axekick

iTrader: (18)

I'm in the middle of my first build. I got a level 3 kit from PATC minus a couple of parts that I has already acquired. One of those parts is the Beast shell that on in one of the cores I got. I've disassemble and reassembled this thing a couple of times and kept finding that I had negative end play. Finally, I assembled it with the stock shell and end play came out normally. So clearly, the beast I have is the issue. I don't have the proper plastic thrust washer for between the Beast and the rear sprag but I got negative end play even without that washer installed. I thing the shell is warped. Anyone heard of this? It does look like it got hot at some point and many of the internal parts from the case it came from were in very bad shape. I'm not about to build this thing with a stock sunshell but I want to make sure if I buy one that it will not cause the same problem. How do you guys feel about the hardened stock shell? I just wanted to post this because it is not a problem I came across in any of my searches.

Here's another question. One of the cores I got has very good and many new internals. Supposedly, the case has a crack in it somewhere. Anyway, all the steels look good. I'm surprised to find that the steels that came in my Alto kit do not have the turbulator steels with the holes in them. They're just solid. Should I use my new steels (lo/reverse and forward) or the used turbulator steels? My 3-4 steels are kolene.

I'm running tight clearance on the 3-4. It came out around .025". I have the high rev clutch springs on the way and I'll leave the little outer spring cages in the drum so centrifugal apply shouldn't be a problem.

thunderstruck507

iTrader: (18)

Mine was assembled with regular solid steels through the whole thing and it recently took a dump due to busted pump and 3/4 was worn out anyway. All the other clutches look good as new, so I don't see the downside to running the solid steels.

As far as the negative endplay I don't know, the sunshells my dad gets from his supplier are a similar product but as far as I know they are not the "beast" brand. He has never had an issue with them and they go in every single rebuild he has ever done.

Is it possible something isn't seating correctly? Maybe it's hanging a single disc during assembly for some reason?

I am not an expert those are just my thoughts based on what I saw during my rebuild last weekend.

axekick

iTrader: (18)

I could pull the drum and see that the clutches were all lined up perfectly to confirm that it was seated properly. I tapped hard parts with a hammer and drift pin to seat them the last time I assembled it.

We're talking a lot of negative end play. I could remove the selective washer from the drum and still have no end play. Then I swapped the shell and all was good. I'm going to order a Sonnax shell. I like the idea behind it. I'm pretty sure the Beast i got out of the core is warped from heat. It and the case were all I was going to try to salvage from that trans. The rear plates were seized bad, all the clutched were trashed. It went out in a bad way. Who knows, maybe the shell is defective and they built it with no end play and that was the cause of the failure.

Match360

If the shell is sitting down on the snap ring of the rear sun gear,then it's not the shell?
If the shell was warped bad enough to affect the end-play it would be rubbing something obvious.

mrvedit

IMHO the best choice is the Sonnax Smart Shell. This is what FLT, PATC and others are using in the highest level transmissions.
I have heard that failures of the GM hardened sun shell are relatively rare; certainly much rarer than before.

I posted this thread in your other thread:

https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...-end-play.html

A defective sun shell would prevent the reverse drum from sitting far enough down and thereby give you no end play. Normally the reverse drum should not affect end play as it has it own play.

axekick

iTrader: (18)

Sorry for asking the same question twice. I just wanted this thread to be searchable. Anyway, i have a sonnax shell on the way. I'll try to figure out how that beast is throwing off my end play and post results.

axekick

iTrader: (18)

I hate looking back and seeing how ignorant I was in old posts but that will probably happen again with this one. I have a couple questions.
My rebuild kit came with a new reverse boost valve. That's not the same as a boost valve, is it. I want to go ahead and get a new boost valve while I'm building it. Which one should i get?
Next, what is this spring that came in my kit? When I saw it, I thought "cool, it has a picture of where it goes." But I can't figure out how it is supposed to go now that I'm looking. The picture shows the valve from the picture removed and the new spring from the bag sitting to the right of it. What do I do with it?

mrvedit

If you are not installing the Transgo HD2 or Sonnax Performance Pack shift kits, then get the Sonnax 4L60E-LB1 boost valve (for '96 thru '05). It comes with the matching spring.

The K33799 spring that came with your rebuild kit is for very old pre '96 transmissions. Read the fine print - it says "Use this spring only with the valve train illustrated above non-pwm units". All '96 and later are PWM.
If you are not installing the Transgo HD2 or Sonnax Performance Pack shift kits, then you should consider installing an on/off TCC valve. A good choice is the "Techpak Fitxall 1870 Code Fixer 4L60E" - note there is only model for '96 thru '00 and a different one for '01 on up.

Or just get the Sonnax Performance Pack - it includes the boost valve, a slightly different on/off TCC valve, pinless pistons, torlon check-*****, their Servo Release Check valve, and springs to stiffen the 1-2 and 2-3 shift a bit. And good instructions.

axekick

iTrader: (18)

Thanks for the info and part #s. I'd get the performance pack but my kit came with some of those things and i already bought pinless pistons.

axekick

iTrader: (18)

Holy ****. I don't know if I have the patience for this. I just installed the TG High rev spring kit in the 3-4 and forward springs. The little hooks wouldn't hold the tension so i busted them off and balance the springs on there while I assembled it.

How the hell do you get the input and reverse drum and band all in there. I can get the drum assembly in fine but not if the band is in place but I can't get the band in if the drum is in. Errrrrr! I'm losing. I'm pretty sure I need to order a new band now since I scratched mine trying to slide the drum in past it.

mrvedit

First, you are not supposed to use the spring hooks when using the Transgo spring kit. You just have to assemble things carefully.

I keep the valve body off and install the input and reverse drum without the band. Then I install the band and hook it with the pin under the separator plate. I don't think a scratch on the band will matter.

Just don't rush things.

axekick

iTrader: (18)

You're very right. I got up this morning, read your post and went out in the garage to snap a picture of how it wasn't working and I got it together in about a minute. I just need to quit when it's quitting time. It feels just like when I was in college. I'd get stuck on a difficult math problem, go to bed all frustrated ready to bang my head and cry like a girl. Then I'd wake up and look at it and ahve it solved with my first cup of coffee. That happened a lot.

About the springs, what is supposed to be included? 3-4 clutch, obviously. Forward? Reverse? Is there an extra set to account for the different types of 3-4 springs? Lo/reverse isn't included, right. The instructions have pictures but it seems a little vague.

mrvedit

You only need stiffer springs for the 3-4 clutch to handle high rpm. "Need" is even a relative term - not all builders are in favor of them. The stiffer springs help the 3-4 clutch disengage quickly (not drag) during a 3-2 downshift. However they can slow down the 2-3 upshift. You definitely want to drill the 3rd feed hole bigger and run a boost valve when using them; obviously the HD-2 kit does both. A .101 or even .120 size for the 3rd feed hole works well.

I measured the stiffness of the stock and TG springs, calculated the difference in centrifugal force between 5500 rpm (stock springs) and my 7000 rpm shifts and decided to use a combination of stock and stiffer TG springs. I posted pics and some info in this thead:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...rn-spring.html
That is just my personal preference; lots of builders have used all of the TG springs and found that to work well.

Since you are not disengaging the forward or reverse clutches at high speed, there is less need for stiffer springs there. The low/reverse clutch is only applied in [D1] and [R], so no need there either.

CORRECTION: I do install the Transgo forward spring cage springs too; but only replace half of the stock springs with the stiffer TG springs.

axekick

iTrader: (18)

Ha! Well those springs are in. I also put the forward ones in but not the reverse ones. The whole reason for me to start this build is that my current transmission will just miss the shifts if I get into my cam's power range. So I'll be spinning it up once in a while if this thing works after my build. If it doesn't work, I'll try again. I'll absolutely take your advice on the pressure mods. I wasn't going to drill the plate but I know 2-3 can always use some help. I'll order the boost valve today too. I'd get the HD-2 but it comes with a lot of things I already have.

mrvedit

If you are going to order things, why not get the Sonnax Servo release check valve too. It is only $15 or so. While some builders think it is unnecessary, I think Sonnax is making some great products. Also it calls for drilling the 3rd feel hole to .120 (or .125=1/8") which provides plenty of volume for the 2-3 shift. Just follow the directions carefully and remember to drill the valve according to instructions. Before installation, I tap the inside of the valve with 5/16" thread so that I can screw in a bolt to pull out the valve if needed.

axekick

iTrader: (18)

I have one. It looks like there is already one in my case but I'll swap it in case it was done wrong. After all, that trans clearly failed. I'd hate for it to fail again for something the last guy did wrong that I skipped over.

mrvedit

RE: Sonnax Servo Release Check Valve

One builder told me he doesn't like to use them because he has seen them get gummed up and clogged. However I suspect that by the time this valve gets gummed up, the rest of the valve body is gummed up too.

You should be able to pull it out with needle nose pliers. It only needs to fit snuggly and is held in by the separator plate. It is supplied with an o-ring in case it is loose in the case; it is then very tight and you might need a threaded bolt to pull it out.

---------

I'll bet you are learning a lot! Hopefully enjoying it too (most of the time).

thunderstruck507

iTrader: (18)

Not sure if it will help you but my dad breaks the bottom tong off the band before install so that it isn't such a pain in the ***. He says it is only there to help hold the band in place during the assembly process.

I forget what he said holds it in post assembly but I know he does them all this way and has never had an issue. I've seen some bands that didn't appear to even be made with them.

axekick

iTrader: (18)

Yeah, that part was in the way. I just pushed the drum out of the way and slit that part in the correct place and it worked. I'll shoot a couple of pics as I finalize this thing. I still have a lot to do. I think the valve body is new (slightly used) but I want to take it apart and get it very clean. I'll have to wait for my TCC valve fix and boost valve now anyway before I'm totally done.

axekick

iTrader: (18)

This thing is going slow. It'd be a weekend thing if you could go to the auto part store and grab parts for it. I tore up a couple things. The teflon rings on the stator got shredded when I installed the pump. I think I was a little careless pressing the drum bushings on so they're not perfect for the rings to slide in. I also pressed the front stator bushing a little too hard and chipped it. Then I was trying to get the band out to get the drum out and it got cocked. I tried to us a screwdriver to un-**** it and damaged it. All lessons learned but a set back none the less. I ordered a new front stator bushing, both reverse drum bushings and teflon rings. I got 4 of those in case I mess them up again. I have a resizer tool that a shop in Nevada makes. They sell them on ebay. I got their whole kit. I'll be more careful to keep the bushings perfect and it should all go together fine.

Also, I got my Fitzall TCC valve, but i have a question. My stock valve doesn't quite look like the one in the picture in the install instructions. Did I get the wrong valve? Do I install the small piece, then the new valve without the spring? It will all go in there, I just need to know if it's right before I try to run it. Here's a pic: