1026/821 377 ls3 ysi
08-10-2013, 10:38 AM
#1
1026/821 377 ls3 ysi Customer of mine came to me back in October of last year wanting more power from his 5th Gen Camaro. The car at the time was making 825/637 on 14-15psi with his current camshaft, no methanol injection and a ported Fast 102 intake. These are the items that we changed, thus noted in the first part of this post.
Old camshaft was 235/247 .621"/.624" 115lsa
He wanted to change the Fast 102 to a stock LS3 intake, add methanol injection, change pulleys to achieve 21-22psi of boost and a new camshaft to compliment it all.
Before:
I worked with this customer for nearly 5 months making sure everything was going to perform the way he wanted it to. He was hoping for 950rwhp with all the said changes.
Combination is as follows:
-Stock LS3 Aluminum block
-Stock crankshaft
-Wiseco -11cc dished 4.070" pistons
-6.125" rods
-PRC Small Bore 260cc runner volume LS3 cylinder heads. 13* valve angle, 2.185 hollow stem intake valve, 1.59 stainless exhaust valve, 65cc chambers for 10.0:1 compression.
-LS3 ported intake manifold and 92mm throttle body
-2"x3" Kooks headers
-3" x-pipe
-Stock cat-back exhaust
-Tick Performance Custom 235/260 .610"/.578" 115lsa camshaft
-Cogged Vortech YSI V7 trim blower with 27T blower/75T crank
-TR6060
-9" rear end with 3.50 gears
-Dual methanol nozzle injection
-Pump gas 93 octane BP gasoline and 15* ignition timing
Plan was to have the cam peak at 7000rpm and blower speed peak at 7000-7200rpm for a 7200-7400rpm shift point.
I don't have a dyno graph for the latest pulls, but I do have a video showing the power it made.
Old camshaft was 235/247 .621"/.624" 115lsa
He wanted to change the Fast 102 to a stock LS3 intake, add methanol injection, change pulleys to achieve 21-22psi of boost and a new camshaft to compliment it all.
Before:
I worked with this customer for nearly 5 months making sure everything was going to perform the way he wanted it to. He was hoping for 950rwhp with all the said changes.
Combination is as follows:
-Stock LS3 Aluminum block
-Stock crankshaft
-Wiseco -11cc dished 4.070" pistons
-6.125" rods
-PRC Small Bore 260cc runner volume LS3 cylinder heads. 13* valve angle, 2.185 hollow stem intake valve, 1.59 stainless exhaust valve, 65cc chambers for 10.0:1 compression.
-LS3 ported intake manifold and 92mm throttle body
-2"x3" Kooks headers
-3" x-pipe
-Stock cat-back exhaust
-Tick Performance Custom 235/260 .610"/.578" 115lsa camshaft
-Cogged Vortech YSI V7 trim blower with 27T blower/75T crank
-TR6060
-9" rear end with 3.50 gears
-Dual methanol nozzle injection
-Pump gas 93 octane BP gasoline and 15* ignition timing
Plan was to have the cam peak at 7000rpm and blower speed peak at 7000-7200rpm for a 7200-7400rpm shift point.
I don't have a dyno graph for the latest pulls, but I do have a video showing the power it made.
Last edited by Sales@Tick; 08-10-2013 at 03:46 PM.
08-10-2013, 11:19 AM
#4
Thanks guys! It is extremely impressive IMO! I'm doing another cam for customer right now with a YSi as well. His is a solid roller camshaft though. Hoping for similar improvement, but his won't be near as large since we're only changing the camshaft and intake manifold.
I attribute 125-150hp of these gains to the increase in blower speed, but the new cam is definitely working like I wanted it too. I felt with his OEM style intake that the old cam with only 2 degrees of ICL advance was causing the power curve to be too peaky for such a heavy(4200lb empty) vehicle. I added 4 more degrees of ICL advance to the new camshaft and left the intake duration alone in an attempt to bring the peak power RPM down.
As you can see the old "smaller" cam's torque figure peaked at nearly 6500rpm and horsepower hadn't even rolled over yet with a 7200rpm limiter. New "larger" cam peaks at 5600rpm for torque and 6500rpm for horsepower. With the increase in blower speed at lower engine speeds and the lower torque peak, the torque increase down low is going to be insane and should make for a much more explosive set-up with the 6 speed and 4400lbs race weight. The increase of 220rwtq is plain awesome with a centrifugal set-up and a stock stroke crankshaft AND 260cc cylinder heads!
Thus was the whole goal around this project. Increase under the curve, increase peak, bring peak power down to a lower rpm while still increasing blower speed and make for a much more explosive driving combination.
I think we nailed it.
Corey, I honestly don't know! I'll have to ask him.
I attribute 125-150hp of these gains to the increase in blower speed, but the new cam is definitely working like I wanted it too. I felt with his OEM style intake that the old cam with only 2 degrees of ICL advance was causing the power curve to be too peaky for such a heavy(4200lb empty) vehicle. I added 4 more degrees of ICL advance to the new camshaft and left the intake duration alone in an attempt to bring the peak power RPM down.
As you can see the old "smaller" cam's torque figure peaked at nearly 6500rpm and horsepower hadn't even rolled over yet with a 7200rpm limiter. New "larger" cam peaks at 5600rpm for torque and 6500rpm for horsepower. With the increase in blower speed at lower engine speeds and the lower torque peak, the torque increase down low is going to be insane and should make for a much more explosive set-up with the 6 speed and 4400lbs race weight. The increase of 220rwtq is plain awesome with a centrifugal set-up and a stock stroke crankshaft AND 260cc cylinder heads!
Thus was the whole goal around this project. Increase under the curve, increase peak, bring peak power down to a lower rpm while still increasing blower speed and make for a much more explosive driving combination.
I think we nailed it.
Corey, I honestly don't know! I'll have to ask him.
Last edited by Sales@Tick; 08-10-2013 at 05:26 PM.
08-10-2013, 01:41 PM
#6
That's a good question! I think a solid 875rwhp could of been achieved, possibly 900rwhp.
These centrifugal blowers absolutely eat up exhaust duration due to how far into the rpm range that torque peaks. Since air mass is at it's highest volume at peak torque, the higher peak torque occurs the more time in crank degrees you need to evacuate the cylinder.
This means an earlier opening exhaust valve event which can only be achieved by adding exhaust duration and/or widening the exhaust centerline. Both of which I did with the new camshaft.
These centrifugal blowers absolutely eat up exhaust duration due to how far into the rpm range that torque peaks. Since air mass is at it's highest volume at peak torque, the higher peak torque occurs the more time in crank degrees you need to evacuate the cylinder.
This means an earlier opening exhaust valve event which can only be achieved by adding exhaust duration and/or widening the exhaust centerline. Both of which I did with the new camshaft.
08-10-2013, 02:34 PM
#7
I recognize that car...
Martin hit this one out of the park to a standing ovation.
It has a Squash dual 400lph setup for fuel. Stock feed line to -8 then splits to -6 just before the rail. -6 return line with a magnafuel regulator.
Currently has an LS9 clutch in it. I never really beat on the car often but I am surprised it was holding at this level. It is getting swapped out for for a modified RXT capable of 1500hp.
93 octane with meth. 15* of timing. It isn't tuned for meth either, just as a safety/cooling feature. Tuned by Dave Steck (DSX Tuning). Although the cam was speced for the L92 heads, it actually had PRC LS3 260 heads on it at the time of the dyno run. 2.185 hollow int, 16 stainless exhaust, 65cc chambers. I'm sneaky like that.
Martin, I am working on the dyno graph for you!
Martin hit this one out of the park to a standing ovation.
It has a Squash dual 400lph setup for fuel. Stock feed line to -8 then splits to -6 just before the rail. -6 return line with a magnafuel regulator.
Currently has an LS9 clutch in it. I never really beat on the car often but I am surprised it was holding at this level. It is getting swapped out for for a modified RXT capable of 1500hp.
93 octane with meth. 15* of timing. It isn't tuned for meth either, just as a safety/cooling feature. Tuned by Dave Steck (DSX Tuning). Although the cam was speced for the L92 heads, it actually had PRC LS3 260 heads on it at the time of the dyno run. 2.185 hollow int, 16 stainless exhaust, 65cc chambers. I'm sneaky like that.
Martin, I am working on the dyno graph for you!
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08-10-2013, 03:48 PM
#10
I recognize that car...
Martin hit this one out of the park to a standing ovation.
It has a Squash dual 400lph setup for fuel. Stock feed line to -8 then splits to -6 just before the rail. -6 return line with a magnafuel regulator.
Currently has an LS9 clutch in it. I never really beat on the car often but I am surprised it was holding at this level. It is getting swapped out for for a modified RXT capable of 1500hp.
93 octane with meth. 15* of timing. It isn't tuned for meth either, just as a safety/cooling feature. Tuned by Dave Steck (DSX Tuning). Although the cam was speced for the L92 heads, it actually had PRC LS3 260 heads on it at the time of the dyno run. 2.185 hollow int, 16 stainless exhaust, 65cc chambers. I'm sneaky like that.
Martin, I am working on the dyno graph for you!
Martin hit this one out of the park to a standing ovation.
It has a Squash dual 400lph setup for fuel. Stock feed line to -8 then splits to -6 just before the rail. -6 return line with a magnafuel regulator.
Currently has an LS9 clutch in it. I never really beat on the car often but I am surprised it was holding at this level. It is getting swapped out for for a modified RXT capable of 1500hp.
93 octane with meth. 15* of timing. It isn't tuned for meth either, just as a safety/cooling feature. Tuned by Dave Steck (DSX Tuning). Although the cam was speced for the L92 heads, it actually had PRC LS3 260 heads on it at the time of the dyno run. 2.185 hollow int, 16 stainless exhaust, 65cc chambers. I'm sneaky like that.
Martin, I am working on the dyno graph for you!
I think a lot of people sleep on the PRC aftermarket castings. I don't really like their stock castings, but I like their aftermarket stuff.
08-11-2013, 11:38 AM
#13
I recognize that car...
Martin hit this one out of the park to a standing ovation.
It has a Squash dual 400lph setup for fuel. Stock feed line to -8 then splits to -6 just before the rail. -6 return line with a magnafuel regulator.
Currently has an LS9 clutch in it. I never really beat on the car often but I am surprised it was holding at this level. It is getting swapped out for for a modified RXT capable of 1500hp.
93 octane with meth. 15* of timing. It isn't tuned for meth either, just as a safety/cooling feature. Tuned by Dave Steck (DSX Tuning). Although the cam was speced for the L92 heads, it actually had PRC LS3 260 heads on it at the time of the dyno run. 2.185 hollow int, 16 stainless exhaust, 65cc chambers. I'm sneaky like that.
Martin, I am working on the dyno graph for you!
Martin hit this one out of the park to a standing ovation.
It has a Squash dual 400lph setup for fuel. Stock feed line to -8 then splits to -6 just before the rail. -6 return line with a magnafuel regulator.
Currently has an LS9 clutch in it. I never really beat on the car often but I am surprised it was holding at this level. It is getting swapped out for for a modified RXT capable of 1500hp.
93 octane with meth. 15* of timing. It isn't tuned for meth either, just as a safety/cooling feature. Tuned by Dave Steck (DSX Tuning). Although the cam was speced for the L92 heads, it actually had PRC LS3 260 heads on it at the time of the dyno run. 2.185 hollow int, 16 stainless exhaust, 65cc chambers. I'm sneaky like that.
Martin, I am working on the dyno graph for you!
Since both have equal runner length and similar plenum volume I don't see one making much over the other at high rpm.
I'd have to compare the compressor maps as I am not sure. Your turbo will probably be done around 850-900rwhp through a 6 speed.
08-11-2013, 03:19 PM
#16
I am also thinking it was the meth that caused the hiccup. I never changed any of the setting on the main controller and had the adjustment **** set at 5-6.
I changed the FAST 102/NW 102 combo because I didn't think it was necessary. I saved some money by selling them and buying a ported LS3 intake and ported LS2 tb (Got them both used and really saved!) . Since I knew the engine was not going to be living in the upper rpms very often, I didn't see the 102 stuff as being necessary. The stock ls3 intake and stock ls2 tb have been taken beyond 1k so I had nothing to worry about.
Martin, the dyno graph overlay won't be a true apples to apples comparison as the original run was done on a dynojet and the 1k run was done on a dynapack.
I saw in the other thread juicedta said he would try to get it up as he works at the shop where the car is. I'm working on it from my end too.
I changed the FAST 102/NW 102 combo because I didn't think it was necessary. I saved some money by selling them and buying a ported LS3 intake and ported LS2 tb (Got them both used and really saved!) . Since I knew the engine was not going to be living in the upper rpms very often, I didn't see the 102 stuff as being necessary. The stock ls3 intake and stock ls2 tb have been taken beyond 1k so I had nothing to worry about.
Martin, the dyno graph overlay won't be a true apples to apples comparison as the original run was done on a dynojet and the 1k run was done on a dynapack.
I saw in the other thread juicedta said he would try to get it up as he works at the shop where the car is. I'm working on it from my end too.
08-11-2013, 08:04 PM
#18
I recognize that car...
Martin hit this one out of the park to a standing ovation.
It has a Squash dual 400lph setup for fuel. Stock feed line to -8 then splits to -6 just before the rail. -6 return line with a magnafuel regulator.
Currently has an LS9 clutch in it. I never really beat on the car often but I am surprised it was holding at this level. It is getting swapped out for for a modified RXT capable of 1500hp.
93 octane with meth. 15* of timing. It isn't tuned for meth either, just as a safety/cooling feature. Tuned by Dave Steck (DSX Tuning). Although the cam was speced for the L92 heads, it actually had PRC LS3 260 heads on it at the time of the dyno run. 2.185 hollow int, 16 stainless exhaust, 65cc chambers. I'm sneaky like that.
Martin, I am working on the dyno graph for you!
Martin hit this one out of the park to a standing ovation.
It has a Squash dual 400lph setup for fuel. Stock feed line to -8 then splits to -6 just before the rail. -6 return line with a magnafuel regulator.
Currently has an LS9 clutch in it. I never really beat on the car often but I am surprised it was holding at this level. It is getting swapped out for for a modified RXT capable of 1500hp.
93 octane with meth. 15* of timing. It isn't tuned for meth either, just as a safety/cooling feature. Tuned by Dave Steck (DSX Tuning). Although the cam was speced for the L92 heads, it actually had PRC LS3 260 heads on it at the time of the dyno run. 2.185 hollow int, 16 stainless exhaust, 65cc chambers. I'm sneaky like that.
Martin, I am working on the dyno graph for you!
08-11-2013, 11:26 PM
#19
I am also thinking it was the meth that caused the hiccup. I never changed any of the setting on the main controller and had the adjustment **** set at 5-6.
I changed the FAST 102/NW 102 combo because I didn't think it was necessary. I saved some money by selling them and buying a ported LS3 intake and ported LS2 tb (Got them both used and really saved!) . Since I knew the engine was not going to be living in the upper rpms very often, I didn't see the 102 stuff as being necessary. The stock ls3 intake and stock ls2 tb have been taken beyond 1k so I had nothing to worry about.
Martin, the dyno graph overlay won't be a true apples to apples comparison as the original run was done on a dynojet and the 1k run was done on a dynapack.
I saw in the other thread juicedta said he would try to get it up as he works at the shop where the car is. I'm working on it from my end too.
I changed the FAST 102/NW 102 combo because I didn't think it was necessary. I saved some money by selling them and buying a ported LS3 intake and ported LS2 tb (Got them both used and really saved!) . Since I knew the engine was not going to be living in the upper rpms very often, I didn't see the 102 stuff as being necessary. The stock ls3 intake and stock ls2 tb have been taken beyond 1k so I had nothing to worry about.
Martin, the dyno graph overlay won't be a true apples to apples comparison as the original run was done on a dynojet and the 1k run was done on a dynapack.
I saw in the other thread juicedta said he would try to get it up as he works at the shop where the car is. I'm working on it from my end too.
I would have to say low 9's@152-154+
08-11-2013, 11:35 PM
#20
Didn't even think about that! I wonder if it would still make 1000rwhp on a dyno jet?
I think it would be similar. The shop where the car is said they have used the dynapack and a dynojet on the same car and it was within just a few HP from both dynos.
I would have to say low 9's@152-154+
I think it would be similar. The shop where the car is said they have used the dynapack and a dynojet on the same car and it was within just a few HP from both dynos.
I would have to say low 9's@152-154+
I used one of those online ET calculators and it came out at 9.32@15x so I suppose in a perfect world with the planets aligned, it could do it.