Trying to clear up Weld grinding/spacer/stud questions
08-20-2005, 01:46 AM
#1
Trying to clear up Weld grinding/spacer/stud questions After doing many searches, I still haven't found concrete answers on the questions I have. So if someone could clarify a few issues, that'd be awesome.
1. For 15x3.5 & 15x10 Prostars, are spacers absolutely needed? I want these tires to tuck as well as possible, so could I grind enough to not use spacers?
2. Are longer studs needed if I DON'T use spacers? I don't see why they would.
3. What lugs work if longer studs and spacers aren't used? Will the stock style work or do you have to go to open-end? Are there any open-end that don't rust like some that I've seen on some Welds?
1. For 15x3.5 & 15x10 Prostars, are spacers absolutely needed? I want these tires to tuck as well as possible, so could I grind enough to not use spacers?
2. Are longer studs needed if I DON'T use spacers? I don't see why they would.
3. What lugs work if longer studs and spacers aren't used? Will the stock style work or do you have to go to open-end? Are there any open-end that don't rust like some that I've seen on some Welds?
08-20-2005, 08:06 AM
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If you don't mind grinding, no spacers are nessesary. You will still more than likley need longer studs in the front to be IHRA/NHRA legal.
Check out McGuard and Excalibur SS/T style lugs.
Check out McGuard and Excalibur SS/T style lugs.
08-20-2005, 09:04 AM
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Stay away from the Weld lugnuts. They rust like crazy. If you grind and don't use spacers, the stock studs are fine. I got over 10 turns of the lugnuts on mine. You'll have to use open ended lugnuts if you put longer studs in.
08-20-2005, 06:50 PM
#4
To pass tech, you need a min of 2.5" studs, with spacers, 3". Anything shorter is dangerous. The stock stud dosen't come close to passing through the wheel.
Without spacers, you need to grind quite a bit...more then I certainly would feel comfortable using. You are putting at risk the integrity of the calipers strength. GM engineers would have designed them thinner if they felt there was still a significant factor of safety. They are not in the market to overdesign a component since the bottom dollar and safety considerations are important.
The weld economy line of wheels are a good choice if the bottom line of your decision is how much you want to spend. They do not retain any high finish qualities. The design is meant for the low-budget racer whom is looking for a low-priced wheel. You'd need to step up to their high-end wheels if you want a better finished-higher quality high-end wheel.
If your decision is based on appearance,fitment and weight considerations, our Bogart wheels are your best choice. I recall you posting interest a few days ago in our line and wanted pictures. We have a few new ones listed right in our customer gallery.
Good luck with your choices.
Steve
Without spacers, you need to grind quite a bit...more then I certainly would feel comfortable using. You are putting at risk the integrity of the calipers strength. GM engineers would have designed them thinner if they felt there was still a significant factor of safety. They are not in the market to overdesign a component since the bottom dollar and safety considerations are important.
The weld economy line of wheels are a good choice if the bottom line of your decision is how much you want to spend. They do not retain any high finish qualities. The design is meant for the low-budget racer whom is looking for a low-priced wheel. You'd need to step up to their high-end wheels if you want a better finished-higher quality high-end wheel.
If your decision is based on appearance,fitment and weight considerations, our Bogart wheels are your best choice. I recall you posting interest a few days ago in our line and wanted pictures. We have a few new ones listed right in our customer gallery.
Good luck with your choices.
Steve
08-20-2005, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by steve10
To pass tech, you need a min of 2.5" studs, with spacers, 3". Anything shorter is dangerous. The stock stud dosen't come close to passing through the wheel.
Without spacers, you need to grind quite a bit...more then I certainly would feel comfortable using. You are putting at risk the integrity of the calipers strength. GM engineers would have designed them thinner if they felt there was still a significant factor of safety. They are not in the market to overdesign a component since the bottom dollar and safety considerations are important.
The weld economy line of wheels are a good choice if the bottom line of your decision is how much you want to spend. They do not retain any high finish qualities. The design is meant for the low-budget racer whom is looking for a low-priced wheel. You'd need to step up to their high-end wheels if you want a better finished-higher quality high-end wheel.
If your decision is based on appearance,fitment and weight considerations, our Bogart wheels are your best choice. I recall you posting interest a few days ago in our line and wanted pictures. We have a few new ones listed right in our customer gallery.
Good luck with your choices.
Steve
Without spacers, you need to grind quite a bit...more then I certainly would feel comfortable using. You are putting at risk the integrity of the calipers strength. GM engineers would have designed them thinner if they felt there was still a significant factor of safety. They are not in the market to overdesign a component since the bottom dollar and safety considerations are important.
The weld economy line of wheels are a good choice if the bottom line of your decision is how much you want to spend. They do not retain any high finish qualities. The design is meant for the low-budget racer whom is looking for a low-priced wheel. You'd need to step up to their high-end wheels if you want a better finished-higher quality high-end wheel.
If your decision is based on appearance,fitment and weight considerations, our Bogart wheels are your best choice. I recall you posting interest a few days ago in our line and wanted pictures. We have a few new ones listed right in our customer gallery.
Good luck with your choices.
Steve
I'm in no way trying to start an argument, but I'm sure that they know what they're buying when they get Welds rather than Bogarts. Not everyone has $1500 to drop on wheels just for track duty.
Like I said no hard feelings I just felt that I needed to say that. Your wheels are gorgeous just a little too pricey for some people. You have answered questions that I've had in the past...not directly to me, but questions that others have asked that I was curious about, so like I said no hard feelings or anything it's just not everyone has $ to spend on wheels. Hell the majority of this board rocks OE wheels for everyday use.
08-21-2005, 12:02 AM
#7
Ritz,
No offense taken, nor do I feel that any offense should be felt regarding my statements. Thank you for your comments; I do try to help out as many folks as I can. There are some very knowledgeable folks on the boards that can help each other our tremendously. I feel boards like this have greatly contributed to the speed of our cars today.
I do not have anything against the weld entry-level wheels. I don't believe I have ever stated the weld wheels are "cheap". They are welds lowest end budgeted wheels with a no frills approach...it is meant to be this way for the folks whom do not have the budget for high end wheels...I suppose some may take offense to this, but it is a fact. We have low-end budget 2 piece wheels also...though I never mention them as I won't recommend them to an F-body customer since I cannot make them fit very well and fitment issues arise among other considerations.
I would like to point out, reading my previous statement I do praise the economy style wheels as a good low-budget choice. Weld also manufactures very high-end wheels. Many times, during phone conversations etc, after discussing customer’s goals, I recommend the weld budget line of wheels.
When I see folks comparing our high-end wheels to a prostar, there is no comparison. JUST as there is no comparison to the low-end budgeted weld prostar wheel to welds high-end wheels....it is a night and day comparison.
Many folks do not know what they are purchasing and do not see the benefits of a higher end wheel... This is a fairly reasonable assumption as most folks are not wheel experts or even engineers. I do point out differences since I do consider my working knowledge and my mechanical engineering background helpful to others. Unfortunately, some appear to take offense to my comments regarding the benefits of our wheels in comparison to a low-end budget wheel.
In fairness, it is like comparing a Ferrari to a fiero. In comparison, even the high-end weld wheels simply blow away their entry level prostar wheels. If the weld high-end wheels fit and were made for the F-bodies as our custom wheels are built, I'd also suggest them to members.
Though our wheels are right in line with high-ended weld wheels, ours are built for the car; ours are show quality finish and are extremely light. From considering even only an appearance difference, a wheel can make or break a car. …I am telling a customer not to purchase other light-go-fast components…I see some not willing to spend a little more to purchase our wheels, but will dump quite a bit of money into another area of the car that has a small hp/weight benefit and something that you cannot see.
Here’s a quick analogy. A weld rear wheel weighs ~15lbs, an LS1 built weighs ~11lbs. This is 8 lbs of rotational weight a customer is giving up….doesn’t sound like much, rotational weight shouldn’t be overlooked. Every 1 lb of rotational mass is equivalent to a min of 4 lbs of static weight. So the 8 lbs they figured was “not a big deal”, turns out to be equivalent of leaving a minimum of 32 lbs of static mass on their car! I see many folks spending quite a bit more money just to save 20 lbs of weight off their car!
They also have to jump through quite a bit of hoops to make the weld prostar wheel “work”. In the end, they did not realize they needed super long studs which can look funny on their stock wheels as they protrude way past the wheel. They also did not realize they had to grind off as much as they thought and did not realize that the finish was not all that great. You do get what you pay for, the high-end welds are nothing like a prostar or draglite. Our high-end Bogart wheels do perfectly fit the bill for F-bodies as I have worked and built them to be a harmonious to each other.
There is a reason why you see many folks changing over from an economy wheel to our Bogart wheel. I don’t think the reason is they just have money to burn.
When folks drive to events, shows or races, when using our wheels, they have a sense of pride…which they should. They tend to shine above the rest and what I feel make the cars appearance.
Occasionally, I see some state they do not like our wheels. We have so many choices to consider, I feel many whom have stated this have not seen them in person or have seen only one style they do not like. Certainly not ever style meets every person’s approval that is why we have such a large choice of wheels to consider. With 17 direct fitment styles to consider, one would assume one style would appeal to them.
As you have stated, some just do not have the budget nor feel the need for our products. Obviously, being a high-end product, it is not for everyone. For that person, purchasing something like carpeting which saves you ~20 or so lbs, they may think twice and if they have to choose one or the other and get prostars since they ran out of funds, they may reconsider and spend the money on a higher end product that everyone can see. I’m not telling that person to not purchase carpeting either…do both if you can.
No offense taken, nor do I feel that any offense should be felt regarding my statements. Thank you for your comments; I do try to help out as many folks as I can. There are some very knowledgeable folks on the boards that can help each other our tremendously. I feel boards like this have greatly contributed to the speed of our cars today.
I do not have anything against the weld entry-level wheels. I don't believe I have ever stated the weld wheels are "cheap". They are welds lowest end budgeted wheels with a no frills approach...it is meant to be this way for the folks whom do not have the budget for high end wheels...I suppose some may take offense to this, but it is a fact. We have low-end budget 2 piece wheels also...though I never mention them as I won't recommend them to an F-body customer since I cannot make them fit very well and fitment issues arise among other considerations.
I would like to point out, reading my previous statement I do praise the economy style wheels as a good low-budget choice. Weld also manufactures very high-end wheels. Many times, during phone conversations etc, after discussing customer’s goals, I recommend the weld budget line of wheels.
When I see folks comparing our high-end wheels to a prostar, there is no comparison. JUST as there is no comparison to the low-end budgeted weld prostar wheel to welds high-end wheels....it is a night and day comparison.
Many folks do not know what they are purchasing and do not see the benefits of a higher end wheel... This is a fairly reasonable assumption as most folks are not wheel experts or even engineers. I do point out differences since I do consider my working knowledge and my mechanical engineering background helpful to others. Unfortunately, some appear to take offense to my comments regarding the benefits of our wheels in comparison to a low-end budget wheel.
In fairness, it is like comparing a Ferrari to a fiero. In comparison, even the high-end weld wheels simply blow away their entry level prostar wheels. If the weld high-end wheels fit and were made for the F-bodies as our custom wheels are built, I'd also suggest them to members.
Though our wheels are right in line with high-ended weld wheels, ours are built for the car; ours are show quality finish and are extremely light. From considering even only an appearance difference, a wheel can make or break a car. …I am telling a customer not to purchase other light-go-fast components…I see some not willing to spend a little more to purchase our wheels, but will dump quite a bit of money into another area of the car that has a small hp/weight benefit and something that you cannot see.
Here’s a quick analogy. A weld rear wheel weighs ~15lbs, an LS1 built weighs ~11lbs. This is 8 lbs of rotational weight a customer is giving up….doesn’t sound like much, rotational weight shouldn’t be overlooked. Every 1 lb of rotational mass is equivalent to a min of 4 lbs of static weight. So the 8 lbs they figured was “not a big deal”, turns out to be equivalent of leaving a minimum of 32 lbs of static mass on their car! I see many folks spending quite a bit more money just to save 20 lbs of weight off their car!
They also have to jump through quite a bit of hoops to make the weld prostar wheel “work”. In the end, they did not realize they needed super long studs which can look funny on their stock wheels as they protrude way past the wheel. They also did not realize they had to grind off as much as they thought and did not realize that the finish was not all that great. You do get what you pay for, the high-end welds are nothing like a prostar or draglite. Our high-end Bogart wheels do perfectly fit the bill for F-bodies as I have worked and built them to be a harmonious to each other.
There is a reason why you see many folks changing over from an economy wheel to our Bogart wheel. I don’t think the reason is they just have money to burn.
When folks drive to events, shows or races, when using our wheels, they have a sense of pride…which they should. They tend to shine above the rest and what I feel make the cars appearance.
Occasionally, I see some state they do not like our wheels. We have so many choices to consider, I feel many whom have stated this have not seen them in person or have seen only one style they do not like. Certainly not ever style meets every person’s approval that is why we have such a large choice of wheels to consider. With 17 direct fitment styles to consider, one would assume one style would appeal to them.
As you have stated, some just do not have the budget nor feel the need for our products. Obviously, being a high-end product, it is not for everyone. For that person, purchasing something like carpeting which saves you ~20 or so lbs, they may think twice and if they have to choose one or the other and get prostars since they ran out of funds, they may reconsider and spend the money on a higher end product that everyone can see. I’m not telling that person to not purchase carpeting either…do both if you can.
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08-21-2005, 09:30 PM
#8
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1. For 15x3.5 & 15x10 Prostars, are spacers absolutely needed?
---Unless you want to grind the bejeezus out of the calipers. I ground my rears down so I ran no spacers in back, but the calipers lost a lot of mass.
I want these tires to tuck as well as possible, so could I grind enough to not use spacers?
---Yes.
2. Are longer studs needed if I DON'T use spacers? I don't see why they would.
---3/16 spacer + Welds = not a lot of thread engagement. But I ran like that in the front for a long time, like four years. But in back I did not trust it and I ran longer studs in back.
3. What lugs work if longer studs and spacers aren't used? Will the stock style work or do you have to go to open-end?
---Open end are more legal for the track.
---Unless you want to grind the bejeezus out of the calipers. I ground my rears down so I ran no spacers in back, but the calipers lost a lot of mass.
I want these tires to tuck as well as possible, so could I grind enough to not use spacers?
---Yes.
2. Are longer studs needed if I DON'T use spacers? I don't see why they would.
---3/16 spacer + Welds = not a lot of thread engagement. But I ran like that in the front for a long time, like four years. But in back I did not trust it and I ran longer studs in back.
3. What lugs work if longer studs and spacers aren't used? Will the stock style work or do you have to go to open-end?
---Open end are more legal for the track.
