Trick Flow TEA 225 CNC Cathedrals or WCCH stage 2 LSA for Twin Turbo LSA GTO
03-22-2015, 03:02 PM
#1
Trick Flow TEA 225 CNC Cathedrals or WCCH stage 2 LSA for Twin Turbo LSA GTO I have been searching and reading for weeks going back and forth and I am ready for some fresh perspectives. I am at the point of assembling the parts I have accumulated over the past year for my daily driver M6 2006 GTO that sees 70 miles a day. I am running a GenTTr twin turbo kit that will be upgraded to Garrett GT3071r turbos with .86 A/R t-25 internal gated turbine housings. I realize these are going to have higher backpressure but for now that is what I will be using as they bolt up to the kit. I am trying to balance my two equally important goals of responsiveness off boost in the 2200- 3500 rpm range where 95% of my driving takes place and the ability to run 15 lbs plus on e85 when called for. While I don't have a set hp goal I would like to think 800 rwhp on e85 could be had while keeping daily driver manners.
I am going from a stock short block to a forged one so I can turn up the boost as I convert to E85 at the same time. Shortblock is an 4.070 bore LSA block with oil sqirters, a 3.625 Callies Magnum crank, Lunati Pro billet rods, Wiseco -11 pistons with upgraded pins and steel rings. ARP main and head studs will be used. The cam selection will be based on which heads I ultimately end up using and will be custom ground but will be on the mild side to keep the mild manners at idle and low speed.
I am stuck on the choice of heads between two sets I already have. The Trick flow TEA 225 70CC heads with larger 2.08 intake valves and 1.60 already installed along with a ported LS2 manifold or a set of WCCH LSA stage 2 with hollow 2.16 intakes and 1.60 inconel exhaust with 70 cc chambers also. I would run a stock LS3 intake manifold with the LSAs. I have Terra Yella rockers for the Trick Flows and stock LS3 with trunion upgades for the LSA heads.
The Trick flows have the thicker decks and over 40cc less runner volume which bodes well for velocity and keeping the heads planted if I ever decide to turn the boost even higher at some point. I do not have flow numbers with the 2.08 valves vs. the standard 2.05 intake valves that TEA provides flow data for. TEA quotes around 335 cfm for the intake @.600 vs 355 for the WCCH LSAs 270 cc intake runner but the TEAs 274 cfm @.600 exhaust flow is higher than the ported LSAs 241 cfm. The Trick flow also has a 12degree valve angle vs 15 degrees for the LSAs.
What I am trying to figure out is which combo will be the most efficient for my daily driver duties but will still give me the most HP potential when called upon. I do not plan on runing a Fast manifold with the Cathedrals and I am not sure how much better the stock LS3 intake is over the professionally ported LS2 intake that was good for both 15 Hp and 15 ft. lbs. of torque on another combo over the stock one. With my smaller turbines and higher backpressure will the lower intake flow with more velocity along with higher exhaust flow of the TF 225s be better or does the extra 20 cfm intake flow with lower exhaust numbers of the CNC LSAs work better.
While cost isn't the primary concern I do have about $800 more in the Trick flows than the LSAs when I include the aftermarket rockers needed to run these. Both heads have fresh valve jobs and are ready to bolt on. I will sell the setup I do not end up using and would have an extra $800 for other upgrades later if I go with the LSAs. I am just concerned about less low end response from the much larger ports and thinner decks of the LSAs. I already have the fuel system and driveline upgrades covered for up to 1000 hp. Any constructive advice would be appreciated.
Tony O.
I am going from a stock short block to a forged one so I can turn up the boost as I convert to E85 at the same time. Shortblock is an 4.070 bore LSA block with oil sqirters, a 3.625 Callies Magnum crank, Lunati Pro billet rods, Wiseco -11 pistons with upgraded pins and steel rings. ARP main and head studs will be used. The cam selection will be based on which heads I ultimately end up using and will be custom ground but will be on the mild side to keep the mild manners at idle and low speed.
I am stuck on the choice of heads between two sets I already have. The Trick flow TEA 225 70CC heads with larger 2.08 intake valves and 1.60 already installed along with a ported LS2 manifold or a set of WCCH LSA stage 2 with hollow 2.16 intakes and 1.60 inconel exhaust with 70 cc chambers also. I would run a stock LS3 intake manifold with the LSAs. I have Terra Yella rockers for the Trick Flows and stock LS3 with trunion upgades for the LSA heads.
The Trick flows have the thicker decks and over 40cc less runner volume which bodes well for velocity and keeping the heads planted if I ever decide to turn the boost even higher at some point. I do not have flow numbers with the 2.08 valves vs. the standard 2.05 intake valves that TEA provides flow data for. TEA quotes around 335 cfm for the intake @.600 vs 355 for the WCCH LSAs 270 cc intake runner but the TEAs 274 cfm @.600 exhaust flow is higher than the ported LSAs 241 cfm. The Trick flow also has a 12degree valve angle vs 15 degrees for the LSAs.
What I am trying to figure out is which combo will be the most efficient for my daily driver duties but will still give me the most HP potential when called upon. I do not plan on runing a Fast manifold with the Cathedrals and I am not sure how much better the stock LS3 intake is over the professionally ported LS2 intake that was good for both 15 Hp and 15 ft. lbs. of torque on another combo over the stock one. With my smaller turbines and higher backpressure will the lower intake flow with more velocity along with higher exhaust flow of the TF 225s be better or does the extra 20 cfm intake flow with lower exhaust numbers of the CNC LSAs work better.
While cost isn't the primary concern I do have about $800 more in the Trick flows than the LSAs when I include the aftermarket rockers needed to run these. Both heads have fresh valve jobs and are ready to bolt on. I will sell the setup I do not end up using and would have an extra $800 for other upgrades later if I go with the LSAs. I am just concerned about less low end response from the much larger ports and thinner decks of the LSAs. I already have the fuel system and driveline upgrades covered for up to 1000 hp. Any constructive advice would be appreciated.
Tony O.
03-22-2015, 05:36 PM
#3
Use the TrickFlow heads period. I port heads for a living. That extra air flow at .600 lift is probably the only place the square port flows better than the trick flow. Below that the TF heads are probably better. I make over 1000 whp with my ported 317 truck heads at 17 psi on a 378" motor. Your 800 whp will be a walk in the park.
03-23-2015, 04:31 PM
#4
Thank you for the replies. The Trick Flows do flow as much, actually more @.400, than the LSAs between .300-.500 lifts. The low lift .100-.200 numbers favor the bigger valve of the rectangular heads as one would expect but since my Trick flows have a 2.08 intake instead of the 2.05 one they usually come with they are probably closer than the published numbers reflect.
Any other opinions or experiences?
Tony O.
Any other opinions or experiences?
Tony O.
