demonpixel

iTrader: (19)

Ok, I've got three things left to do on the checklist before bringing the car to the tuning shop. One of those things is to finish bleeding the brakes.

I put new brake lines and fittings on the car, so the system was totally dry. I put brake fluid in the master cyl, and pumped the brake pedal. I found quite a few leaks, almost all the fittings I put together in fact.

Two of them I tightened and they seemed to go away, but others I tightened and they're still leaking. I forgot to take pics last night so I drew it out for you guys to see. I've never done my own brakes before - I did get a new double flaring tool, practiced with it for a while, and the flares looked decent, so I'm not sure what the reasons for the leaks are.

This is the proportioning valve I'm using, if it makes any difference (all fittings going into it are 3/16"):



This is the first issue, the leak is coming from where the tube goes into the head part of the fitting, NOT the threads (the threads are totally dry):



And here is the second issue, the rubber brake hose that goes into the caliper has like a rectangular metal block at the end of it, that has a hole in it for a bolt that holds it to the caliper. It's NOT leaking between the block and the caliper, it's leaking from where the rubber meets the rectangular metal block:



Car is a 93 Camaro (with LS1). So has anyone done their own brake lines or run into issues like these before? The brake pistons aren't pushing AT ALL.

Thanks a ton for any help or advice.

rao

iTrader: (18)

First, you are one hell of an artist

As for the lines, I am not an expert, but it seems like at the proportioning valve you might have the wrong type of flare or the flare is not made correctly. At the claiper it seems like you are missing a part of the fitting.

ls1nova71

iTrader: (4)

If you're getting fluid leaking from the line and not the threads, thats usually an indication of a bad flare, or the line isn't tight enough. Did you double flare them? Take the line out of the prop block and make sure the flare is "centered" on the line, if it's not sometimes they'll leak. Also while it's out, look in the hole it threads into and make sure the area where the flare seals (should be the opposite angle as the flare) dosen't have any damage to it, gouges, ect.

As for the caliper, I'm not familiar with that style, but I would think it should have some kind of seal between the line and the caliper, like maybe a copper washer or something.

BTW, nice drawings, do you draw for a living?

demonpixel

iTrader: (19)

Thanks for the compliment rao. I coulda sworn the proportioning valve I got was for 3/16" inverted flares...here's the link to it from Summit that has more info: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SU...0/?image=large

I might go to the parts store when I get off of work and see if they have a replacement for that rubber hose assembly. That will hopefully take care of at least that one leak.

demonpixel

iTrader: (19)

Definitely the kind of advice I need, thank you!! I will inspect the flares tonight; I know that one of them wasn't perfectly centered. It's actually pretty difficult to get it PERFECTLY centered with a $30 flare tool.

As for the caliper, yeah I was thinking that the leak was coming from between the little metal block and the caliper, but it's actually leaking out of where the rubber meets the metal block. when you remove the rubber hose from the caliper, the little metal block comes with it, like it's all one assembly if that makes sense. man i really wish i took pics. i was too angry and frustrated to get the camera. lol

good call on the drawing, i actually do draw for a living. i do multimedia for an ad agency; graduated with a bachelor of fine arts degree.

ls1nova71

iTrader: (4)

If it's leaking where the rubber is crimped to the metal block part, then definitly try a new hose. No way it should ever leak there.

demonpixel

iTrader: (19)

Yeah, weird huh?

I found a pic so here's what I was trying to show with my drawing:

HILROD

There are copper washers that go between the Hose and Caliper. Try some new ones. Also some of the adjustable valves I've used needed adapter fittings as the body of the valves are tapped for pipe thread. If you remove the line from the adjustable valve , what is in the hole?

demonpixel

iTrader: (19)

Do you mean a copper washer between the little metal block and the caliper?

I will remove the line from the proportioning valve tonight, shine a light in there, take a snap and show ya.

I just have to wait another five hours to do so. Bleh.

Nashty

iTrader: (7)

I am just finishing up my own brake lines. I used Copper / nickel line (made specifically for brakes, not ice maker Menards copper line - but it looks like it), flares like butter. If you have to redo or do a bunch of it, I HIGHLY recommend it. Easy to bend too !!

Your double flare is bad. Did you tighten the heck out of the second part of the flare? Might have work hardened the material / thinned it so much it can't conform and seat properly.

About the rusty brake line? Throw it away, it will end up rusting out and leaking and you will crash into a busload of children and become the most hated man on earth. BTW, the copper stuff will never rust.

demonpixel

iTrader: (19)

What if the bus is full of bad children? jk

Yes I did tighten the heck out of the second part of the flare. BUT I thought I left enough metal. I tightened so that the metal point went down inside to a 45º angle.

Since I'm taking pics of everything tonight anyway, I'll take pics of that too. You're probably right, maybe the metal thinned a little too much.

demonpixel

iTrader: (19)

Finally got home and was able to take some pics:





(^^I think that flare is a little lopsided. I thought it would work ok though. I guess not, since it is leaking.)

Leaking at these fittings also:


Proportioning valve with ghetto bracket:

LS1MCSS

iTrader: (18)

Look at this picture. Do you have a washer in there where the arrow is?

ls1nova71

iTrader: (4)

There should be a copper washer on the other side of the block as well, under the head of the bolt. I would suspect that it just looks like it's leaking where your arrow is, but is probably leaking where it mounts to the caliper. At any rate, I'd replace the hoses, they deteriorate from the inside, and if you've ever had one collapse inside, you can't tell by looking at it, but it will drive you crazy trying to figure out why you have a caliper hanging up.

demonpixel

iTrader: (19)

I will double check to see if there are copper washers. I'm assuming these are washers you can get from a hardware store, correct?

Pop N Wood

iTrader: (1)

Where did you buy the cupro nickle line at? When I got mine the cheapest source was in England.

demonpixel: you can get a box of copper washers from Harbor Freight. Your local hardware store might have them. They get work hardened when they have been used. If you have used ones, either replace them with new or anneal them to soften them up. You can anneal them by putting them on a brick, heating them with a propane torch until they glow orange, then letting them cool.

Having said all that, you really need to get rid of all those unions in your brake lines. Get yourself a 25 foot spool of brake line and some proper rubber coated clamps. The 90-10 copper stuff is the shiz if you don't mind dropping the coin. If nothing else they will make you feel like an expert when all of your flares don't leak.

But zip ties on brake lines doesn't instill much confidence in your passangers. These are cheap and install with a drill and sheet metal screws. That cross member is probably thick enough to tap some proper holes.

demonpixel

iTrader: (19)

Ah yeah, the zip ties are temporary just to hold the line in place.

x2, where did you get the copper line? also, do you need any special flaring tool with the copper line or will the cheapy one i have work ok?

Nashty

iTrader: (7)

http://www.fedhillusa.com/

Cunifer, don't remember the cost but I did the entire car in a 25' roll including the rear axle.

demonpixel

iTrader: (19)

Cool. What flaring tool did you use? Their flaring tool costs $330.

Pop N Wood

iTrader: (1)

I remember them now. They were a good bit more expensive than the place in England. Still are. $54 a coil vs $32 with the exchange rate.

http://www.automec.co.uk/frame_set.html

I bought fuel line with it, so even with shipping it was cheaper from the UK.

You can flare this stuff with any flaring tool. i got one like this. Works perfectly.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...F8&me=&seller=

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