1998 Firebird WS6 - 13k Original Miles - Page 2 - LS1TECH



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1998 Firebird WS6 - 13k Original Miles

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Old 11-14-2016, 03:02 AM   #21
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Buying and selling enthusiast cars follows what the market commands... supply and demand.
I agree.

And with that in mind, there is NO justification for expecting original MSRP out of a garden variety '98 WS6 T/A, nice as it may be, with 5-digit mileage. Reason being, the market contains a supply of comparable cars for thousands less. Supply/demand does not support $30k for this car.

But they are a dealer, I'm sure they know this. So the car is either being used as eye candy, or they're hoping that asking such an inflated price will be more likely to yield base offers in the $18-20k range vs. pricing the car fairly in the first place. That way, a buyer feels like he's getting a great deal when he can talk the dealer down by ~$10k or so. This, however, fails to consider all the buyers who will be scared off by such an unrealistic price with which to begin.
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Old 11-14-2016, 01:10 PM   #22
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... So the car is either being used as eye candy, or they're hoping that asking such an inflated price will be more likely to yield base offers in the $18-20k range vs. pricing the car fairly in the first place. That way, a buyer feels like he's getting a great deal when he can talk the dealer down by ~$10k or so. This, however, fails to consider all the buyers who will be scared off by such an unrealistic price with which to begin.
Count me in the "scared" away group. No way would I want to contribute to such a dealer's livelihood, even if they eventually came down in price to what it was actually worth. There are always other cars to buy. The market has a way of always pointing you towards a better deal...even when you think the deal of a lifetime just got away from you.

Would love to know what this dealer paid for the car as a "favor to a friend." I have a gut feeling that friendship would be severely tested if the truth came out. I just find it comical that BlackRidge chose to come here to ask "what it's worth" when they likely had the notion to ask $29K from the start. The damage has been done. This car will likely sell for way too much money to someone who experiences love at first sight....and any associated dealer hype. You can buy a 400 hp 2001/2002 Z06 Vette with 25K miles for lower $20's.

Fwiw, in Nov 2011 I walked away from a black 2000 WS6 MS6 with 14K miles from a Connecticut Ford dealer...ask price was mid to upper $16K's. I felt it was worth $16K tops, preferably $15,500 (that was based on a similar condition 1999 SS M6 with 12K miles going for $12K at that time....I ended up buying that). I also passed on a 28K mile Pewter 2000 Firehawk Formula M6 locally for $12K, one of 4-6 built in that color. And that car had been on Ebay 3X not being able to find a buyer in the $12K-$13K range.

That 2000 black WS6 looked excellent and drove perfect. 100% unmodded on barely worn orig rubber. Out of the dozen or so cars I looked at to buy at the time, it was the only completely untouched and unmodified car. The sun shades were still in the wrappers. The quiet transmission/clutch didn't make even the slightest noise. That was one good M6. The only nit was a slow moving driver's window which the dealer ship said they would fix. And it sat on the dealer's lot late summer through the following spring. Owner had passed away and the daughter sold it to the dealer. I figured the guy must have been in his 50's when he bought it. So now it's 5 years later....what's that exact same car worth today if still in identical condition and mileage? I don't think it's worth more.

Last edited by Firebrian; 11-14-2016 at 01:26 PM.
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Old 11-14-2016, 01:51 PM   #23
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Count me in the "scared" away group. No way would I want to contribute to such a dealer's livelihood, even if they eventually came down in price to what it was actually worth. There are always other cars to buy. The market has a way of always pointing you towards a better deal...even when you think the deal of a lifetime just got away from you.
I definitely agree. Whether offered by a dealer or private party, I have a personal policy of "no contact" with sellers who are this far off in dream land with the value they have assigned to a given car. Just not worth it, especially when a quick, almost no effort search, reveals comparable cars at such a lower price point. It took me all of 3 minutes to find this one:

http://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/ctd/5853382906.html

Same general options and mileage, less desirable color but more desirable model year. Also located at a dealer, but for $9k less to start. Sure, it needs a bit more engine bay detailing than the OP's car but I don't think that's worth an extra $9k. And again, it took me 3 minutes to find this better deal, it was the first one that popped up on my local CL page with under 20k miles. If I did more searching across multiple sites and greater distance I'm sure I could find several others.
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Old 11-15-2016, 12:41 AM   #24
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That's a 2002 too. They bring at least $3K more than a 1998. And that light coating of dust and dirt in the engine bay is fine. I'd almost prefer an original owner never touching the engine bay so I get it as is, and pristine. In fact when I bought my 1999 with 12K miles it looked just like that 2002. My orig owner never dusted the engine bay either. It took me a few hours to clean up all the nooks and crannies in the engine bay. No big deal. Sometimes you can do more damage by constant cleanings. And doing one thorough cleaning of the entire car will show you all the flaws as well. At least, that's my experiences. I detailed my engine bay fully back in 2012 when I bought the car...and never since. A couple of very light 10-15 min. wipe downs every so often with a wet cloth, but that's it. It's stayed clean for the past 4 years. If it's ever time to sell it....then I'll fully detail the car again.

I've often told people if you want to know what a car is really like, tell the owner you'd like to spend 2-3 hours washing, waxing, cleaning and detailing it for them. You'll find the flaws believe me. But, only do this on cars you are sure you are ready to buy based on an "uncleaned" inspection. Sometimes you'll find post mfg paint touch ups you never saw before as it takes just the right light and angle on your back or side cleaning rockers, fenders, and quarter panels.

Last edited by Firebrian; 11-15-2016 at 02:08 PM.
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Old 11-16-2016, 01:42 AM   #25
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My orig owner never dusted the engine bay either. It took me a few hours to clean up all the nooks and crannies in the engine bay. No big deal. Sometimes you can do more damage by constant cleanings. And doing one thorough cleaning of the entire car will show you all the flaws as well. At least, that's my experiences. I detailed my engine bay fully back in 2012 when I bought the car...and never since. A couple of very light 10-15 min. wipe downs every so often with a wet cloth, but that's it. It's stayed clean for the past 4 years. If it's ever time to sell it....then I'll fully detail the car again.
Mine also came to me with an engine bay that was dustier than I ever would have allowed to happen myself. I planned on competitive showings, so a full and proper detailing was necessary. As long as it's not years of caked on grime and corrosion, the cleanup isn't too bad. Dish soap diluted in distilled water and a soft paint brush works wonders in this application. Simple Green is a better choice if the dirt and grime is more significant. GM engine bay paint of this era isn't spectacular, and will thin with frequent waxing; I've only waxed mine three times in the last 12 years, but it gets a light dusting with a soft towel and a leaf blower after every drive. As for the non-painted engine bay surfaces, such as rubber & plastics, I hit those annually with 303 Protectant.

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Originally Posted by Firebrian View Post
I've often told people if you want to know what a car is really like, tell the owner you'd like to spend 2-3 hours washing, waxing, cleaning and detailing it for them. You'll find the flaws believe me. But, only do this on cars you are sure you are ready to buy based on an "uncleaned" inspection. Sometimes you'll find post mfg paint touch ups you never saw before as it takes just the right light and angle on your back or side cleaning rockers, fenders, and quarter panels.
I've never done that before buying a car, but I agree that you will always find new blemishes/issues during the first major cleanup - no matter how closely you inspected the car during the purchase, even if you are super detail oriented and know the vehicle platform inside and out.
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Old 01-25-2017, 05:45 PM   #26
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I saw this car for sale from a different dealer before you purchased it, i believe they were asking 19k.
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Old 01-25-2017, 06:08 PM   #27
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I'll tell you what BlackBridge. The market ain't $29K.

A single post from these guys and they disappeared. That should have been the 2nd clue. Laziness has risen to new heights.
The enthusiast market and the general market for some marques or individual makes can be quite different. I was simply trying to figure out if guys who collect and have forgotten more about these cars than I'll ever know may find some value in a car that skews towards collector grade. Turns out that is not the case and that's totally fine. No reason you can't hope to print a new high price on the off chance you catch valuations rising at the right time or find someone who's been looking for a particular vehicle. After all, the price point, even at full ask, is still very obtainable for most classic car collectors.
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Old 01-25-2017, 07:14 PM   #28
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No reason you can't hope to print a new high price on the off chance you catch valuations rising at the right time or find someone who's been looking for a particular vehicle. After all, the price point, even at full ask, is still very obtainable for most classic car collectors.
I think that's what we call a "fishing" expedition. These cars don't magically get subjected to rising valuations at the "right time." It sure isn't the summer of 2006 or 2007 any more. These F bodies saw a very small rally from 2011-2015. And since then have quieted down again, more likely declining in price since then, especially with all the new 400+ hp models coming to the market year after year. Nothing around here changes in just a few months. If full "ask" of $29K is your reasonable price point, we might not see that in 15 years, probably not ever. To get there would mean getting rid of the many thousands of low mileage cars that are still around. The availability of these cars with under 15K miles is fairly high. They show up all the time. All you need is $13K-$20K in cash to buy one and the willingness to fly in and drive one home....or hire a car carrier for $500-$2,000.

At least you made it back to your own thread after 3 months. When I put up a thread I expect to have to come back from time to time to see who responds, comment, thank people for their insights, etc. Disappearing on one's own WIW thread is quite rude imo. But we do get those from time to time.

Last edited by Firebrian; 01-25-2017 at 07:21 PM.
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