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Yes, both. Also builds up on the piston faces and intake runners. Wipes right off with straight gasoline and a rag.
If you take a little time and read the study, they indicate what the acronyms mean. The cylinder heat and pressure are the big factors. I'm sure having higher ratios of fuel in the CC will help aid in CC cooling a bit. But it's not a huge ratio increase between E50 and E85.
Also the base fuel used in "E85" is questionable at best. Some say they use 87 octane as a base, some claim they use 85 or lower octane as a base. So if you were to mix your own fuel using say 5 gal "E85" and 3 gal of (ethanol free) 91 OCT you'd be at 53% ethanol and most likely have a better overall octane than "E85" at the pump.
Zbrown on this forum had issues with E85 goo as well. He now runs his 10:1 LS @ big boost on a large frame 88 turbo making upwards of 1200hp i'm sure. He runs E50 and a little water/meth inj with an A2W IC setup. He seems to have no issues with detonation running E50.
Last edited by Forcefed86; 01-10-2016 at 12:51 PM.
Yes, both. Also builds up on the piston faces and intake runners. Wipes right off with straight gasoline and a rag.
If you take a little time and read the study, they indicate what the acronyms mean. The cylinder heat and pressure are the big factors. I'm sure having higher ratios of fuel in the CC will help aid in CC cooling a bit. But it's not a huge ratio increase between E50 and E85.
Also the base fuel used in "E85" is questionable at best. Some say they use 87 octane as a base, some claim they use 85 or lower octane as a base. So if you were to mix your own fuel using say 5 gal "E85" and 3 gal of (ethanol free) 91 OCT you'd be at 53% ethanol and most likely have a better overall octane than "E85" at the pump.
Zbrown on this forum had issues with E85 goo as well. He now runs his 10:1 LS @ big boost on a large frame 88 turbo making upwards of 1200hp i'm sure. He runs E50 and a little water/meth inj with an A2W IC setup. He seems to have no issues with detonation running E50.
In regards to using E50 or so needing to blend your own, here's a nice calculator. http://www.intercepteft.com/calc.html
If you look at the MSDS for most of those fuel "treatments" they are basically Naptha in one form or another. (some more concentrated than others) You can buy lighter fluid, mineral spirits, paint thinner in higher quantities much cheaper. Basically just paying more money for a small amount of concentrated/dyed petroleum distillate. I found toluene works better than mineral spirits FWIW. I didn't' try lighter fluid or paint thinner. Toluene is also a fuel (114 octane) and slows the burn/raises octane.Mineral spirits alone as well as most additives actually degrade the octane slightly.
Thank you all for the input. We use Toluene at work so that's easy.
I have been considering setting the car up with an Ethanol sensor but I have to find out what's involved on the tune end (I am not tuning the car). I know the E38 supports it but not sure if the OS that's in it does.
I’ve had a few places refuse to sell it to me. Guess it’s also used to make Crystal Meth and TNT. I was asking to buy a drum of it so it raised some red flags. When I told them I wanted to run it in my car they thought I was crazy meth addict!
Toluene or Toluol... Sherman Williams and Ace Hardware have 1 gallon cans close to me. I usually go there. Home Depot does sometimes as well. Paint stores usually have the option to order 5 gallon jugs, cheaper that way. Buying 1 gallon is $14-16 here.
Xylene/Xylol is also popular and even higher octane than toluene. Both are aromatic hydrocarbons, derivatives of benzene and will clean the tar goo very well. Also super toxic, don't get it on your skin.
Last edited by Forcefed86; 01-11-2016 at 09:37 AM.
I never have, but it's a cool option if the ECU supports it. My 02 correction pretty much takes care of any small swings in ethanol content. Autotune does as well.
I don’t know if octane/anti-knock rating is the be all end all of rating a fuel. If stoich. for E50 is 11.57:1 and E85 is 9.61:1. That’s almost 2 more parts fuel to air for E85. Rich Peak power AFR’s are reported to be as low as 6.9:1 (10.4:1‘ish on gas scale) for E85. I’d assume with E50 you’re tuning window would be slightly smaller, though I don’t know how much smaller or what the actual rich peak power AFR would be. As long as you watch the plugs and “sneak up” on timing, I can’t see it hurting anything. Should stretch the injectors/pump quite a bit!
I don’t know if octane/anti-knock rating is the be all end all of rating a fuel. If stoich. for E50 is 11.57:1 and E85 is 9.61:1. That’s almost 2 more parts fuel to air for E85. Rich Peak power AFR’s are reported to be as low as 6.9:1 (10.4:1‘ish on gas scale) for E85. I’d assume with E50 you’re tuning window would be slightly smaller, though I don’t know how much smaller or what the actual rich peak power AFR would be. As long as you watch the plugs and “sneak up” on timing, I can’t see it hurting anything. Should stretch the injectors/pump quite a bit!
I loaded up with E50 for winter storage and injector cleaning purposes. Also wanted to see if I could get my duty cycle on my 160’s low enough to idle well. Idles fine… stinks to high hell! I have my exhaust dumped right under the engine bay. Never noticed the smell with E85.
Thanks for all the tech in this thread. I live in East Dundee, just up the road and am purchasing a zo6 tuned for e85. Knowing what I can get, where is helpful.
I did see that Shell claims they offer consistent e83, which is exactly what the tuner suggested.
Thanks for all the tech in this thread. I live in East Dundee, just up the road and am purchasing a zo6 tuned for e85. Knowing what I can get, where is helpful.
I did see that Shell claims they offer consistent e83, which is exactly what the tuner suggested.
No problem. So far Speedway seems to be the only place to avoid. Shell states it will be up to e83. So it could be significantly lower. I go to the Shell on Higgins across from the quarry to get gas on the way to work. I will test that one and see how Shell's stuff compares. I also need to check to see if it's still the winter blend and Thorton's.
Another development in Chicagoland is Thornton's seems to be going all in with ethanol. They have updated all of their ethanol stations with more E85 pumps and now offer Unleaded15 (E15).
I test a Road Ranger station in Carpentersville at Randall and Huntley Road. It's the cheapest I have seen in my area at $2.01. Nice price considering all the Chicagoland Thorton's raised their price from 2.19 to 2.29 in the last month. It shows E82 but you can see the level is not to the top since some leaked out all over myself while shaking it. I am pretty sure the would be right at E85 or higher. One thing I noticed was the smell. I smell each sample and this one had a sweeter boozier smell than all the other tests which mostly smelled like, well, gas. I have read that not all ethanol is refined from corn which is why some smell different.
I admit I am a bit worried about the black tar issues. I plan on attempting to run a single station source and get some miles and check the injectors. Depending on results I may change the source but stay consistent until the next injector check.
When I ran e85 in my 90 eclipse I would get that black tar build up. As I put more miles on the car with e85 the less build up of it I would get between checks. I use seafoam and it dissolves that black tar. Made cleaning them a breeze.
Thornton's seems to be in on E85 for the long haul. I tested some yesterday and looks like the shift back to the summer blend has started. You will notice that they are being kinda sneaky with the Unleaded15. If you have a flex fuel vehicle and it adjusts for it, you are actually getting a worse deal with reduced mileage.
I just checked the Shell station in East Dundee and it was Only e60. The Lake in the Hills station is closed, but I just tried the East Algonquin Thorton station. That one was the 80 please wake in the Hills station is closed, but I just tried the East Algonquin Thorton season. That one was e80.
I wanted to update this because I think I might have been wrong about the injector goo being related to E85. I think I had an oil consumption issue related to my PCV. I removed the PCV and the injector goo was gone withing 100 miles.
It seems that Thorton's is dropping the content lately. I show E77 as of 9-25-16. This time last year it was E89 still. It does not really change how the car runs though.
01-10-2016, 12:45 PM
