zapp109

iTrader: (13)

Curious if yas think I have a starter going bad or bad i should say. Ever since my starter was new ive had to turn my key off and on like 2 times to get it to start cranking. But it would always crank nice and strong once i got it to crank. So anyway 700 miles later it wont crank when hot. I was out getting food, turned the car off and 5 mins later it was struggling to do anything. My gauges would move a little also like it was pulling some serious amps. Waited 5 more mins with hood open and it cranked. Got home tried again and same thing. I checked under the car its trying to turn motor but only turns flywheel about 2 inches. What yas think bad starter? I have alot of grounds and -2 wire going to starter. Only questionable wire may be my trigger wire? But it works and sends 12v to it.

408 Turbo Stroker w/4l80e in 93 Fox

superdave84

possible starter issue I guess. Could also be a bad coolant sensor or a major issue with overheating (probably not if you trust your gauges).

The sensor is plugged into the front driver's side head near the exhaust bolts. If this sensor is telling the engine it is too hot, then the engine will not start until it reads cool.

zapp109

iTrader: (13)

If that was the issue wouldnt it let the car crank? Or would it do what im describing?

superdave84

I don't think it would crank, I think the gauges would come alive like you said, but the ECM would tell the starter not to engage. I had this issue once myself but I can't remember for certain if it turned over or not.

ls1nova71

iTrader: (4)

The PCM wont keep it from starting like you are describing. Sounds like a ground issue to me. Where is your battery? Do you have the same size cable for a negative as you do for a positive? And if so, is it grounded to the block and not the frame or body?

bczee

iTrader: (12)

Could be a bad or loose connection if the starter itself is not bad. Check the purple wire for any melted spots and seehow much resistance with a DVM.
I thought I had a bad solenoid as it would sometimes not crank like what your seeing. I when to take the starter out and found the purple wire was not fully tight (mostly I did tjghten it secure and then loosen up more over time.

You can get O'Reilly or Autozone to check the starter and solenoid.

BC

zapp109

iTrader: (13)

I have grounds running everywhere. Battery is in the trunk 2 gauge to frame, two 4 gauge going to body. Off battery, then I have two 4 gauges going from frame to block. Then just for hell of it I took another 4 gauge and put it on one of the bolts to starter to the block. Did that like 1 month ago thinking it may be a ground issue. But didn't change a thing.

LSChevelle

I had a similar issue with my original starter. Would basically start perfectly fine ~80% of the time. The other 20% it would just click. Seemed to be fairly random. I chased grounds and starter relays for a couple weeks before I decided to just throw a new starter on. It's been working great ever since.

zapp109

iTrader: (13)

Just realized you said ground to block well I know my main 2 gauge is on the frame should I try running another to the block from battery? Just odd think if that was the issue it would always not start.

ls1nova71

iTrader: (4)

Generally the ground battery cable should be grounded to the block, that's the way the factory does it for a reason. Putting the battery in the trunk makes it even more important. I always run both cables from the battery to the engine, the bigger the better, and have never had a problem. The frame of the car, although it is metal and will conduct electricity, it's not as good of a conductor as a copper battery cable. If that doesn't fix it, I would try another starter, it could be going bad and the heat is affecting it.

bczee

iTrader: (12)

I would still suspect the starter solenoid. But I have not found a number in any online catalog for a replacement, they now Usually comes with the starter.
0
If the was a SBC/BBC, I would just change the solenoid. As this symptom would suggest that it is the solenoid.

zapp109

iTrader: (13)

I dont think its solenoid because it actually kicks the starter gear onto flywheel and starts to turn but doesnt have enough power to turn it. Just for my peace of mind Im going to pick up some more ground wire run it to the block today then see what happens. But since its only doing it when hot Im thinking starter but who knows i might luck out and only need some ground wire ...

Pop N Wood

iTrader: (1)

A bad solenoid will do exactly that. It doesn't take much juice to get it to engage but it does take a lot of juice to crank over. If you take the solenoid apart there is a copper disk that shorts the battery lug to the wire going into the starter. I use to fix all my buddies cars by taking the solenoid apart and cleaning the disk. Sometimes all you needed to do was loosen the battery lug and turn it around 180 degrees.

What you are describing with the heat soak is a classic case of needing a remote start solenoid.

Try three things. First clean all your battery connections, even if they look clean. Amazing how many times I have seen that be the problem.

Second, when it is hot run a wire straight from the battery to the S terminal on the solenoid. That will bypass all the resistance in the start circuit and put full voltage to the solenoid. You can also use a screwdriver to short the battery lug to the S terminal. If that doesn't work, short a screwdriver across the two big lugs on the solenoid. That bypasses everything and puts full voltage to the starter motor.

Or you can continue to spider web ground cables all through your car, LOL>

zapp109

iTrader: (13)

Thanks for the info. Super helpful there. So quick update 2 gauge wire ran to block, drove around for 15 mins and it's acting like it normally acts. Not struggling to start at all. I do think my starter has a solenoid issue for sure since I do have to click it once or twice to engage the starter. So I may be taking the info and checking that out.

130fe

iTrader: (14)

I had a similar issue one time (intermittent) on mine. Sometimes when I turned the key on to start, nothing except for dash instruments. Thinking it was a solenoid going out, I would have to jumper the starter solenoid momentarily with a screwdriver (embarrassing at a car show/cruise...) It wouldn't do it all of the time just whenever I didn't want it to LOL. After replacing the starter, ignition switch, solenoid wiring it turn out to be a red top optima battery going out. Hope you find your problem!

txwrench3r

sounds like a bad connection at the battery or the starter. Clean your main connections, power and ground with a wire brush and coat with a dielectric grease to prevent further issues. You need to load test the battery for cranking amps if it turns out ok then its probably the starter given all of your connections and battery check out