sprattzvn

hi guys, awesome forum you have, ive got a lot of usefull info here already. anyway on with my first post.
i have rebuilt my trans using alto power pack, beast sunshell corvette servo etc etc. the transgo shift kit is missing the .265 gold checkball. if i install the kit but with the original 1-2 shift valve in place, how will this affect the 1-2 shift, and will the trans still shift up/down 1-2 manually. if so i can install the trans and drop the pan later to install the 1-2 transgo valve. this is a retrofit into a veihcle with no pcm, ecu only.
thanks,
ken.

Vince B

iTrader: (1)

No you need to have that ball in the valve. It is there to help with the gear command feature in the HD-2 kit. Being that you have the -3 kit you absolutely need it IMO. I would call TG and ask them for the ball you are missing or ask if it would be alright to use one of the 1/4 inch check ***** that are in the unit to begin with. HTH Vince

sprattzvn

sweet ill see what transgo has to say. thanks vince.

sprattzvn

hi again guys, just wanting to be sure about something thats worrying me. there appears to be 2 ways to install the input drum, 1 with the gear in the drum, and 1 with the gear installed into the case and the input drum is installed onto the gear. mine came out with the gear still attached, so im assuming it can go back in this way no dramas? pics below to demonstrate what im on about.
guidance on this is much appreciated, i have dissasembled the trans to asses as it was playing on my mind a bit, and seeing two methods makes me wonder what the go is.
cheers,
ken.

01ssreda4

iTrader: (96)

I'm not big on internals of these trannies, but welcome to the board Vince will steer you in the right direction

Vince B

iTrader: (1)

From the looks of the second picture you have is what I would call the early sprag assembly. This sprag assembly does not retain the sungear. The later sprag assembly has little tangs that hold the sungear to the inner race. So to answer your question I would install the sungear into the planet and then load the drum. Good luck with your project. Vince

sprattzvn

hey guys.
ive hit a bit of an issue while re-installing the pump. it seems to be getting hung up on the ridge in the bore of the case where the pump fits. it goes in easy up to this point, and stops when the pump outer o ring(yellow stripe) is just visible over the edge of the pump bore and then just wont budge, ive had a small piece of timber on it and given it some firm taps but no go.
for what its worth the pump was VERY difficult to remove. and pump was not disassembled so the two pump halves alignment is not an issue. this trans was in perfect working order and was only disassembled for fresh clutches and upgraded hard parts along with complete hd3 install(hi rev springs etc). is this tight fit over the ridge in the bore a common thing? is there a trick to how i should handle this issue, or just man-up and hit it a bit harder....maybe lightly sand the outer surface of the pump that contacts the ridge?
thanks again,
ken.

mrvedit

First, I installed the Transgo HD kit and did NOT install their 1-2 shift valve as I did not want the gear-command feature as that could let you accidentally overrev the engine if you downshift too far. The trans shifts perfectly; I can put it in any gear rev it to redline and then manually shift up.

In relation to getting your oil pump back in, I would suggest replacing the outer pump o-ring and lubbing it well. Old o-rings often get hard and don't compress as well as a new one. A cooperative local trans shop should have spares.
If you can't wait, take off the old one, clean its groove well, clean the o-ring thoroughly and lube it with something really slippery like STP oil treatment.
Good luck.

sprattzvn

Hi mate, thanks for the quick reply. I should maybe provide some more detail. The pump has a new oring, is very well lubed. The entire trans has new orings and seals through-out(transtec). The pistons are all new moulded, all sealing rings etc have been replaced and resized for 2 days, the forward clutches and 3/4 have been set at .020 dry. I need full manual control as the only electronic will be lockup. The pump was not split, but was fitted with the transgo valving upgrades. i have checked and checked again for anything stopping the pump from going in, the reverse drum is fully seated and indexed. Measuring with a mic indicates the ridge in the bore is where the pump stops and refuses to go in. I removed the outer pump seal/oring to check thinking it could be the issue and it still doesnt go past this point. Im not gonna make the mistake of getting frustrated and forcing the pump down, just need to nut this one out. Ive given it a fair old smack with a block of wood and a mallet and its not budging, so im not sure how to approach this but i now know why it was such a bitch to remove i think its just a tight one.

mrvedit

Ok, thanks for the additional info.
The oil pump might be hanging on the last teflon ring into the reverse drum; banging it too hard will break it. You should keep the resizer on until the last minute and of course lube the teflon rings too.
If you no longer have the resizer handy, I don't know if it would be safe to "resize" the rings with a hose clamp. Perhaps a trans expert could chime in on that.

I'm certainly no expert, but here is what I would do:
* Remove the reverse drum and see how/if the teflon rings fit. If you find that you have to manually squeeze the last ring, you have found the problem. You can keep the drum on for a few hours and use it as your resizer.
* With the reverse drum out, remove the oil pump o-ring and test that the oil pump fits onto the case.
* Once both of these are tested/solved, I would lube the teflon seals with a bit of STP, generously lube the o-ring with STP and try again.

Good luck.

Vince B

iTrader: (1)

Make sure you have the band servo, band and the band anchor in the correct position when you go to install the pump. I have seen the reverse input drum be cocked because of this and make it next to impossible to install the pump. Also make sure you did not damage the stator rings because of this. HTH Vince

sprattzvn

cheers for your help guys. i took the input and reverse drum out and seated the pump on the sealing rings slid over no problems, so i left it for a few hours to resize the rings again. might seem strange but after the process of elimination it seems that this case casting is just a very tight fit. i used a dremel with a tiny flapper wheel and very carefully de-burred and put a slight and very small chamfer on the lip of the case where the outer pump seal slides past and was able to get the pump in. this lip/ridge was very rough and had a lot of sharp casting marks. its a late 2000 4l60e and when i removed it it never popped up and pulled out easily after being levered up, it required working all the way up and never released until the last part of the pump was out of the bore, dont know why its so tight.

in trying to avoid the common 2-3 shift flare issue, i put the corvette servo in with 1 gold shim, but the band movement seemed excessive, so i put the second shim in and now it is too tight with little to no movement of the band. in preferance to having the one shim and alot of slop, do you think i should leave the 2 shims and trim a touch off the pin?
like i said guys appreciate your advice, this forum is hands down the best source of 4l60e information for me
thanks,
ken.

mrvedit

Glad you got your pump installed. Last night I "tested" my suggestions to you on a spare trans just to be sure and noticed the pump was very tight even without the o-ring and without the reverse drum. I will therefore debur my case a bit like you did. Thanks for the feedback and solution.

Sorry, I don't have the experience to answer your shim question; I assume you are referring to the shims that come with the TG HD-2 kit as a stock rebuild does not have those. Personally I would prefer the band a bit loose than dragging.

I didn't think/know the Corvette servo would help with 2-3 shift flare problems. I thought this was caused by slow disengagement of the band and/or slow engagement of the 3/4 clutch. The HD-2 kit has stronger springs for the servo which might serve to disengage it faster. I am still learning about this stuff.

sprattzvn

im new to this also! the shims im talkintg about are the gold spacers used in the transgo hd2-3. im using a corvette servo.
regards the band tension, from the research ive done there needs to be a balance between not too tight and not so loose as to cause a long band release causing delayed 3-4 engagement which apparently is a big part of the 3-4 flare common in diy built transmissions. i know the band will loosen up a little after a few miles. it seemed very loose on the drum with 1 shim, but with 2 it seems very tight only turning out-put shaft 1 way by hand. so to fine tune i might turn to servo pin adjustments im aiming for a tight fit but still just turning by hand. the oil used to release the band takes away from the 3-4 clutch engagement i believe, so the tighter you can get it without dragging the better. would be great if vince or another of the trans gurus could chime in here abit with regards to how tight is too tight. alto carbon band standard width. its been covered on here in previous threads but not too detailed.
thanks all,
ken.

Vince B

iTrader: (1)

Ken I have always set up my bands on the tight side. Keep in mind that if you can turn the output shaft in both directions its not to tight. It will be hard to turn in one direction and normally I use a pair of small channel locks to help turn the output shaft. I normally set band clearance with the transmissions pump out of the units so I can see how loose the band is and also turn the reverse input drum with my hands. IMO if it has a slight drag while doing this its fine when using a new band. I honestly have not had many band failures with using this method. I hope this helps. Vince

sprattzvn

great information there vince, just the kind of input i was looking for. looks like i made the right decision removing one gold shim then, as with 2 the output shaft would not move in both directions regardless of how i tried, and the band had zero free movement on the reverse drum. with just the one shim in the servo assembly there is just a little more then the recommended min 1/8 play on the drum.
the trans is all stitched back up now, im just waiting on a 3800 rpm converter and she`ll be going in for a stint. ill be sure to update this thread once its going regardless of the outcome

sprattzvn

well after sitting in the shed for some time, this trans will be going in this week. just a double check before it goes in, when i turn the input shaft clockwise, the out put shaft turns clockwise, and i can here some squeaking im sure this is normal just wanna confirm. i have a fitting for my gauge in the test port to check pressures straight up. also fitting b&m pro ratchet.
cheers guys,
ken.

mrvedit

The output shaft will turn relatively easy one way, but be very hard to turn the other way. The reason is that the lo/reverse roller clutch will freewheel in one direction. However in the other direction, the input drum will turn 3 times as fast as the output shaft and all that friction makes it quite hard to turn. Squeaking is normal.
Sounds like you are good to go.

sprattzvn

trans is in and shifting great. took a lap of the block to get all four gears, at first was only first and second gear, now perfect, is this normal? also my theres not enough room to plug in my test gauge in the tunnel. but trans doesnt slip or bang gears at low speed, but it shifts hard as under heavy throttle.
i was unable to source the correct size t piece for the brake booster line so have supplied vacuum straight from the inlet manifold, this ok?
using original cooler and lines, the last trans never failed catastrophic style, was just slipping real bad in first. just drained and refilled with a second lot of new fluid after a few miles. will ad a new cooler tomorrow as i have no converter lockup.
thanks for the tips ppl.

mrvedit

Glad you got your trans rebuilt and working. Congratulations!

You should get other opinions, but your brake booster line sounds fine; you should have a valve in it so that low engine vacuum doesn't suck the vacuum out of the booster. (Perhaps newer boosters have that built in - I don't know as I have a Hydraboost system.)