huskerZ28

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/05/g...rbo-diesel-v8/


looks like a great motor for people who want more towing than a traditional 1/2 ton but dont need as much as a 3/4 ton or 1 ton pickup. also it will give you more power and better fuel economy than the normal small block equipped 1/2 tons.

however, while i do see myself buying a new truck within the next 5 years, i dont see this being one of them and here's why: the motor will probably be a 1500+$ option like the current hd durmamax 6.6. And on top of that diesel is about 60 cents more per gallon than gasoline. so while im sure the motor will get much better mileage than a normal small block, i doubt it will be so much better as to make up for the extra cost of buying diesel over gasoline.

plus since i live in corn country i have easy access to e-85. which is about 40 cents cheaper than e10 (89 octane), about 60 cents cheaper than 87 octane and about 1.50$ cheaper than diesel. plus, i do some towing from time to time but the small block has always been just fine for me. and i guess if i was real serious about towing i would just get a hd pickup.

so while its a sweet motor and im sure this motor will help with government mandates and might make the hippies feel a little better, i dont see myself getting one.

whats your take?

2000Hawk

iTrader: (5)

I love it, i can't wait to see them fall into the Silverados and the Sierras. But if gas prices keep going the way they are, this might hurt more than actually help.
-Joel

Hydramatic

Beautiful motor, even if it is a tad convoluted. I really want to see this in the Camaro...

TriShield

Just in time for expensive diesel fuel, effectively negating any benefit in higher fuel economy over gasoline V8s. You're also looking at over $1,000 more on top of the MSRP. Probably more. Way too late to the party.

And please God keep this thing out of the Camaro.

Nobody buys an American muscle car to hear diesel clatter, a slow revving engine with a 4,000 RPM redline, front heavy iron block and black smoke belching out the back when the emissions equipment goes wrong.

WECIV

Trishield, modern diesels do not have to be what you are making them out to be. Modern European diesels in cars are excellent. This would be a beauty in a new M@RO. I can imagine around 40 MPG, 400 HP, and a ton of torque. I would love it.

W

TriShield

Yes, actually they still do. Compared to modern gasoline engines they are still noisey, they are still heavy, they are still very complex (especially with the emissions equipment and scrubbers required to get them to pass stringent emissions standards), and still cost substantially more to purchase and maintain over a gasoline engine.

But the most compelling reason of all this should never end up in a Camaro isn't because it would ruin the Camaro's image and not provide authentic muscle car feel and sound, it's because nobody would buy such a thing.

Jakes Dad

My thoughts - most of us have long forgotton the reason for a truck. Trucks carry cargo, are used for work, or towing. I bought my smoker to tow. It's two states away from my house on the farm. Hopefully GM continues to improve all engines including the diesel.

Jakes Dad

sb427f-car

My opinion of this powerplant just went down upon reading "urea injection." Rather have had a regenerative mode like the net big d-max has, but I'm guessing that would have come at the cost of space.

Regarding diesel premium and efficencies. The poster is correct that the premiums on the engines keep going up (not just the price to build but on the overall fuel economy keeps getting smashed with the removal of energy to make ultra low sulfur diesel and the fact that the scrubbers, EGR valves, ect take away from the efficency), but diesels still deliver more ~40% overall efficency (relative gas is only 30%). That 10% is made up over the life of the engine though, even with the more expensive fuel.

Regarding maintenance costs, I'd say they are marginally more, but considering the average diesel would out run a gas vehicle by @ least 2:1, you purchase one less vehicle in your life time (BIG cost savings).

Just some quick thoughts. Wonder if the cummins v-8 light duties are going to use urea injection to solve their NOx problems?

Spoolin

iTrader: (8)

I'd love to get one, Diesel's are the cheapest things to mod and get the most bang for your buck. I'd rather hate to see one in a Camaro too, but you'd sure surprise people who weren't expecting it!

DrkPhynx

No, WECIV is right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmZgmK4nk0w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2MmAJm_mhw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3iBKwcQ3Yc (p1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poCsdMrm998 (p2)

They will get lighter, they will spin faster. And they DO offer higher potential power, and better mpg. A VW Lupo Diesel got 70mpg in an average, daily driving commute test - a Prius got 45mpg in the same test with the same driver.

Also, with AFM, HCCI, VVT, and Variable Intakes, gassers are not exactly simply machines anymore either. (speaking of complexity)

2002_Z28_Six_Speed

iTrader: (19)

What about range? Diesel has better range.

sb427f-car

That's effectivley fuel mileage. So yes, you are correct.

2002_Z28_Six_Speed

iTrader: (19)

Right but thinking of it more from the benefit of not having to stop and not the economics. Basically, even if the price is higher per mile some people don't want to stop as frequently [cross country, rural] even disregarding the price.

Plus there is liability with some vehicles transportation vehicles. Diesel doesn't flash ignite as bad.

sb427f-car

Actually, it's almost imposible to get diesel to flash ignite, but when it does, look out.

I would think that is a very minimal amount of "liability" calculation though.

Diesels are still more efficent and even with the increased price in the engine option and the added fuel costs, there is still a theoretical breakeven point vs. a gasoline engine, and at that point, you start to recoup the costs beyond what that of a gasoline motor will do for you. Remember, if you buy a diesel that doesn't break even until 100k miles, and expect that you can continue to drive the vehicle for 300k miles, chances are, you've probably bought two gasoline powered vehicles in that time frame. So your sunk costs like maintenance are somewhat equal, but then you also have the added vehicle purchase price of a second gasoline vehicle.

Point? Buying a diesel means you are gonna drive it for a long time to be able to recover the initial purchase price. Buying a gasoline engine means you will recover the value of your initial purchase price sooner, but will also not have the length of service.

BanditTA

iTrader: (3)

Rumor was, back when i read about this engine 3-4 months ago, they were shooting for a high 20's maybe 30mpg out of this diesel in a half ton.

sb427f-car

Yeah, that was the target.

LS1LT1

iTrader: (16)

I like it too.
Imagine this thing in a Canyon/Colorado with a manual trans and some cleverly chosen bolt ons.

Hydramatic

In a market where even 1 mpg is a huge improvement towards CAFE requirements, this sounds like it could almost single handedly bring GM the sales they used to enjoy from their trucks, as well as make a better product IMO.