professional builders please help with 4l60e problem
03-08-2011, 02:07 PM
#1
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professional builders please help with 4l60e problem please help i am about to pull my hair out.
this might be a bit of a long read but i think it is needed to get the whole picture.
i have been helping a buddy with his transmission that he bought from a guy who is a builder at an area gm dealer. the guy told him it had a fresh rebuild with a trans go shift kit and a corvette servo.
the transmission he bought lasted about a week(about 250 miles) and the sprag broke and he was able to limp it to another buddys shop so it could be worked on.
the car is a heavy full bodied car(about 3800 lbs) with a turboed 6.0l(about 650 fwhp)
when i tore in to the tranny i noticed the tranny was not freshly rebuilt(but did not have many miles on it) and did not have the servo and only had parts and pieces of the transgo shift kit in it. i also found pieces of paper from a sonnax package stuck in the valve body as well as pieces of a roller bearing used to block valves from moving. the accumulators did not have the transgo springs nor did the servo.
i put the tranny back together using a dual cage sprag, an entire transgo hd2c, new seperator plate and torlon *****, transgo no yoyo kit, sonnax over run shift valve and reverse abuse valve, as well as new forward and overrun clutches and steels and a z pack for the 3-4. i drilled holes in the plate according to the instructions.
we put the tranny back in the car and it lasted about 10 miles and started flairing up going into 3rd. when we took it back to the shop we thought we heared the pump whining but could not be sure. so we pulled it all back apart and found the 3-4 clutches were toast. tore everything back down and only found the forward abuse valve in the valve body was stuck. i dont know what this could have done but it is not stuck now.
put it back together a few days later (last night) with new high energy clutches(9 stack) for the 3-4 and put it back in the car. it did the exact same thing. flairing up in 3rd. pulled it back out pulled the pump apart to find small shavings and chunks aluminum in the rotor and veins. i went and got another pump from the house and cleaned it up and put it in and the noise is still there and it is slipping in 2nd now also. i did not put a guage on it because i did not have it with me and it was really late/early by this time so we just parked it.
i have been into this thing 3 times now. i am fairly certain there is nothing wrong with the rotating internals or the valvebody.
what could it be? please help i am open to ALL sugestions.
this might be a bit of a long read but i think it is needed to get the whole picture.
i have been helping a buddy with his transmission that he bought from a guy who is a builder at an area gm dealer. the guy told him it had a fresh rebuild with a trans go shift kit and a corvette servo.
the transmission he bought lasted about a week(about 250 miles) and the sprag broke and he was able to limp it to another buddys shop so it could be worked on.
the car is a heavy full bodied car(about 3800 lbs) with a turboed 6.0l(about 650 fwhp)
when i tore in to the tranny i noticed the tranny was not freshly rebuilt(but did not have many miles on it) and did not have the servo and only had parts and pieces of the transgo shift kit in it. i also found pieces of paper from a sonnax package stuck in the valve body as well as pieces of a roller bearing used to block valves from moving. the accumulators did not have the transgo springs nor did the servo.
i put the tranny back together using a dual cage sprag, an entire transgo hd2c, new seperator plate and torlon *****, transgo no yoyo kit, sonnax over run shift valve and reverse abuse valve, as well as new forward and overrun clutches and steels and a z pack for the 3-4. i drilled holes in the plate according to the instructions.
we put the tranny back in the car and it lasted about 10 miles and started flairing up going into 3rd. when we took it back to the shop we thought we heared the pump whining but could not be sure. so we pulled it all back apart and found the 3-4 clutches were toast. tore everything back down and only found the forward abuse valve in the valve body was stuck. i dont know what this could have done but it is not stuck now.
put it back together a few days later (last night) with new high energy clutches(9 stack) for the 3-4 and put it back in the car. it did the exact same thing. flairing up in 3rd. pulled it back out pulled the pump apart to find small shavings and chunks aluminum in the rotor and veins. i went and got another pump from the house and cleaned it up and put it in and the noise is still there and it is slipping in 2nd now also. i did not put a guage on it because i did not have it with me and it was really late/early by this time so we just parked it.
i have been into this thing 3 times now. i am fairly certain there is nothing wrong with the rotating internals or the valvebody.
what could it be? please help i am open to ALL sugestions.
03-08-2011, 07:08 PM
#3
I'd cut and clean the converter and replace or flush the cooler out, tear the whole trans down and clean it out, not taking any short cuts because metal from the failure can easily get in between the clutch apply seals and drums, even if they air check ok all of the apply pistons should come out for inspection and cleaning.
Then adjust the servo travel, 3-4 clearance, band release hole size and 3rd apply hole size, plug the band release check ball hole, remove the 3-2 valve spring and block the valve inward.
Block the 4th accumulator from moving, leave the piston either all the way up or all the way down and make a spacer to prevent it from moving. (most people plug the feed hole but this cuts off lube sprayed to the low/reverse clutch).
Drill the 4th feed to .125, 3rd to .130, band release to .106, 2nd to .093.
For the 2nd accumulator use no spacers and install the springs as shown in the picture.
Servo travel should be .062-.080. 3-4 should be .045.
My guess is that garbage from the failure is floating around sticking **** at random. It might be a good idea to replace the shift solenoids, especially if they are the older non-screened type.
After all that I'd tune the the base shift pressure up slighly and the upshift pressure modifiers as needed. And put the desired shift time to zero. Delete P0757, P0751.
On the first run have some tuning equipment running and a pressure gauge. Load all the relavent pids to log transmission function and try to catch problems instead of just letting it burn itself up again.
I'm not a professional builder, but I play one on the internet.
Then adjust the servo travel, 3-4 clearance, band release hole size and 3rd apply hole size, plug the band release check ball hole, remove the 3-2 valve spring and block the valve inward.
Block the 4th accumulator from moving, leave the piston either all the way up or all the way down and make a spacer to prevent it from moving. (most people plug the feed hole but this cuts off lube sprayed to the low/reverse clutch).
Drill the 4th feed to .125, 3rd to .130, band release to .106, 2nd to .093.
For the 2nd accumulator use no spacers and install the springs as shown in the picture.
Servo travel should be .062-.080. 3-4 should be .045.
My guess is that garbage from the failure is floating around sticking **** at random. It might be a good idea to replace the shift solenoids, especially if they are the older non-screened type.
After all that I'd tune the the base shift pressure up slighly and the upshift pressure modifiers as needed. And put the desired shift time to zero. Delete P0757, P0751.
On the first run have some tuning equipment running and a pressure gauge. Load all the relavent pids to log transmission function and try to catch problems instead of just letting it burn itself up again.
I'm not a professional builder, but I play one on the internet.
Last edited by Jays_SSZ28; 01-30-2018 at 08:00 PM.
03-09-2011, 08:39 PM
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I'd cut and clean the converter and replace or flush the cooler out, tear the whole trans down and clean it out, not taking any short cuts because metal from the failure can easily get in between the clutch apply seals and drums, even if they air check ok all of the apply pistons should come out for inspection and cleaning.
Then adjust the servo travel, 3-4 clearance, band release hole size and 3rd apply hole size, plug the band release check ball hole, remove the 3-2 valve spring and block the valve inward.
Block the 4th accumulator from moving, leave the piston either all the way up or all the way down and make a spacer to prevent it from moving. (most people plug the feed hole but this cuts off lube sprayed to the low/reverse clutch).
Drill the 4th feed to .125, 3rd to .130, band release to .106, 2nd to .093.
For the 2nd accumulator use no spacers and install the springs as shown in the picture.
Servo travel should be .062-.080. 3-4 should be .045.
My guess is that garbage from the failure is floating around sticking **** at random. It might be a good idea to replace the shift solenoids, especially if they are the older non-screened type.
After all that I'd tune the the base shift pressure up slighly and the upshift pressure modifiers as needed. And put the desired shift time to zero. Delete P0757, P0751.
On the first run have some tuning equipment running and a pressure gauge. Load all the relavent pids to log transmission function and try to catch problems instead of just letting it burn itself up again.
I'm not a professional builder, but I play one on the internet.
Then adjust the servo travel, 3-4 clearance, band release hole size and 3rd apply hole size, plug the band release check ball hole, remove the 3-2 valve spring and block the valve inward.
Block the 4th accumulator from moving, leave the piston either all the way up or all the way down and make a spacer to prevent it from moving. (most people plug the feed hole but this cuts off lube sprayed to the low/reverse clutch).
Drill the 4th feed to .125, 3rd to .130, band release to .106, 2nd to .093.
For the 2nd accumulator use no spacers and install the springs as shown in the picture.
Servo travel should be .062-.080. 3-4 should be .045.
My guess is that garbage from the failure is floating around sticking **** at random. It might be a good idea to replace the shift solenoids, especially if they are the older non-screened type.
After all that I'd tune the the base shift pressure up slighly and the upshift pressure modifiers as needed. And put the desired shift time to zero. Delete P0757, P0751.
On the first run have some tuning equipment running and a pressure gauge. Load all the relavent pids to log transmission function and try to catch problems instead of just letting it burn itself up again.
I'm not a professional builder, but I play one on the internet.
Last edited by RPM WS6; 03-10-2011 at 11:37 AM. Reason: Non-sponsor link removed.
