LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

The all important (and all too often overlooked) trickle down effect. Tax dollars are KEY to our survival, the military, police, fire departments etc are paid with those tax dollars. The military protects our citizens from foreign (and domestic) enemies and harm.
We haven't even begun to see the true fallout/widespread reverberating effects of these Chrysler/GM issues.
There might some day come a (very very bad) time when everyone in the U.S. that never considered purchasing a new domestic nameplate vehicle truly wishes they had...regardless of what principles, rights or desires they felt those purchases might've invaded.
Remember, pay me now or pay me later.

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

Well, no, one can't really say that either. That approach gets tossed out when a member of our dedicated military/armed forces who puts his/his life on the line for the rest of us is seen driving a Toyota and wearing Italian shoes. I wouldn't DARE try and tell that person that they care less about America than the average insurance salesman or restaurant chef who drives a Chevrolet does.
But again, if one's loyalty is to only Japanese or German vehicles and subsequently providing large sums of dollars to another nation's tax base and GDP, how do I know for sure that their loyalty for the more important things such as governement policy and/or support of our military aren't questionable as well?
Now, buying a GM/Ford/Chrysler product certainly doesn't automatically prove one's faithfulness/loyalty to the U.S. armed forces/government either but that is at least how it used to be (WWII, Korea etc) and it worked well then so maybe it's a start?

KeyserWS6

There are a million ways to show how much you care about this country; buying a vehicle that was made in America is just one of them. Given the nature of the forums we're currently on, let's keep this in the context of "when it comes to buying a new car."

I'm saying that if you're going to buy a new car, and you choose to test drive and ultimately buy an American car, you are helping the American economy more than someone who doesn't. I'm not talking about any other areas of their life (serving in the armed forces, flying the American flag, etc.) or that you "hate America" (which is absurd) if you don't buy American.

Anyway, I didn't mean to hijack the thread, honestly. Someone just made a statment I disagreed with and wanted to comment on is all.

PopaPork

iTrader: (4)

Are you serious????? You judge a persons loyalty to the country and other important things by the car they drive? Is that what I'm reading there? Really?

So if I drive a BMW, but sit on my local RNC committee, pettition for vet rights, and all the other jazz out there, you still question a persons loyalty.

Yea it worked 50 years ago...the world was different 50 years ago. As was said earlier, everyone else is catching up or surpassing...maybe we should have to instead of sit on our lurals.

proporio

It seems pretty clear to me from what he said- "if one's loyalty is to only Japanese or German vehicles""how do I know for sure that their loyalty for the more important things such as governement policy and/or support of our military aren't questionable as well?"

---buying a Japanese or German vehicle makes your loyalty questionable---

my wife's Pathfinder makes my loyalty to this country questionable.
LS1LT1 said it, popapork

Spoolin

iTrader: (8)

I think you guys are confusing loyalty and Patriotism with the wrong ideal..
My loyalty isn't for this country, it's for our constitution. If the U.S. becomes a communist country my *** is moving and bringing a copy of our constitution with me to remind me of what I used to be proud of and represent.

TT632

iTrader: (3)

I really don't appreciate you and proporio hi jacking this thread. If you want to continue goading people into this arguement you can start your own thread on the topic.

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

Wait, do you actually believe that buying a Pathfinder makes your loyalty less questionable?
Or simply that it shouldn't matter?

So let's say that I just sent money to the VFWs of China, Russia, Germany and Japan but gave NOTHING to the VFW or any Veteran Memorial Funds within the U.S.
Do you believe that was/is a perfectly ethical, patriotic and American thing to do?
And please don't give me the "well that's different, you're talking about people and I'm talking about a freakin' car".
It's not different, it's still about money. It's still about where tax dollars are generated/spent. It's all about support.
A good providing man cheats on his wife with other women, is he still a great husband?
A well respected crossing guard steals from her town's local library, is she still a great asset to the community?
Just curious exactly where one draws the line on loyalty and unspoken obligation.
If you buying a Pathfinder is a perfectly fine and harmless act, then I suppose that if EVERYONE in the U.S. were to buy only Pathfinders (or 4Runners, RX350s, MDXs etc.) then there should be absolutely no harm in that either, right?
There'd be no more Ford, GM or Chrysler to provide employment/tax dollars of course but I suppose we could all simply rely on Nissan, Toyota and Honda (aka: Japan Inc.) to take up the slack and put the United State's interests first before their own country's LOL.
Yes we have the freedom to buy what we want and that's how it should be.
But should there be no lines drawn on that whatsoever? If every U.S. citizen chose to purchase strictly only import brand name/offshore manufactured products at all times do you feel that they they truly should be permitted to? Even if it were to ultimately lead to our demise as an economically great/strong nation?

I thought pride, honor and at least some semblance of loyalty for ALL things that are American still meant something in this country, apparently not.

technical

LS1LT1, proporio,

Can it also work on a percentage basis as well? I mean, I've owned 7 Chevy vehicles (still own the SS) and now my driver is a VW. So am I like 50% loyal or can I aggregate karma points for the last 6 cars/trucks? Can I factor in my wife's HHR too? What if I buy a BMW or Toyota like the kind that is built here in this country in a factory that employs 100's - 1000's of American workers? ****! does that mean I'm screwed because my Camaro was built in Canada? **** me, am I Canadian now? I didn't know there was so much involved in buying a car that it could switch my nationality.

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

I'm guilty of that as well, my apologies.

Back to the Malibu kudos!

technical

On a separate note. My parents have a Malibu and it's a damn fine car. It doesn't surprise me at all if a foreign car lover fell in love with a new Malibu.

TT632

iTrader: (3)

If they can do it with the Trucks and the Malibu they have it within GM to do well on the other lines. Getting their financial books in order are a bigger issue than vehicle quality at this point in time.

Blakbird24

iTrader: (24)

TV - Sony XBR (made in San Diego)
Stereo - Audiosource amps (made in Oregon), and I build my own speakers, using Dayton components (made in Dayton, Ohio).
shoes - Oakley (made in Foothill Ranch, California)
tires - Goodyear Eagle (made in Topeka, Kansas)
computer - Build my own
furniture - La-Z-Boy (made in Monroe, Michigan)
tools - Craftsman (nuff said)

Notice how every one of these brands is considered the best or one of the best in it's respective arena.

proporio

LS1LT1 is the one that equates car ownerhip to loyalty to your country, he will have to field this one. I believe in a free market system. That must make me a socialist with questionable loyalties according to LS1LT1 criteria.

Irunelevens

You are talking about where your products are ASSEMBLED, not necessarily where the parts are made. I highly doubt Sony XBR parts are made in America, same with the parts in your "build my own" computer. If so, then me buying my 2005 Frontier contributed more to the US economy than a new 4th gen F-body, because my Frontier was assembled in America. And it didn't just have foreign parts.

Blakbird24

iTrader: (24)

I'm not arguing that. It's impossible to fill that list with stuff made completely in America of American made parts. For example - you can't buy a new television that is assembled in America of parts built in America. That just doesn't exist. My example was to get as american as one can actually get with NEW stuff.

I certainly don't put forth the opinion that you should buy ONLY 100% american goods. But I do hold the opinion that you should be just as focused on where the product you are buying is made as you are on how much it costs. If an item that is made in america costs 2x-3x as much as one made elsewhere, I don't blame you for buying that other product. But when you buy foreign junk just to save $200 on a $2000 item, I say you are turning your back on your country.

If you are buying a car at a time when your country's automotive industry is floundering, you owe it to them to take a serious look at what they have to offer.

TT632

iTrader: (3)

Well, I hate that the Fast and the Furious generation has brought this thread into the usual argument that always pops up in this section. I would hope that this type of discusion would stay on the Honda Forums where it belongs.

All in all if you want to spend your money on Japanese/German/Korean cars and Chinese widgets at Walmart that is your own business. Going forward GM will continue to employ more Americans than all of the Foreign manufacturers combined. And with all of the new little cars coming from abroad, the Foreign companies will continue to errode our market to thier benefit. The Japanese and Germans will continue to keep their own workers employed in mass relative to ours as they always have.

And to the globalization champions; Once fuel gets too expensive to ship foreign goods half way around the world, you won't be able to afford them anyway.

CrabhartLS1

What car company you've had luck with is just as good a reason as any to buy any modern car. It takes a lot to make someone bite the piece of corn with wires sticking out of it again.

I would never own a ford based on my experiences with a windstar and my friend's experience with replacing the engine in his f250 3 times in under 70k miles. I would never own a bmw based on the problem with their I6's ticking under high load. I would never own a toyota based on my mom's camry. However every single GM car I have driven has had rock solid reliability. That's as big a reason as any why I am still a GM fanboy. If my truck or my camaro spun a bearing I probably wouldn't have brought myself to own another GM car for a long time.

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

x 100





Yes but according to many on this board it is clearly dead wrong for the citizens of those nations to actually care about buying vehicles from (as well as employing) their own.
Or is it ok for them to be nationalistic and proud and only wrong when some of us over here try and live by that code?





Nah, the devoted/dedicated import nameplates only buyer will ALWAYS find a way to obtain their ride.
Or they'll just build them here and circumvent the tariff/tax system (as has conveniently been heavily imposed on our exported vehicles) as they've been doing for 25 years now all while still NOT allowing Americans to freely set up businesses and build/market too many vehicles over there of course.

PopaPork

iTrader: (4)

So if you buy a Toyota made in the states it's ok from what your saying? You know, since the employ Americans. Good gotcha.


TT Sorry 'hijack' your thread, but
1) Free country love it or leave it (a bit childish but oh well)

2) It really infuriates me when people jump on this site and question peoples patriotism and loyalty by what car they drive when it's a ****** free market and the world is based on capitalism and free trade (Please don't lecture me on "Oh it's not free, we are taxed more then the other guys" That wasn't the point of the statment). GM had their hay day, and they screwed up, and people left. Good for them that they are stepping up to the plate and finally making cars that people want, even though they had to sell off half their ****. Good for them. I really am thrilled that they are doing the right thing and not only making reliable cars now but cars that actually look decent. I honestly would look at purchasing a new car from Ford if I was in the market, GM, Chrysler not so much due to their financial state.

Plus the fact that these people have no clue who anyone is that they are judging besides a ******* screen name on some ******* internet forum. They have no clue who that person is, what they do for a living, who they donate their time or money to, what charities are close to their hearts, who their family’s work for, nothing. They are ignorant and just plain ******** if they think because of the car that might be in my/their garage makes them any less of an American or love our country any less.

3) I think it's just as nuts to think that people don’t use past experiences, and other peoples reviews of a product when they purchase cars or cloths, or whatever else they made need. Everyone keeps saying ‘History repeats it’s self’ when they talk about the economy and what’s going on around us now, and they are right, so if someone bought a 92 Pontiac and had it blow up in 45,000 miles, why would they run out to buy another one when they are more expensive now and when their neighbors Honda ran to 200,000 with oil changes? It doesn’t matter that people on here say “Oh my truck lasted me 300,000 with nothing wrong ”Maybe if you were that guys neighbor that had a horrible experience he would have bought a truck instead of the Honda. Past buying experiences are huge plain and simple and till the world/nation/the guy next door all have Malibu’s or whatever in their drive way, people are still gonna look at the import guys. Your buddy is a perfect example his last experience has changed his mind about Chevy. I wonder what would have happened though if he got in one of those butt ugly Luminas from the mid 90s? Or one of those hideous Monte Carlos from early 2000’s Think he would be head over heals still? Maybe GM should give everyone a pass for a day to drive one of their cars around all day long to prove to everyone that they are back at the top?


My dad had 89 suburban when I was a kid. It was worked 454, ¾ ton, 4:10 rear, it was made for towing mountains, and the thing sucked ***** it couldn’t tow a travel trailer up a hill with out shitting the bed. It was in the dealer every other week with problems, from no power, computer problems water pumps you name it had it. Finally he got tired of nickling and diming it, he bought a Dodge Diesel instead, and since day one has had no problems. He will never buy a Chevy again because of that truck. Look at that, his past experience played a roll in the type of car is going to get…who would have thought. He will probably buy 10 more cars in his life time, and none will be a GM name plate. Past experience.



And finally….”Well, I hate that the Fast and the Furious generation has brought this thread into the usual argument that always pops up in this section. I would hope that this type of discussion would stay on the Honda Forums where it belongs.” What the **** does that mean? Are implying just because I and a few others don’t jump on the “Oh holy GM, how great you are, You have done nothing wrong ever, I will always blindly buy you, no matter what” I’m a Fast and the Furious Generation???? Just for the record, I have only own 2 cars in my life, one 89 Camaro, and on 02 Camaro and my fiancé has only own two jeeps. So please if you think I’m a fan boy, go take a long walk of a very short pier.