wabmorgan

http://money.cnn.com/2009/02/05/news...mbly/index.htm

TT632

iTrader: (3)

They are only surprised because they have not been through the lay offs we have seen over the last 25 years as they have gained market share at the expense of US jobs.

7998

iTrader: (1)

^^Well said^^

Irunelevens

They gained market share because of the offerings from the Big 3. It's not like they brainwashed people; the reputations are earned on both sides.

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

Well, they may have brainwashed people at least a little bit. The cars were (are) good but they're certainly not perfect, yet somehow the word (aka: excellent advertising campaigns/marketing) got spread around that they were just that.
If this weren't the case then people would be buying more Fusions and Malibus (cars that are truly competitive) right now, yet they're not. And why won't they? Brainwashing, bias and stubborness stemming from a different period in time.

25psi

It wasn't brainwashing that Toyota set out for. It was the inability of the Big 3 to produce quality cars in the late 80's-90's that got them in this position.

Malibus exterior is plain and boring. The interior is nice, but that alone wouldn't make me go out and purchase one. Compared to the styling of the Altima, Accord Coupe and Camry, I see know reason to look at a Malibu. Secondly, in order to establish a foundation to base reliability on, a car must be out for a couple of years. So there really isn't anything to go by yet regarding the Malibu.

This is Edmunds best and worst resale value for 2004:

Top 10

Toyota Tacoma
Toyota Prius
MINI Cooper
Toyota Tacoma
Porsche Carrera GT
Toyota Tacoma Regular Cab
Honda CR-V
Honda Insight
Scion XA
Acura TSX


Worst

Chrysler Sebring Coupe
Chevrolet Venture Van
Buick Park Avenue Sedan
Oldsmobile Alero Coupe
Ford Freestar Van
Dodge Intrepid Sedan
Oldsmobile Alero Sedan
Mercury Monterey Van
Oldsmobile Silhouette Van
Cadillac Seville Sedan

The reason I go back 4-5 years is to get a reality on how cars favor as time passes.

TT632

iTrader: (3)

Wow, Tacoma in 3 places. I'll sell you a perfect 04 Tacoma for low book.

Irunelevens

Exactly.

Jon5212

iTrader: (2)

But you always have opinions from car magazines that are biased and people just blindly follow them. I'm sorry but the hondas/toyota's from the 80's and early 90's were just as unimpressive as their American name branded competition.

Irunelevens

They weren't "impressive," but they were atleast reliable and put together reasonably well. Which is how/when they gained the reputation that they still hold.

25psi

Why is it when magazines are Pro-American, they're praised. But let them speak highly of a Japanese/Korean car and all hell breaks loose?

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

That's purely subjective and personal opinion.
I saw a new Malibu yesterday in a champagne/pearl type color with some nice factory alloy wheels and it didn't just look good, it actually stood out (again, only my opinion).
To say that a Camry has loads of style and pizzazz while this new Malibu does not is akin to saying that meat that was kept cold in a Kenmore refrigerator at 30 degrees tastes far better than meat stored in a Maytag refrigerator at 30 degrees. Two plain ol' boring yet reliable and roomy sedans, that's all they are.
I personally find the current Camry's exterior to be quite unattractive now that you mention it, the Accords aren't bad (especially the coupe as you'd mentioned) but the Camry looks a little like the creature from the Alien movies to me.

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

For the same reason that magazines which are Pro-Japan/Korea get praised yet when they are Pro-American they are panned/bashed I suppose?
Goes both ways dude.

25psi

Look at the Malibu from the back. The wheels are to close together! It seems it would flip over from the slightest maneuver. I'm not saying the Camry is a head turner....but from a reliability standpoint, it's what people want.

I guess people associate Malibu, Taurus, Focus, Impala with rental cars and fleet sales. This makes them less desirable in my eyes. Honestly, why would I want to drive something that Policemen drive or what Rentacar offers?

25psi

That rarely happens considering they never win

jimmy169

That's just not true, word didn't get out because of advertising...


It got out because of people like my friend who used his toyota camry to save up for the car he really wanted, the camry he had was over 300k mile's, toyota didn't pay him to market that...


Not saying Toyota cars are perfect, nor that today's cars are anything like their yesteryear's cars, but Toyota and Honda have earned their respect and now American cars need to earn theirs back. It'll take time because word of mouth probably won't spread until these new models are old enough to withstand the test of time, thats when people start talking if they can withstand the mileage and abuse.

SS#8788

iTrader: (3)

Well, I'll start spreading the word. My mom's '98 cavalier had 225k on it when she sold. Nothing but reg maintenance. My 89 S-10 has something over 200k on it and still runs like a champ. Again, nothing but reg maintenance. Also, what about that guy in Wisconsin that just hit 1 million miles on his '91 silverado. I don't remember hearing about that on the news, but I do recall someone with a honda hitting 1 million and he was on the news...

Irunelevens

Your mom must have the needle in the haystack, because Cavaliers are famous for two things; 1) Being horribly unsafe in crashes, and 2) Being unreliable. And the reason the '91 Silverado hitting a million miles is no big deal is because it's 18 years old. The Accord that hit 1.4 million miles (I do believe) was back sometime around 2004. And it was a '94 model I think. And your '89 S10 with 200k is all well and good, but my mom put 245k on her '91 Legend in 7 years. Dad put 235k on his '87 Accord in 13 years. My '94 Integra had 193k miles on it when I sold it, and it was 10 years old. So it's not just mileage, it's how long the miles are accrued.

ICEMAN 31

ha lincoln kicks every carmakers *** wen it comes to reliability my dad in his stable has over 4 lincolns with 250k plus and some with 350k plus. And its not a rareity in the limo buisness. Chances are ever lincoln limo you see out there has over 200k on the oddometer. I had my lincoln at 500k plus before I sold her in perfect running condition. The cars in my dads fleet average a add on of 110k miles a year the way there run.

BTTM

iTrader: (1)

I've always bought American. My only adventure into the foreign market was a Honda that blew up with 50K on it. My TA has over 200k on it and runs like brand new. My Grand Prix before it had over 200K on it as well. My friend has a F150 that has over 500k on it. For every foreign car that has high mileage I can show an american model that has high mileage and performs well too.

Remember, american automakers have to deal with unions and foreign automakers don't. That's an expense that is astronomical for american automakers and extra money that foreign automakers can put into R&D and purchasing better materials, etc.

I say let's level the playing field. Either get rid of the UAW altogether or require that automakers with plants in American unionize. Then lets do a comparison on american vs. foreign.