LS1 S14 240sx Swap
03-09-2006, 09:18 PM
#22
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A quick update for you guys:
I haven't been able to make much progress on the car...I was waiting around for parts to arrive. The bad news is, the LS2 headers will NOT fit. So, between the C5 and LS2 headers that I test fit and all the other OEM LS series headers that Hinson tried none of them will fit. I'm going to buy a set of block hugger headers from Jeg's and modify them to fit. I'll post pictures of the header progress.
EDIT: 43" came out a little shorter than I would like...it still works but the correct length to use would be 44.25"
I measured the driveshaft length and had a local shop make one for me. Pretty easy to do, just measure the distance from the center of the U-joint on the yoke to the mounting surface on the differential, it came out to 43". Take that measurement along with the 240 driveshaft, so they can get a flange that matches, to any competent driveshaft shop and they should easily be able to make one for you.
I started on the wiring as well, which, thanks to the FAQ at the top of this forum, made things pretty straight forward.
This weekend I'll install the new oil pan gasket, fuel system (all necessary GM quick disconnect lines can be found at your local NAPA parts store), weld up the subframe and start work on the headers. Hopefully she'll be up and running in the next couple of weeks.
I haven't been able to make much progress on the car...I was waiting around for parts to arrive. The bad news is, the LS2 headers will NOT fit. So, between the C5 and LS2 headers that I test fit and all the other OEM LS series headers that Hinson tried none of them will fit. I'm going to buy a set of block hugger headers from Jeg's and modify them to fit. I'll post pictures of the header progress.
EDIT: 43" came out a little shorter than I would like...it still works but the correct length to use would be 44.25"
I measured the driveshaft length and had a local shop make one for me. Pretty easy to do, just measure the distance from the center of the U-joint on the yoke to the mounting surface on the differential, it came out to 43". Take that measurement along with the 240 driveshaft, so they can get a flange that matches, to any competent driveshaft shop and they should easily be able to make one for you.
I started on the wiring as well, which, thanks to the FAQ at the top of this forum, made things pretty straight forward.
This weekend I'll install the new oil pan gasket, fuel system (all necessary GM quick disconnect lines can be found at your local NAPA parts store), weld up the subframe and start work on the headers. Hopefully she'll be up and running in the next couple of weeks.
Last edited by kenm240; 03-14-2006 at 07:11 PM.
03-09-2006, 10:34 PM
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awesome stuff, I registered on freshalloy just to keep tabs on your project but now that youre here in the LS1 world, I'll chime in here!
NICE WORK and great pics!
I wondered how easy the mods and mounts would be for anyone who can weld and it looks pretty simple, thats good news! maybe my S13 will get an LS1 this year!
thanks for the pics and drawings and updates, I'm on the edge of my seat on this thread, keep up the good work and I hope you find headers to work without much work.
-Owen
NICE WORK and great pics!
I wondered how easy the mods and mounts would be for anyone who can weld and it looks pretty simple, thats good news! maybe my S13 will get an LS1 this year!
thanks for the pics and drawings and updates, I'm on the edge of my seat on this thread, keep up the good work and I hope you find headers to work without much work.
-Owen
03-10-2006, 01:50 AM
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looks like this car is turning out pretty well. and its nice to see that the swap can be done for a little less. looks like the answer for me might be to go with custom mounts and use the hinson headers. b/c the hinson price on the mounts is so high.
03-10-2006, 08:54 PM
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Hey Ken,
I got my engine into the S13. I modded the x-member like you said but it sits way too high in the S13 so I had to notch te lower part also. Then I looked the the header clearance.... oh no. Then I remebered I had a RB25DET skyline x member in the basement. I remembered that using the skyline mounts and x member in a 240 brings the motor too forward and too high. Popped it in and boom, header clearance with C5 Vette headers. The aim is off a little bit but I cut the headers close to the middle and all I will need to do is just re aim it with some SS 3" u bends. I forgot to mention they are JBA headers. Then I got S&P style plates with SBC mounts and it lines up Perrrfect. Pics when I get home good luck.
-Alex
I got my engine into the S13. I modded the x-member like you said but it sits way too high in the S13 so I had to notch te lower part also. Then I looked the the header clearance.... oh no. Then I remebered I had a RB25DET skyline x member in the basement. I remembered that using the skyline mounts and x member in a 240 brings the motor too forward and too high. Popped it in and boom, header clearance with C5 Vette headers. The aim is off a little bit but I cut the headers close to the middle and all I will need to do is just re aim it with some SS 3" u bends. I forgot to mention they are JBA headers. Then I got S&P style plates with SBC mounts and it lines up Perrrfect. Pics when I get home good luck.
-Alex
03-11-2006, 07:54 AM
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Alex,
Very interesting info on the Skyline crossmember. So did it push the engine too far forward or does it still fit just fine? I ended up cutting the lower portion of the crossmember as well (the tab at the bottom I guess you could call it) to get the engine to sit lower in the chassis. I purchased a set of block hugger headers and they will require modification to fit but I don't think it will be too bad. I'd be very interested in seeing pictures of the engine with the skyline crossmember.
Very interesting info on the Skyline crossmember. So did it push the engine too far forward or does it still fit just fine? I ended up cutting the lower portion of the crossmember as well (the tab at the bottom I guess you could call it) to get the engine to sit lower in the chassis. I purchased a set of block hugger headers and they will require modification to fit but I don't think it will be too bad. I'd be very interested in seeing pictures of the engine with the skyline crossmember.
03-12-2006, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Slo_240sx
Hey Ken,
I RB25DET skyline x member Popped it in
-Alex
I RB25DET skyline x member Popped it in
-Alex
03-12-2006, 03:00 PM
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im in the early stages of a LS1 into a 240Z and one of the things i was told would work was if i got mustang headers and cut the flanges off and welded LS1 flanges on it that they fit beautifuly
03-13-2006, 12:35 PM
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interesting stuff you guys, nice thread on the budget conscious side of things.
come one where are the PICS!
pics speak a thousand words!
I can even host them if you want me to!
pics pics pics!
come one where are the PICS!
pics speak a thousand words!
I can even host them if you want me to!
pics pics pics!
03-14-2006, 07:49 PM
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As everyone requested here are pics and an explanation:
As you can simply see the S13/14 crossmember just has the mounting points right in the way. No way for headers but custom ones and hinsons are just too expensive. These are C5 headers cut right below the 02 bung hole so I can slightly re-aim it back more.
Now here is the skyline crossmember from an R33 RB25DET. I had it left over from my old red S13 that I sold. The mounting points sit so much farther forward and doesn't have the pod that will just get in the way at the center of the engine. After I test fitted the headers I knew they would work, all I have to do is go buy some 3" SS u bends and have it welded it on, cut it to fit, then weld the flange back on where ever I want the headers to aim.
Reffering back to the swap faq at the top of the section you can use S&P style mounts and bolt them anywhere to the engine, rear, middle, or forward.
Here are the S&P mount plates with SBC mounts, and the Skyline X member.
Now my plan is to make a base plate that will bolt to the x-member, then run rectangle metal tube to a sleeve that will fit inside the mounts. I almost pooped my pants once I realized the mounts came nearly to being perfect on alignment. This way the rectangle tube will have no lateral angle, decreasing strength.
Oh I also finished painting my cage
Good luck with the swap Ken, you'll find it much easier if you did the mounting as I did. I know you have alot of R&D time into what you have now but you'll be better off with clearance issues. Good luck!
I plan on having the car running in about a month so wish me luck!
-Alex
As you can simply see the S13/14 crossmember just has the mounting points right in the way. No way for headers but custom ones and hinsons are just too expensive. These are C5 headers cut right below the 02 bung hole so I can slightly re-aim it back more.
Now here is the skyline crossmember from an R33 RB25DET. I had it left over from my old red S13 that I sold. The mounting points sit so much farther forward and doesn't have the pod that will just get in the way at the center of the engine. After I test fitted the headers I knew they would work, all I have to do is go buy some 3" SS u bends and have it welded it on, cut it to fit, then weld the flange back on where ever I want the headers to aim.
Reffering back to the swap faq at the top of the section you can use S&P style mounts and bolt them anywhere to the engine, rear, middle, or forward.
Here are the S&P mount plates with SBC mounts, and the Skyline X member.
Now my plan is to make a base plate that will bolt to the x-member, then run rectangle metal tube to a sleeve that will fit inside the mounts. I almost pooped my pants once I realized the mounts came nearly to being perfect on alignment. This way the rectangle tube will have no lateral angle, decreasing strength.
Oh I also finished painting my cage
Good luck with the swap Ken, you'll find it much easier if you did the mounting as I did. I know you have alot of R&D time into what you have now but you'll be better off with clearance issues. Good luck!
I plan on having the car running in about a month so wish me luck!
-Alex
03-15-2006, 04:47 PM
#32
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Alex,
Looks great! Thanks for sharing the pictures. It looks like using the Skyline crossmember places the engine in the exact same spot as using the KA crossmember but without the nightmare of making custom headers. I've already bolted up the engine, made a transmission mount and am halfway done making custom longtube headers (which is a very time consuming task) for my car so it's too late to turn back but for other people considering the swap this would be an excellent option. Those corvette headers have to be at least half the price of Hinson's headers. Hopefully options such as ours will persuade Hinson to lower their pricing on their mounting kit after people see what fairly easy and cheap alternatives are out there for people with at least semi-decent fabrication skills.
I have a few questions about using the Skyline crossmember:
Does the steering rack bolt up with no changes to steering geometry?
When people do the RB swap do they keep the Skyline crossmember or purchase a modified crossmember? (I believe McKinney Motorsports makes one?) If they purchase a modified crossmember, with the growing popularity of the RB swap, I'd imagine one could pick one up for pretty cheap.
Hopefully the car will be up and running in the next couple of weeks after I finish the headers. On a side note, does anyone know who sells the T-56 quick disconnect fitting so I can make my own clutch line?
Looks great! Thanks for sharing the pictures. It looks like using the Skyline crossmember places the engine in the exact same spot as using the KA crossmember but without the nightmare of making custom headers. I've already bolted up the engine, made a transmission mount and am halfway done making custom longtube headers (which is a very time consuming task) for my car so it's too late to turn back but for other people considering the swap this would be an excellent option. Those corvette headers have to be at least half the price of Hinson's headers. Hopefully options such as ours will persuade Hinson to lower their pricing on their mounting kit after people see what fairly easy and cheap alternatives are out there for people with at least semi-decent fabrication skills.
I have a few questions about using the Skyline crossmember:
Does the steering rack bolt up with no changes to steering geometry?
When people do the RB swap do they keep the Skyline crossmember or purchase a modified crossmember? (I believe McKinney Motorsports makes one?) If they purchase a modified crossmember, with the growing popularity of the RB swap, I'd imagine one could pick one up for pretty cheap.
Hopefully the car will be up and running in the next couple of weeks after I finish the headers. On a side note, does anyone know who sells the T-56 quick disconnect fitting so I can make my own clutch line?
03-15-2006, 05:09 PM
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I don't think hinson will lower their prices at all. I paid 180 shipped for the headers off ebay lol. As a matter of fact I don't even have 6k invested into the whole car including everything you see in the pics. The rack lines up perfect and in the stock location. It bolts directly up on the 4 bolts going to the frame but when I welded it in I accidently forgot it would warp it. I put it back up there and noticed it was 1/2" off, I then had to straighten it out by sticking it under a solid platform and jacking up the middle with a jack.
Mckinney does not sell a crossmember, in fact, their mounts do not utilize the skyline x member but rather bolt up to the stock locations. I am lucky I did not sell mine but if I would have, I probably would have sold it for about 100 dollars. No one has a use for them until now!
I plan to have mine running in about a month. As for the quick disconnect fitting, I had already posted a thread about it. NO ONE makes a quick disconnect it must have a GM patent on it still. The only way of doing this is finding a used line or cutting the quick disconnect off and brazing a -4AN fitting onto it. Though this is not ideal, it works very effectively. I believe the thread is still on the first page if not the second. Good luck! -Alex AIM: DaDvSAzN
Mckinney does not sell a crossmember, in fact, their mounts do not utilize the skyline x member but rather bolt up to the stock locations. I am lucky I did not sell mine but if I would have, I probably would have sold it for about 100 dollars. No one has a use for them until now!
I plan to have mine running in about a month. As for the quick disconnect fitting, I had already posted a thread about it. NO ONE makes a quick disconnect it must have a GM patent on it still. The only way of doing this is finding a used line or cutting the quick disconnect off and brazing a -4AN fitting onto it. Though this is not ideal, it works very effectively. I believe the thread is still on the first page if not the second. Good luck! -Alex AIM: DaDvSAzN
03-16-2006, 05:28 PM
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Note on the Quick Disconnect fitting on the GM slave cylinder/Clutchline:
us LS1RX7 guys have been using the stock LS1T56 clutchline, but cutting off the end near the Master Cylinder. Since we use an aftermarket MC (US-Brake 7/8" bore) we add about 8" to the cluitchline and the proper fitting on the end... taaadaaa perfect clutchline for the swap and its cheap... used clutchlines are $30 or less and the mods can be done by most any hydraulic shop for $20. just be sure you buy an LS1 clutchline and not an LT1.
Some guys have removed the short little hardline stuck in the Slave Cylinder by removing the tiny pin, and this lets you use a fitting that has a threaded end to completely take the GM Quick Disconnect out of the system... you can just run SS line with whatever fittings you want to.
I dont know if the 240sx setup requires the line to be lengthened or not and if so by how much and what fitting, beats me. but make sure you have the proper bore and stroke on whatever MC you use, I doubt the stock Nissan unit is enough.
AWESOME THREAD!
nice work guys!
us LS1RX7 guys have been using the stock LS1T56 clutchline, but cutting off the end near the Master Cylinder. Since we use an aftermarket MC (US-Brake 7/8" bore) we add about 8" to the cluitchline and the proper fitting on the end... taaadaaa perfect clutchline for the swap and its cheap... used clutchlines are $30 or less and the mods can be done by most any hydraulic shop for $20. just be sure you buy an LS1 clutchline and not an LT1.
Some guys have removed the short little hardline stuck in the Slave Cylinder by removing the tiny pin, and this lets you use a fitting that has a threaded end to completely take the GM Quick Disconnect out of the system... you can just run SS line with whatever fittings you want to.
I dont know if the 240sx setup requires the line to be lengthened or not and if so by how much and what fitting, beats me. but make sure you have the proper bore and stroke on whatever MC you use, I doubt the stock Nissan unit is enough.
AWESOME THREAD!
nice work guys!
03-16-2006, 06:58 PM
#35
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Owen V8,
Thanks for the info! That sounds like the direction I'll go in, hopefully I can buy the clutch line at an auto parts store since I want this thing up and running real soon.
Thanks for the info! That sounds like the direction I'll go in, hopefully I can buy the clutch line at an auto parts store since I want this thing up and running real soon.
03-16-2006, 09:10 PM
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I thought of that too but I can't find ANYONE who has one for sale. I've been searching for one on here for the longest time. There was a thread that said some company was making aftermarket ones but they have been dragging their feet and it was going to cost somewhat around 150-200 for a stinking line! Must be Hinson If I find extras then I'll give you guys a ring...
If I find extras then I'll give you guys a ring...
03-19-2006, 12:21 PM
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This thread on another board may help with the clutch line issue.
http://www.torquecentral.com/showthread.php?t=22437
http://www.torquecentral.com/showthread.php?t=22437
03-20-2006, 04:12 PM
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Thats the wrong fitting we need. Thats the type thats held in by a roll pin. You have to remove the trans and take the slave out to get that fitting out. the fitting we need is the quick disconnect type, and ONLY GM makes it. Some company is workin on it though but they are dragging ***. Our only hope is to use the stock line and cut the end to fit. Thanks though! -Alex
03-20-2006, 04:19 PM
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man everyone is having trouble with that clutch line fitting. get that thing running and take it to the track. ill have some times up on my ls1 s13 + magnacharger + m/t's hopefully mid-late april if i dont stuff it into the wall too hard on streets of long beach.
