Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better!
02-12-2002, 07:20 PM
#22
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Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! Patrick G:
That's real close to where I want to be with my next cam. I look forward to hearing the results. Since you've had 11 different convertors, why did you keep the one you did? BTW, what do the SAM heads flow?
.......I think you can gain by a cam change, but it depends on what your goals are and what combination you have. Aggressive cams have proven to work better. That's why roller cams work better than non-rollers. You'll get better results if you do a cam change if your current combination is not right for what you want to do with the car. If you have a big stall, you want power in the upper rpms for drag racing. If your exaust ports don't flow well enough, you can crutch the exaust with a split pattern cam. So in MANY cases, the T1 won't be the right cam. But for stock heads & many combinations out there, it proved it has worked very well.
There is no such thing as, it worked for X, it's gonna work for me. Not enough people have tried the cam change to get enough information. The only thing you can do is try it out. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0"> But it doesn't hurt to gather as much information as you can.
That's real close to where I want to be with my next cam. I look forward to hearing the results. Since you've had 11 different convertors, why did you keep the one you did? BTW, what do the SAM heads flow?
.......I think you can gain by a cam change, but it depends on what your goals are and what combination you have. Aggressive cams have proven to work better. That's why roller cams work better than non-rollers. You'll get better results if you do a cam change if your current combination is not right for what you want to do with the car. If you have a big stall, you want power in the upper rpms for drag racing. If your exaust ports don't flow well enough, you can crutch the exaust with a split pattern cam. So in MANY cases, the T1 won't be the right cam. But for stock heads & many combinations out there, it proved it has worked very well.
There is no such thing as, it worked for X, it's gonna work for me. Not enough people have tried the cam change to get enough information. The only thing you can do is try it out. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0"> But it doesn't hurt to gather as much information as you can.
02-12-2002, 07:23 PM
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Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! Dont forget the Lunati T1 and B1 cams have aggressive lobes as well. Just not as aggressive as the new comp lobes.
I am trying it because it costs me nothing and also because I like the idea of 228/228 112LSA cam with 588 lift, and fast ramps. Is it harder on springs? Yes...
Do I care? Nope <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
I wouldnt necessarily pull a T1 to install this new cam but if my heads make awesome numbers at 590 lift then the cam change is worth it.
I bet I will see a difference between my B1 221/221 558 lift 114LSA cam and the new 228/228 112LSA 588 lift comp cam. Even if it is 5RWHP it is worth it to me. Cheers,
Chris
[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: Chris ARE 360 ]</p>
I am trying it because it costs me nothing and also because I like the idea of 228/228 112LSA cam with 588 lift, and fast ramps. Is it harder on springs? Yes...
Do I care? Nope <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
I wouldnt necessarily pull a T1 to install this new cam but if my heads make awesome numbers at 590 lift then the cam change is worth it.
I bet I will see a difference between my B1 221/221 558 lift 114LSA cam and the new 228/228 112LSA 588 lift comp cam. Even if it is 5RWHP it is worth it to me. Cheers,
Chris
[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: Chris ARE 360 ]</p>
02-12-2002, 07:27 PM
#25
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Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! In other words you want the least flow restriction at this key point, to make the most of volumetric efficiency.
02-12-2002, 08:17 PM
#26
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! I'm getting the 226 lobes on a 114. The new 226 Extreme X-ER at .200 lift will have 147 degrees of duration. To get that same duration using the current Comps (.56x lift Extreme) would require using 230 lobes. That would seem to bode well for making more power.
Given I'm changing everything, I will not be able to give you the numbers you desire.
[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: Ragtop 99 ]</p>
Given I'm changing everything, I will not be able to give you the numbers you desire.
[ February 12, 2002: Message edited by: Ragtop 99 ]</p>
02-12-2002, 08:44 PM
#27
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! Thanks for the responses.. Scott J. I kind of get your point. My exhaust #'s are not the best, but I am still going to dyno better than most. You mentioned that these aggressive cams are working better. I am asking for an example. Someone with these new cams. I know the C2 cam is one of these, but the person that has it changed some other things as well. It there is a cam out there that would benefit my package more than the T1 I will find it.. I just want some proof.. By the way, how come these new XE-R's are all single pattern cams?
02-12-2002, 09:14 PM
#29
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! vmoore,
the Comp XE-R cams are not single pattern cams, just lobes. I chose to go with a single pattern cam for driveability reasons. The original plan was to go with the older Comp lobes (like the TR224)with a 224/228 113LSA. After seeing the new lobes of the XE-Rs, I changed my mind. The 226 duration at .050 gives me more duration @ .200 (147 vs. 145) when compared to the old 228 lobe, but the advertised duration @ .006 is only 275 degrees...which is the same as the 222/222 Hammer Cam. In essence, I'm getting a 230/230 cam, with the idle of a 222/222 cam. Sounds better to me, won't you agree?
As far as over-camming these LS1s...LOL, if that were true, Stock Eliminators would all be running T1 cams. These guys run stock compression, stock heads, and stock lift cams, but mucho duration (the most they can get under the curve without affecting piston to valve clearance). If it works for them, it could work well for you too...you just wouldn't want to drive it to work everyday, haha.
I'm excited about my new cam. My old 221/224 Lunati has an advertised duration of 283/285 (measured at .020). In comparison,my new 226/226 XE-R Comp Cam is only 275/275 (measured at .006). That means I should make more power and have as good, if not better street manners. Power peak should only bump up a few hundred rpm (it needs to, it's only a 6100 peak), but it should carry quite a bit farther. I'm excited about posting the before/after results.
Jantzer, my heads are the ones that were on Judson's Orange SS when he first broke into the 10s with a 346 (Nov. 2000). Needless to say, they flow a lot of air. Something like 270 @ .400, 295 @ .500, 305 @ .550 and .310 @ .600. Exhaust is around 230 @ .550.
the Comp XE-R cams are not single pattern cams, just lobes. I chose to go with a single pattern cam for driveability reasons. The original plan was to go with the older Comp lobes (like the TR224)with a 224/228 113LSA. After seeing the new lobes of the XE-Rs, I changed my mind. The 226 duration at .050 gives me more duration @ .200 (147 vs. 145) when compared to the old 228 lobe, but the advertised duration @ .006 is only 275 degrees...which is the same as the 222/222 Hammer Cam. In essence, I'm getting a 230/230 cam, with the idle of a 222/222 cam. Sounds better to me, won't you agree?
As far as over-camming these LS1s...LOL, if that were true, Stock Eliminators would all be running T1 cams. These guys run stock compression, stock heads, and stock lift cams, but mucho duration (the most they can get under the curve without affecting piston to valve clearance). If it works for them, it could work well for you too...you just wouldn't want to drive it to work everyday, haha.
I'm excited about my new cam. My old 221/224 Lunati has an advertised duration of 283/285 (measured at .020). In comparison,my new 226/226 XE-R Comp Cam is only 275/275 (measured at .006). That means I should make more power and have as good, if not better street manners. Power peak should only bump up a few hundred rpm (it needs to, it's only a 6100 peak), but it should carry quite a bit farther. I'm excited about posting the before/after results.
Jantzer, my heads are the ones that were on Judson's Orange SS when he first broke into the 10s with a 346 (Nov. 2000). Needless to say, they flow a lot of air. Something like 270 @ .400, 295 @ .500, 305 @ .550 and .310 @ .600. Exhaust is around 230 @ .550.
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2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
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2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
02-12-2002, 09:23 PM
#30
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Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! Where are you guys getting all this info on lobes? I looked on comps site, and didn't find much of anything.
02-12-2002, 09:35 PM
#31
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! Patrick I cant wait to see the results.. Your heads have which valves? The flow is extremely high for some Stage 2's.. If your car idles like the hammer cam, but you are getting the power of a 230/230 cam I am all for that.. So next week we are going to get our first test of the Before/After cam change with no other changes. You are still running the Cranes right..? We have the same dual springs if I remember..
02-13-2002, 08:09 AM
#33
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! Just as an FYI, I'm running Ferrea valves...2.055/1.60, Comp Ti retainers, and Manly locks...good stuff. I would consider these Stage IIs.
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2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
02-13-2002, 09:08 AM
#34
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Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! Patrick G, not trying to be a copy cat but thats exactly the cam I want to run. Exactly. Can you give me the part # for it please. I was going to run a custom .576 with 230@.050 but I want to shift at 6700 and the cam you are switching too should be on the money for me. Thanks in advance. Feel free to E-mail me if you dont want to post the #. Thanks again
02-13-2002, 09:18 AM
#35
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! The cam I'm putting in doesn't have a part number since it's a custom cam. Just call Comp and tell them that you want the #3723 XE-R lobes for the intake and exhaust and tell the the LSA you want. This will give you a 226/226, .585/.585 cam.
If you want a 230/230, .592/.592 cam, tell them you want the #3725 XE-R lobes and tell them the LSA you prefer.
If you want a 230/230, .592/.592 cam, tell them you want the #3725 XE-R lobes and tell them the LSA you prefer.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
02-13-2002, 01:25 PM
#38
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! Sounds like an awesome cam. Good idea on the 4 degree advance built in.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
02-13-2002, 03:26 PM
#39
Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! Patrick I am stoked for you.. You and I both have been looking for more and we will soon get the results of what might be the magical cam next week.. <img src="gr_stretch.gif" border="0">
02-16-2002, 03:08 PM
#40
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Re: Need Proof That More Aggressive Lobes Are Better! [quote]Originally posted by Patrick G:
<strong>The original plan was to go with the older Comp lobes (like the TR224)with a 224/228 113LSA. </strong><hr></blockquote>
For the record: The Thunder 220/224 cams do not use the Comp Extreme Energy lobes. The lobes are proprietary to Thunder Racing. Comp has developed two different series of "Extreme" lobes for the LS1. The first series of the high lift extreme energy lobes are the "LS1 High RPM" lobes. The second series are the "LS1 XE-R" lobes. The Thunder Racing lobes are probably in the middle of these two designs as far as ramp speed is concerned. As an example, with the LS1 High RPM lobe, the duration at .006 is 277, at .050 is 224 and at .200 is 142 (with a total of .563 lift). The Thunder Racing 224 lobe at .006 is 276, at .050 is 224, and at .200 is 143 (with a total lift of .561). The 224 XE-R lobe at .006 is 273, at .050 is 224, and at .200 is 146 (with a total lift of .581).
The specs above for the Comp lobes are straight from Comp's literature. The specs for the TR lobe is what has been consitantly measured off the Cam Pro-Plus. Although the TR 224 doesn't look to be anymore aggresive than the Comp High RPM lobes, we have tested these lobes and the XE-R lobes tend to check out smaller than Comp's published specs on our Cam Pro-Plus.
BTW, Patrick, did you get the new cam in?
<strong>The original plan was to go with the older Comp lobes (like the TR224)with a 224/228 113LSA. </strong><hr></blockquote>
For the record: The Thunder 220/224 cams do not use the Comp Extreme Energy lobes. The lobes are proprietary to Thunder Racing. Comp has developed two different series of "Extreme" lobes for the LS1. The first series of the high lift extreme energy lobes are the "LS1 High RPM" lobes. The second series are the "LS1 XE-R" lobes. The Thunder Racing lobes are probably in the middle of these two designs as far as ramp speed is concerned. As an example, with the LS1 High RPM lobe, the duration at .006 is 277, at .050 is 224 and at .200 is 142 (with a total of .563 lift). The Thunder Racing 224 lobe at .006 is 276, at .050 is 224, and at .200 is 143 (with a total lift of .561). The 224 XE-R lobe at .006 is 273, at .050 is 224, and at .200 is 146 (with a total lift of .581).
The specs above for the Comp lobes are straight from Comp's literature. The specs for the TR lobe is what has been consitantly measured off the Cam Pro-Plus. Although the TR 224 doesn't look to be anymore aggresive than the Comp High RPM lobes, we have tested these lobes and the XE-R lobes tend to check out smaller than Comp's published specs on our Cam Pro-Plus.
BTW, Patrick, did you get the new cam in?