iroadrocket

I have a brand new 1997 Camaro Z28 1LE with 107 miles on it. It still has the Window Sticker in the window.

It is Red with Gray interior, 1 of 48 1LE’s, 6 Speed, Chrome wheels with CD. I bought it new from Young Chevrolet and have all documentation, including the Build Sheet.

All 1997 1LE’s came with AC and Tilt Steering wheel. I have approximately twelve Camaro’s including two of the four 1988 IROC 1LE’s, a Teal 1991 B4C with Gray Leather, the 1993 Red LG MotorSport 1LE (Lou Gigliotti’s 1 of 19), and various First Gen Camaro’s.

I’m thinking about selling some of my collection and would like your feedback on that you think the New 1997 1LE is worth.

OKSS

You will have a lot of people (I'm guessing) not consider the car because it is not T-tops, but as some will know(and it may not hurt to put it in your ad), that was not an option with the 1LE package.

That being said, to a collector of 4th gen. Camaro's, this is a $18k car any day of the week and for someone looking specifically for a 1LE, even more, IMO. The only bad thing (for you), is that the price of the vehicle may skyrocket in 10 or 15 years when the collectability of the generation becomes more clear.

All in all, a BEAUTIFUL car and great example of a true time capsule. While it may take a while to sell, a car of this caliber will do so and I have no doubt you will get what you are asking. Also, I would LOVE to see pics of the '91 B4C.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Hard to estimate a value on something like this, as it will depend greatly on who's in the market at the time and how the car is presented (venue, etc.) Auction (Mecum, B-J) might be best for something like this. A few thoughts on the following though...

Probably not the case IMO. The sort of individual who will be considering the price premium associated with a 20+ year old car that only has 100 miles on it will likely not be planning to drive it much (or at all.) Therefore, the lack of an open air driving experience probably won't be a huge consideration, especially to collectors who value the 1LE package.

I don't expect any skyrocketing of 4th gens in general, especially not the LT1 variants. The most collectible of the pre-LS1 4th gens will be the LT4 Camaro SSs and Firehawks (likely to carry a much bigger premium than any other), followed by such packages as Z4C 30th Anniversary SS and Z28, 25th Anniversary T/A, Comp T/A, various Firehawks, various WS6s, pace car Z28s, etc. A 1LE Z28 isn't going to be super high on the list, all else being equal, though in this case the mileage obviously puts this car in a very limited and exclusive group.

I definitely agree here.

Is there an actual ad listed? I didn't notice that the OP had listed a price yet, so I'm not sure that I can agree without knowing what price is being asked.

The closest recent example of which I am aware was a good local friend who was the original owner of a '96 SS, hardtop M6 D82 car with additional SLP options. He sold it a couple years back with 3500 miles on it, in proper #1 condition. It was sold through a local specialty dealer (consignment) and I recall the final sale price being ~$17k. The OP's Z28 is obviously MUCH lower mileage and has the cool factor of being a 1LE car, but in general I wouldn't value it higher than an SS in comparable condition and mileage. Would my friend's '96 SS have brought exponentially higher money with only 100 miles vs. 3500? I don't know, I haven't seen enough examples like this recently to really estimate.

I don't personally believe that the proper dynamics are in place for any of these cars (4th gens) to ever "skyrocket" in value. IMO, if you sold this car today for whatever top dollar might currently be, you'd make a bigger profit investing that money in a more conventional form over the same term vs. holding onto this car for longer and selling later (especially when you consider insurance and any storage costs over that term.)

OKSS

I guess I don't think anyone can predict what these cars will do in 15 years. While I don't think they will achieve the same collectibility status as the first gen. camaro's, I personally think they will appreciate in value between now and 15 years. I don't think think any vehicle will do better as a form of investment than an actual investment in stocks, bonds, etc. since the avid car collector is becoming more rare as time marches on. I'm still of the mindset that the car collecting hobby is dwindling somewhat rapidly. Again, just my opinion.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Not predict with certainty, but an educated guess can be made by looking at several factors. In this case, we can review comparable cars that are 10-15 years older (meaning early-to-mid generation 3rd gens which, for their respective era, share similar dynamics with LT1 4th gens), as well as overall trends in the enthusiast market and the circumstances of these cars within.

Appreciate, yes; skyrocket, no (especially not when adjusted for inflation). Again, looking to a closest-case comparison (meaning the aforementioned early/mid 3rd gens), there has certainly been appreciation over the last 10-15 years, but no massive spike or exponential growth seen in the upper tiers (at least not in my region - Midwest/Great Lakes).

Exactly. With the exception of some opportunities where a quick flip can net you much better returns than a similar conventional investment over the same period, it never makes sense to own a car such as this in the hopes of investment growth/big profit - if that is one's only reason for (or interest in) keeping it, then there is no good reason for keeping it at that point. Better to sell and put that money elsewhere. On the other hand, if you just enjoy collecting them and aren't specifically focused on growth or future returns (minus cost of ownership for the duration) one way or the other, then it's a different matter.

OKSS

The few 3rd gen 1LE's I have seen in quality auction settings (VERY nice, extremely low mileage examples) have brought more than the original MSRP. I'm sure they went to collector of 3rd gen's or 1 LE's. Unfortunately, I don't think there is a huge fanbase at all for that specific body style which may very well be the case for the 4th gen's in 10-15 years since, at least in Oklahoma, there doesn't seem to be much interest in them.


I agree they will appreciate, which is why I said "may" skyrocket in my earlier post. There is a possibility the really nice examples of the special cars may be like the late 70's Trans Am's which have skyrocketed in price in the last 2 years.

Since I have a few really nice examples of 4th gen's, and am looking for a few more, I have deep faith and will keep my fingers crossed the prices do skyrocket!

dojob

You want true value and a potential buyer (maybe)

contact http://www.showtimemotorsports.net/. Ken is the owner and Camaro aficionado.

IMO, though, $20,000 minimum. Super rare in general and mileage encapsulates value even more so

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

When considering value gains based on MSRP from decades prior, one must also consider an inflation adjustment.

The later 3rd gens tend to be more desirable to collectors of such, similar to the generally greater demand of LS1 era examples within the 4th gen realm. I've seen several really nice low mileage early 3rd gens, '82-'87 V8 (both carb'ed and TPI) examples, with mileage between 9k and 50k, listing for $7.5-9.5k in the last year alone - some even at dealers - and none of them moving quickly at those prices. Granted those are not 100 mile cars, but their relatively low price point (with no quick sales) for the mileage/condition indicates no strong collector demand for early 3rd gens even now that they are well into antique status. I think we'll continue to see the same in the 4th gen world (as has already been the case), especially regarding most (but not all) of the early 4th gen/LT1 examples (notable exceptions being some of those already listed above.)

If we were speaking specifically of an LT4 example, or perhaps any Z4C '97 SS car with such low mileage or something like this, I *might* agree. The vast majority of LT1 4th gens are not likely to ever share such a fate so I would caution against false hope of big future gains. Again, if you are collecting them for the pleasure of doing so then more power to you, but if you're looking at this primarily as a growth investment (which it seems you may be, based on having your fingers crossed regarding a skyrocketing value) then I would caution against continuing down such a path.

OKSS

I collect them because I like them and because I am one of the few that prefer to wash the cars and keep them looking brand new just to sit out in my shop drinking a beer then to drive them around. If they go up in price, which is always a possibility with any vehicle, that's just a bonus.

I'm sure the people in the late 60's, 70's and even 80's (GNX and such), never thought just a plain jane Z28, a 2 door Nova, etc. would be worth 10x their MSRP in 30 years. I'm somewhat optimistic, but I certainly know no one can come close to predicting any kind of future.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Then we are actually of a similar mindset. I drive mine no more than about 300-500 miles per year, maintaining their cosmetics at the highest level possible for cars which still see limited street use, and that has nothing to do with worrying about mileage for the sake of value or anything like this, nor does it limit my enjoyment of ownership - my reasons are similar to yours. I buy these cars with expendable cash and don't consider them a bank account, so whether or not they see an increase in value is of no consequence to me.

Some very different dynamics with those '60s/'70s cars (and such super limited production examples as the GNX - which actually hasn't changed much in value since their peak years ago), especially ones with [relatively] rare factory high performance engines such as early Z28s. Not exactly comparable, and not a good indicator of future value of LT1 or even LS1 4th gen F-bodies. We could discuss all those contrasting factors point by point, but it's probably more effort than it's worth. We can certainly revisit this thread in 10-15 years if LS1Tech is still here (which is quite possible, since it's already 16 years old); at that point it will no longer be a prediction.

OKSS

Indeed.

AnotherWs6

iTrader: (17)

Must be fun reaching for the window crank, lol.


Why is there a license plate on it? That thing can't be being driven.

Firebrian

Reaching for a crank is easier than replacing a PW motor and/or regulator.

Makes little to no difference if the car is not driven. And even then, not a big factor, no different than 1960's and 1970's collector cars. The passenger window of my 1999 SS wasn't even lowered once in 2017. Might as well be a crank. Personally, I'd prefer crank windows all around in 3rd and 4th gens. The hardtop doesn't bother me either. My '98 Z28 daily driver (8 years) was a HT. Never once thought I was a missing anything without TTops....even though my two LT-1 Trans Ams both had them.

As far as LT1 vs. a late 1970's Trans Am as collectibles, a lot depends on getting your car into a movie or TV show. Smokey and the Bandit, Don Johnson's TV show with '71 Cuda's, Transformers with various gens of Camaro's, '68 Charger and Mustang in Bullit, Buick Grand Nationals in many movies, etc. Old '68-'70 Chargers keep showing up movies (last I saw was Nick Cage's Drive Angry)....and a '71 Chevelle SS in that one too. It's a challenge to feature a 1993-2002 Camaro in a movie/TV series. The distinctive styling of the 1970's Trans Ams and the Fire Chickens is far different than anything that has popped up since on a Camaro.

Things would have turned out a lot different if the horse power wars from 1992-2017 didn't occur. The killing of performance cars from around 1972-1991 was one of the big factors in pushing up the demand/prices of the 1960's and 1970's muscle cars. Such a factor didn't occur this last time around.

The prices of most 2000-2002 GMMG cars hasn't exceeded their MSRP's. They have depreciated down along with everything else. A collector rise in 4th gen pricing ought to occur with those cars first. For instance a 1900 mile, 1-owner 2002 ZL1, phase 2- 475 hp, Camaro Supercar sold for $38,600 earlier this year in a non-reserve/estate sale - Ebay auction. That's a pretty elite car too. I agree with RPM WS6 that the LT4's could be the best of the '93-'97 era. I'm a fan of the very distinctive white/orange stripe 1997 anniversary cars - and an LT4 in them doesn't hurt.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/special-e...o-reserve.html

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Exactly correct. This is one of the primary factors I was referring to above when I mentioned that the dynamics were very different. Lack of any watershed moment of sustained and widespread performance loss immediately after their era has left the 4th gens as just another footnote in the history of performance vehicles (especially the LT1/'93-'97 variants) - unlike the solid legend of '60s and early '70s muscle that endured for over a decade before things started to improve again. Another major factor is the lack of any rare/special upgrade high performance engines (exception being the LT4 mentioned earlier.) All of these [V8] 4th gen F-bodies perform generally the same for a given model year; special stripes/graphics and suspension packages just don't carry the same mystique as an exclusive factory high performance engine under the hood. 10s of thousands of Gen II LT1s were put into service in every '93-'97 Z28/Formula/TA/WS6 and all but a handful of SSs and Firehawks - they all perform about the same, and performance only got better with the LS1 update and beyond.

There are several other factors to consider as well but, again, probably no point in going over them one by one. But the two above are big ones.

OKSS

The current HP wars are killing all but the 600hp+ GMMG cars. I'll still maintain my optimism that ultra clean, super low mileage examples of 4th gen.'s will appreciate in the future.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Very likely, yes. But by how much will they outpace inflation and cost of ownership? That's the most important question if looking at any of these as an investment.

However I feel confident that there won't be any skyrocketing, assuming we define this term similarly, especially not of examples that are anything less than the most desirably optioned vehicles (such as some of the more significantly rare/unique ones mentioned earlier.)

bluestreak98

iTrader: (21)

Not here to give a guesstimate on price, but that is a beautiful car. I hope you get top dollar for it!

OKSS

Cost of ownership is negligible (for me). Mine that I do not drive and am keeping in hopes of making a bit of money selling them eventually only get started up 4 or 5 times a year and only receive an oil/filter change once a year. I do not keep insurance or tags on them. Yeah, if a tornado rips through my shop i'm out major $$$$, but that's the chance I knowingly take.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

I would think you are the exception then. In my experience, most folks collecting any sort of cars with an eye towards investment purposes, and/or with the hope of big future gains, have some proper insurance on said vehicles. So, for most, that's a cost to be considered.

OKSS

Alot of what I do when it comes to vehicles is out of the norm but has served me well.