LS1 and 200-4r to L92 / T56 in 71 Chevelle convertible...now Gen V LT1 6L80e swapping
10-30-2010, 09:08 AM
#22
Body work is going to have to wait until the car runs and drives which hopefully won't be too long, though I hate the cold and doubt I'll do much when it's anything more than chilly out. The plan is to get the motor place in, the old gas tank out and then take it to a shop here in town to be finished up and dyno tuned. I'll have them measure for a new driveshaft and get them to put it in for me as well.
Right now I have my flywheel at a machine shop having the holes elongated to fit my 200-4r. I have decided to pick up an electric fuel pressure gauge as well, so I was holding off on ordering fuel line until I see what fittings I need (I don't want to keep giving Summit $11 a pop to ship small orders).
I went with the spectra tank because I have seen the B-body alternative and simply don't like the looks of it. Cutting a hole in my trunk in not an option, but some people like the access to the fuel pump which I agree would be nice. My car is lowered a bit and will eventually be bagged I think so I don't want it hanging down. If I'm going to spend $$$ fixing this thing up I'm not going to lose my **** over an extra $250.
I've had a few random setbacks so far, p/s pump was stripped (couldn't get smaller pulley on), need a new dipstick, waiting on parts, etc etc, the usual stuff that seems small but really adds up over time. I'd like to be finished by January, so I can use that month to put in the power windows and seat back releases I got from a donor so I can take it to the upholsterers and have the new top put on by March. As long as it's ready for top-down weather I'll be happy.
Here is info on the fans that someone had asked for (I just copy/ pasted this from someone on chevelles.com)
30" wide 4" average depth on shroud, 6" with long motor (widest part of the whole thing) and 4-1/2" at small motor. 18" high.
2000 Ford Windstar Fan Assembly
left fan: 340ml= 13.3inches
right fan: 390ml=15.3inches
left fan: 60.3cmm=2129.193cfm
right fan: 64.4cmm=2273.964cfm
this was rated at 1935 RPMS
4403.157 cfm total......
$56 shipped, this is where I got mine. Pigtails are plentiful in yards as they made billions of these things: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/95-96...Q5fAccessories
Right now I have my flywheel at a machine shop having the holes elongated to fit my 200-4r. I have decided to pick up an electric fuel pressure gauge as well, so I was holding off on ordering fuel line until I see what fittings I need (I don't want to keep giving Summit $11 a pop to ship small orders).
I went with the spectra tank because I have seen the B-body alternative and simply don't like the looks of it. Cutting a hole in my trunk in not an option, but some people like the access to the fuel pump which I agree would be nice. My car is lowered a bit and will eventually be bagged I think so I don't want it hanging down. If I'm going to spend $$$ fixing this thing up I'm not going to lose my **** over an extra $250.
I've had a few random setbacks so far, p/s pump was stripped (couldn't get smaller pulley on), need a new dipstick, waiting on parts, etc etc, the usual stuff that seems small but really adds up over time. I'd like to be finished by January, so I can use that month to put in the power windows and seat back releases I got from a donor so I can take it to the upholsterers and have the new top put on by March. As long as it's ready for top-down weather I'll be happy.
Here is info on the fans that someone had asked for (I just copy/ pasted this from someone on chevelles.com)
30" wide 4" average depth on shroud, 6" with long motor (widest part of the whole thing) and 4-1/2" at small motor. 18" high.
2000 Ford Windstar Fan Assembly
left fan: 340ml= 13.3inches
right fan: 390ml=15.3inches
left fan: 60.3cmm=2129.193cfm
right fan: 64.4cmm=2273.964cfm
this was rated at 1935 RPMS
4403.157 cfm total......
$56 shipped, this is where I got mine. Pigtails are plentiful in yards as they made billions of these things: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/95-96...Q5fAccessories
Last edited by chuckd71; 10-30-2010 at 09:15 AM.
11-09-2010, 08:22 PM
#24
Having my wisdom teeth pulled Monday bought me a rare two consecutive days away from work so I managed to get a little bit done. Nothing major, but I did get to see the engine in the bay for at least a few minutes.
After picking up a p/s pulley from a 3.8L buick in a yard a couple weeks ago I found a non-hydroboost pump and at got it pressed on today, I also tapped the oil cooler block-off for my mechanical pressure gauge and tapped the side of this: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ATM-2282/
so I can run the steam vent into it.
Some returnless fuel rails are on the way ($35 from ebay, with injectors) and the injectors and timing set made it here.
Ls2 timing set was $40 or so shipped from someone on the classifieds here.
The cam swap is complete and the engine is back together, all it needs is the rocker studs torqued down which I'll do once I get a torque wrench. Sadly, when taking it off the stand one of the grade 8 bolts broke off in the block. Pretty much sucks ***, I don't know how to get it out. I'm sure it's possible, but I'm fairly sure I don't have the tools to do so.
If you know feel free to enlighten me.
Forgetting about that for the time being, I dropped the motor in for the first time ever to see where we were fit-wise. I think the mount plates I'm using will work and they have the engine high enough that the cts-v pan hangs roughly a quarter inch below the frame, which I can live with. Didn't think to check tie rods. The last fitment hurdle looks to be the rigid 200-4r dipstick tube which was preventing the motor from sliding into place, but I'm going to replace it with a flexible dipstick for a th350. I ordered some dynomax 17749 super turbo mufflers from amazon for $50ish a piece, and realizing that my car currently has a 2" exhaust I stopped by a local mom n pop exhaust shop for a quote on a 2.5" stainless setup with an H pipe and electric cutouts put in (assuming I can find a good deal on some e-cutouts in the classifieds here). They quoted me just over $300, which seems reasonable (I think, I haven't shopped around too much yet). The super turbos seem pretty popular over on chevelles.com amongst people looking for a somewhat quiet and non-droning yet noticeable exhaust note, but I haven't been able to turn up a video of anyone using them with th224 cam.
At this point I'm back to painting random things and watching as the last few warm days slip away while I wait for parts to come in. I painted the valve covers and timing covers silver out of boredom (looks much much better) just for an excuse to be outside. It was nice finally seeing it in the engine bay though.
After picking up a p/s pulley from a 3.8L buick in a yard a couple weeks ago I found a non-hydroboost pump and at got it pressed on today, I also tapped the oil cooler block-off for my mechanical pressure gauge and tapped the side of this: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ATM-2282/
so I can run the steam vent into it.
Some returnless fuel rails are on the way ($35 from ebay, with injectors) and the injectors and timing set made it here.
Ls2 timing set was $40 or so shipped from someone on the classifieds here.
The cam swap is complete and the engine is back together, all it needs is the rocker studs torqued down which I'll do once I get a torque wrench. Sadly, when taking it off the stand one of the grade 8 bolts broke off in the block. Pretty much sucks ***, I don't know how to get it out. I'm sure it's possible, but I'm fairly sure I don't have the tools to do so.
If you know feel free to enlighten me.
Forgetting about that for the time being, I dropped the motor in for the first time ever to see where we were fit-wise. I think the mount plates I'm using will work and they have the engine high enough that the cts-v pan hangs roughly a quarter inch below the frame, which I can live with. Didn't think to check tie rods. The last fitment hurdle looks to be the rigid 200-4r dipstick tube which was preventing the motor from sliding into place, but I'm going to replace it with a flexible dipstick for a th350. I ordered some dynomax 17749 super turbo mufflers from amazon for $50ish a piece, and realizing that my car currently has a 2" exhaust I stopped by a local mom n pop exhaust shop for a quote on a 2.5" stainless setup with an H pipe and electric cutouts put in (assuming I can find a good deal on some e-cutouts in the classifieds here). They quoted me just over $300, which seems reasonable (I think, I haven't shopped around too much yet). The super turbos seem pretty popular over on chevelles.com amongst people looking for a somewhat quiet and non-droning yet noticeable exhaust note, but I haven't been able to turn up a video of anyone using them with th224 cam.
At this point I'm back to painting random things and watching as the last few warm days slip away while I wait for parts to come in. I painted the valve covers and timing covers silver out of boredom (looks much much better) just for an excuse to be outside. It was nice finally seeing it in the engine bay though.
Last edited by chuckd71; 11-09-2010 at 08:38 PM.
11-10-2010, 05:44 AM
#26
The pump looks to be sitting in a something not unlike a fruit bowl in size and shape, so it's not really baffled but it's not just in an empty tank. If I were doing it over, I'd buy a non-efi tank, cut in half to baffle it and then put in a better pump. I only recently came across someone willing to help me with welding for a reasonable price, so when I originally ordered it was cheaper to go this route, and it's still going to be the easiest.
11-10-2010, 07:15 AM
#27
So it sounds like they have a built in sump. I would think that would be ok, that's about all GM does. My 68 corvette has an external pump, no sump, and I have to be careful cornering at less than 1/4 tank.
Looks like I'll have to modify my own though. I couldn't find a spectra efi tank listed for a 72 Olds.
Looks like I'll have to modify my own though. I couldn't find a spectra efi tank listed for a 72 Olds.
11-10-2010, 10:13 AM
#29
Sock the broke bolt in some PB Blaster or WD40 for a few days.. Looks like you have a stub of the bolt left. Could try it with a Vise Grip.. Also try giving it a good tap with a hammer 1st.
A few will tell you t weld a nut or something on it to get a better grip.
If that all failes. try drilling and a reverse easy out. Just make sure you get it close to center.. that way if the easy out fails... you can try drilling it down to the threads and pick the threads out leaving the block's thread intact.
A few will tell you t weld a nut or something on it to get a better grip.
If that all failes. try drilling and a reverse easy out. Just make sure you get it close to center.. that way if the easy out fails... you can try drilling it down to the threads and pick the threads out leaving the block's thread intact.
11-14-2010, 06:37 AM
#31
I can't weld, so that is out. Every time I go out to mess with the car I spray it with pb blaster so once I get a vise grip I'll give it another shot.
Some more parts came in and I gave the harness a test fit of sorts to see how everything is going to pan out. I have plenty of length as far as ecm wiring, so I should be able to put it almost anywhere. The routing of the fuel line is something I'm kind of iffy on though, but I'll save questions for the end.
I test fit the bowtie overdrive kit on the throttle body and everything seems okay on that front. Still have to put in the longer spring and the kickdown cable. The bracket is an odd shape and it's placement wasn't immediately obvious to me so I called BTO and they emailed me a pic. Nice guys. It looks like it just kind of sits beneath the stock bracket not really doing much, but if that's it that's it I guess.
Since I'm using a mechanical water temp gauge I picked up a radiator hose adapter from autometer (I couldn't find a cheap ebay alternative with the larger hole needed) and then drilled and tapped another hole to use for my steam vent. Now I don't have to worry about messing with drilling the water pump.
Kind of went overboard with the aluminum paint, but it looks better than dirty black. Most of it will be covered by plastic anyway. If I can find some I'm going to paint the center piece with white epoxy, in keeping with my interior theme.
A fuel pressure gauge I picked up in the classifieds here came in and will go in a pillar mount. My mech oil and water temp gauges are below the dash, stuck to the bottom of my radio holder. I used this to mount the cd player: Not the best picture but you get the idea:
I know there is a valve under the cap, but is there any way to mount the sender here on the rail? Or must it be in line?
[URL="[ame=http://www.flickr.com/photos/21527394@N06/5174735944/]
[/ame]"]http://www.flickr.com/photos/21527394@N06/5174735944/[/ame]
Some more parts came in and I gave the harness a test fit of sorts to see how everything is going to pan out. I have plenty of length as far as ecm wiring, so I should be able to put it almost anywhere. The routing of the fuel line is something I'm kind of iffy on though, but I'll save questions for the end.
I test fit the bowtie overdrive kit on the throttle body and everything seems okay on that front. Still have to put in the longer spring and the kickdown cable. The bracket is an odd shape and it's placement wasn't immediately obvious to me so I called BTO and they emailed me a pic. Nice guys. It looks like it just kind of sits beneath the stock bracket not really doing much, but if that's it that's it I guess.
Since I'm using a mechanical water temp gauge I picked up a radiator hose adapter from autometer (I couldn't find a cheap ebay alternative with the larger hole needed) and then drilled and tapped another hole to use for my steam vent. Now I don't have to worry about messing with drilling the water pump.
Kind of went overboard with the aluminum paint, but it looks better than dirty black. Most of it will be covered by plastic anyway. If I can find some I'm going to paint the center piece with white epoxy, in keeping with my interior theme.
A fuel pressure gauge I picked up in the classifieds here came in and will go in a pillar mount. My mech oil and water temp gauges are below the dash, stuck to the bottom of my radio holder. I used this to mount the cd player: Not the best picture but you get the idea:
I know there is a valve under the cap, but is there any way to mount the sender here on the rail? Or must it be in line?
[URL="[ame=http://www.flickr.com/photos/21527394@N06/5174735944/]
[/ame]"]http://www.flickr.com/photos/21527394@N06/5174735944/[/ame] Last edited by chuckd71; 02-10-2011 at 11:06 AM.
11-14-2010, 07:08 AM
#32
For the oil pressure gauge I did what others suggested and just tapped the block off plate above the oil filter.
I got the old gas tank out and had planned to pull the old exhaust but I wasn't sure the best way to go about it.
This is the level sender wire from the old tank:
And here are the wires coming from the new one:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21527394@N06/5174132969/
Does anyone know offhand which I need to splice in? For reasons I never got around to troubleshooting, my old gauge was never accurate and I was considering putting an autometer fuel gauge in the other hole in my pillar pod.
Here are a couple shots of the old fuel lines. I was planning on just hooking up the vents where they were before and blocking off the one in the center, or perhaps connecting two of them with a length of hose. I saw someone has posted what they did with them but I can't seem to find it. I'm not in a position where I can jack the car up and follow them so I have no real idea which goes to what.
Edit: Not sure how I missed this but it addresses the fuel hose stuff: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/235390...ord-ca-us?p=10
In the midst of all the acronyms I have forgotten what this was called. I'm not using the egr stuff, so do I need this anymore? The harness I had made for my setup doesn't have a plug for it, and given how thoroughly everything else was labeled I can't imagine it was just overlooked.
This tube is plugged into that thing.
Sort of on the same subject, this pcv tubing turned up in a larger order from a parts house and I'm not positive how it hooks up. Kind of thinking it might not be for a truck intake.
[IMG]http://www.flickr.com/photos/21527394@N06/5174735828/[/IMG
I got the old gas tank out and had planned to pull the old exhaust but I wasn't sure the best way to go about it.
This is the level sender wire from the old tank:
And here are the wires coming from the new one:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/21527394@N06/5174132969/
Does anyone know offhand which I need to splice in? For reasons I never got around to troubleshooting, my old gauge was never accurate and I was considering putting an autometer fuel gauge in the other hole in my pillar pod.
Here are a couple shots of the old fuel lines. I was planning on just hooking up the vents where they were before and blocking off the one in the center, or perhaps connecting two of them with a length of hose. I saw someone has posted what they did with them but I can't seem to find it. I'm not in a position where I can jack the car up and follow them so I have no real idea which goes to what.
Edit: Not sure how I missed this but it addresses the fuel hose stuff: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/235390...ord-ca-us?p=10
In the midst of all the acronyms I have forgotten what this was called. I'm not using the egr stuff, so do I need this anymore? The harness I had made for my setup doesn't have a plug for it, and given how thoroughly everything else was labeled I can't imagine it was just overlooked.
This tube is plugged into that thing.
Sort of on the same subject, this pcv tubing turned up in a larger order from a parts house and I'm not positive how it hooks up. Kind of thinking it might not be for a truck intake.
[IMG]http://www.flickr.com/photos/21527394@N06/5174735828/[/IMG
Last edited by chuckd71; 11-14-2010 at 07:47 AM.
11-14-2010, 07:20 AM
#33
Wiring This was wired in near the OBD port and after searching here it's for a malfunction light that comes on when the ecm grounds it. Having said that I'm not sure how to make it operable. I'm thinking wire in a light between this wire and a random hot wire from under the dash; if this is wrong feel free to correct me.
According to chevythunder.com even though I don't need it I should keep the VSS, using one of these: http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/Par...ctor-Diff.html
Has anyone used this? I'm no expert but I'm not sure I understand the importance of VSS when using a mechanical speedo.
One last thing I've run into is related to moving the engine into and out of the car. Right now I'm just using a chain bolted into the heads, but this is less than ideal given the potentially tight fit near the firewall. Do they make a plate I can bolt into the back of the head I can connect to and just leave once the motor is in?
According to chevythunder.com even though I don't need it I should keep the VSS, using one of these: http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/Par...ctor-Diff.html
Has anyone used this? I'm no expert but I'm not sure I understand the importance of VSS when using a mechanical speedo.
One last thing I've run into is related to moving the engine into and out of the car. Right now I'm just using a chain bolted into the heads, but this is less than ideal given the potentially tight fit near the firewall. Do they make a plate I can bolt into the back of the head I can connect to and just leave once the motor is in?
Last edited by chuckd71; 11-14-2010 at 07:28 AM.
11-14-2010, 07:47 AM
#34
I did an LQ9 and Richmond 6 speed in my 68 corvette.
You'll need VSS to avoid stalling problems. I got a Dakota digital that fits on the mechanical speedo output. The only problem is that it puts out fewer pulses per mile so it causes difficulty trying to hook up cruise control with the DBW TB. Thinking about ordering this one;
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G2887-1/
Cheaper and easier than the JTR unit.
Keep the pcv, all you need is the valve on the back of the valve cover to the intake.
The other pic is the purge solenoid for the canister, you can loose it.
The fuel level operates by varied resistance. Your old setup was between the tank (ground) and the one wire hookup to the gauge. Check your new sender to see if one of those wires is grounded to the tank (0 ohms). If so, ground that wire to the tank and/or frame. the other wire goes to the gauge.
And on the check engine light, splice into and keyed hot wire directly to a bulb. The other bulb wire goes to the wire in the pic.
You'll need VSS to avoid stalling problems. I got a Dakota digital that fits on the mechanical speedo output. The only problem is that it puts out fewer pulses per mile so it causes difficulty trying to hook up cruise control with the DBW TB. Thinking about ordering this one;
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G2887-1/
Cheaper and easier than the JTR unit.
Keep the pcv, all you need is the valve on the back of the valve cover to the intake.
The other pic is the purge solenoid for the canister, you can loose it.
The fuel level operates by varied resistance. Your old setup was between the tank (ground) and the one wire hookup to the gauge. Check your new sender to see if one of those wires is grounded to the tank (0 ohms). If so, ground that wire to the tank and/or frame. the other wire goes to the gauge.
And on the check engine light, splice into and keyed hot wire directly to a bulb. The other bulb wire goes to the wire in the pic.
11-14-2010, 08:15 AM
#35
Thanks for the info. If I used that dakota piece how would I use my mechanical speedometer, would I just plug it into the other side? I will not be using cruise control and I have a db cable throttle body.
Just for the sake of clarity, I leave the pcv thing where it is, use the port on the side and ignore the sensor part? Or do I misunderstand?
Just for the sake of clarity, I leave the pcv thing where it is, use the port on the side and ignore the sensor part? Or do I misunderstand?
11-14-2010, 08:33 AM
#37
The DD and summit VSS are pass thru. They screw into the trans output, the speedo cable screws into the VSS.
Do a seach on pcv here, there are a few options on how to hook up.
The pic in yourv last post is the canister purge solenoid. Remove it, block off the port into the manifold.
Do a seach on pcv here, there are a few options on how to hook up.
The pic in yourv last post is the canister purge solenoid. Remove it, block off the port into the manifold.
11-14-2010, 08:44 AM
#39
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QTP makes an engine lift plate, its 50 bucks but its stainless. bolts on in place of the valley cover and you can move it forward/back a set of boltholes or center it
11-14-2010, 08:49 AM
#40
I had mine without VSS for a couple months. I had an occasional stalling issue when I was running at about 50-60mph in 6th gear depressed the clutch and coasted to a stop. I actually got pretty good at reproducing the issue.
This is apparently pretty common in cars without VSS.
I added the DD VSS, no problems since.
Your T56 should already have a VSS. Just have the computer reprogrammed to compensate for the 40 vs 17 pulse per revolution of the T56.
[QUOTE=52 Rat;14117992]
This is apparently pretty common in cars without VSS.
I added the DD VSS, no problems since.
Your T56 should already have a VSS. Just have the computer reprogrammed to compensate for the 40 vs 17 pulse per revolution of the T56.
[QUOTE=52 Rat;14117992]