach. You have yours and I have mine. Just not on the same wavelength with travel. I look forward to it and I have had success. Totally agree about the 10% that don't describe accurately. Maybe even that percentage is high. That is how I dicker in person. They know I'll leave. Haven't had the experiences with the hard asses that don't budge. I usually weed that out in the phone calls. I can tell anyway.
Personalities are part of the mix too in how you are 'face to face' with the sellers. I guess I'm fortunate. I have yet to pay a full asking price.
** Just a quick story about my Aero from a few years back to explain my feelings about buying 'sight unseen'. After many months of negotiations and phone calls we agreed upon a price. Knocked $1,500 off his initial price as he was selling over the holiday season (big mistake). He wanted to know who would be coming to transport the car to me in NC. He lived in Pittsburgh. My wife and I would come up in the T/A with 4 new tires in tow so I could drive the car home (my long time tire dealer said I could return the tires if I didn't buy the car). Not about to drive on the interstate with 20+ year old rubber. Upon arrival the car was sweet but a test drive was certainly in order. This car was basically in storage the past 5 years. The entire a/c system was shot! The seller (an older guy) honestly didn't know as he never used it. He thought it would work fine. The front bumper was also messed up due to the front license plate he had on the car. Couldn't see that in the photos. Our 'agreed upon' phone price was now unacceptable and I told him "thanks, but not interested". We then negotiated down another full $1,000. Now imagine if I had that car transported down to me for $1,000 (covered transport) and then discovered the issues. That would have been $2,000 out of my pocket for the transport and subsequent repairs. My travel costs to Pittsburgh and back? Less than $500 for gas, food, motel. Ended on the plus side for $1,500 which I could put right into the car. Chicken feed to some, but important to us.

BlownGP

Well what to say....

Oh. My dad bought it.. $20,500!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And yes I did see that other red one with 1000 miles but my dad isn't keen on buying a car un-seen and doesn't want one that bad that he would go fly and see it.
Then like you said getting it shipped here can be scary. I had RAM I bought last year shipped to me, but it wasn't across the country. lol

From my research cars or a little more expensive in California but if you know California everything cost more than anywhere else. Just looking at prices on auto trader it's in line with them. Most are around 22-23K with low miles like this one.

This car is literally right around the corner. So that was a big selling point. I sent him other cars not just trans for sale in different states and he wanted something in California or he was going hold off on buying a car.. Not only that I think it cost a little more to get a car registered in California.

This would be a nice buy
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Grandma-039-s-2002-PontiacTrans-Am-Convertible-/181407182177?nma=true&si=O8FvDzc9eafEGRPHIy1ASRqxv7U%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Anyways, can't wait to see it when I come visit in August. Going to be doing a few mods also..

Thanks again for your help guys.

NC01TA

You are more than welcome! Congrats to your Dad.
Sounds like he negotiated right into that comfortable price range we talked about.