5.3 or 5.7 800+whp
09-25-2016, 09:11 AM
#21
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Your getting so decent advice here and yeah you don't have to replace your crank I only did for piece of mind and due to the fact that my old one had some grooves in it that I didn't like. stock crank on the 5 3s will hold plenty of power if done right. for what your wanting honestly your tune is going to be more important that anything. you really don't need to blow a ton of money on your bottom end if just looking for 7-800. I mentioned earlier about the l33 because their readily available(for now) and their usually cheap when you find them and yes they have thicker cylinder walls which makes them ideal for boost. that was one of the issues with the ls1 block was their thin walls. Honestly aluminum l33 or cast iron 5.3 you can't go wrong. and yep if you don't already know your gonna be spending some cash on this thing. after I upgraded fuel system, tr6060 trans, twin disc mcleod, custom d/s, fabbed 9 inch w/s track+35 spline axles, aluminum center section, 10 pt for safety/strengthen chassis, custom radiator/fans, twin intank pumps, 315 drag radials(which dont always hook) wider rims because you cant put 315s on stock rims, upgrade shifter, electronic boost controller, interior guages, efi live or hp tuners/laptop, complete brake upgrade because stock brakes will not be enough with this power level, and don't forget your engine being build right and your entire turbo setup/cutting/fabbing intercooler setup, you see where Im going with this... you get into money really quick even if you do all the work yourself like alot of us on here do. just something to keep in mind. some people on here have way more money than me so maybe it's no thing for you. I literally build my entire car by using side job money and im also a tech so I had constant access to a lift and my 40k in tools I use every day kinda helped me out. just be prepared what your getting into!!
09-25-2016, 11:08 AM
#22
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Your getting so decent advice here and yeah you don't have to replace your crank I only did for piece of mind and due to the fact that my old one had some grooves in it that I didn't like. stock crank on the 5 3s will hold plenty of power if done right. for what your wanting honestly your tune is going to be more important that anything. you really don't need to blow a ton of money on your bottom end if just looking for 7-800. I mentioned earlier about the l33 because their readily available(for now) and their usually cheap when you find them and yes they have thicker cylinder walls which makes them ideal for boost. that was one of the issues with the ls1 block was their thin walls. Honestly aluminum l33 or cast iron 5.3 you can't go wrong. and yep if you don't already know your gonna be spending some cash on this thing. after I upgraded fuel system, tr6060 trans, twin disc mcleod, custom d/s, fabbed 9 inch w/s track+35 spline axles, aluminum center section, 10 pt for safety/strengthen chassis, custom radiator/fans, twin intank pumps, 315 drag radials(which dont always hook) wider rims because you cant put 315s on stock rims, upgrade shifter, electronic boost controller, interior guages, efi live or hp tuners/laptop, complete brake upgrade because stock brakes will not be enough with this power level, and don't forget your engine being build right and your entire turbo setup/cutting/fabbing intercooler setup, you see where Im going with this... you get into money really quick even if you do all the work yourself like alot of us on here do. just something to keep in mind. some people on here have way more money than me so maybe it's no thing for you. I literally build my entire car by using side job money and im also a tech so I had constant access to a lift and my 40k in tools I use every day kinda helped me out. just be prepared what your getting into!!
09-25-2016, 12:05 PM
#23
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I've bought 3 5.3 long blocks in good running condition over the last 6 months for 200-250- and the last being 300 for a 40k mile engine . One of which with only a turbo cam, springs, pushrods and a on3 kit is seeing 650 rwhp . If you're anywhere local to menu know where there is a half dozen more in that price range as well. Hell I bought a 60k mile 6.0 for my car for 600.00
09-25-2016, 12:27 PM
#24
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If you have been looking at Thompson Motorsports engines, you will see that their Stage 1 shortblock is rated to 700hp and uses a stock crank and stock rods with forged pistons. People have pushed the stock rotating assemblies pretty far.
And their Stage 2 is literally only rated for an extra 100hp with the addition of forged rods, but that is still using a stock crankshaft and rated to 800hp. I probably would get the Stage 1, honestly. Put the money saved into the available options.
Buying a complete shortblock is nice, definitely gives you the peace of mind of knowing its condition. The Stage 1 shortblock comes to $4300 shipped with all the options/upgrades.
You could do a lot with $4300 and some smart shopping. You can buy an entire 5.3L for less than half of that. Then get a rebuild kit, some ARP hardware, and still have enough left over to get the heads ported.
You have plenty of options.
And their Stage 2 is literally only rated for an extra 100hp with the addition of forged rods, but that is still using a stock crankshaft and rated to 800hp. I probably would get the Stage 1, honestly. Put the money saved into the available options.
Buying a complete shortblock is nice, definitely gives you the peace of mind of knowing its condition. The Stage 1 shortblock comes to $4300 shipped with all the options/upgrades.
You could do a lot with $4300 and some smart shopping. You can buy an entire 5.3L for less than half of that. Then get a rebuild kit, some ARP hardware, and still have enough left over to get the heads ported.
You have plenty of options.
09-25-2016, 12:46 PM
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I've bought 3 5.3 long blocks in good running condition over the last 6 months for 200-250- and the last being 300 for a 40k mile engine . One of which with only a turbo cam, springs, pushrods and a on3 kit is seeing 650 rwhp . If you're anywhere local to menu know where there is a half dozen more in that price range as well. Hell I bought a 60k mile 6.0 for my car for 600.00
09-25-2016, 12:53 PM
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If you have been looking at Thompson Motorsports engines, you will see that their Stage 1 shortblock is rated to 700hp and uses a stock crank and stock rods with forged pistons. People have pushed the stock rotating assemblies pretty far.
And their Stage 2 is literally only rated for an extra 100hp with the addition of forged rods, but that is still using a stock crankshaft and rated to 800hp. I probably would get the Stage 1, honestly. Put the money saved into the available options.
Buying a complete shortblock is nice, definitely gives you the peace of mind of knowing its condition. The Stage 1 shortblock comes to $4300 shipped with all the options/upgrades.
You could do a lot with $4300 and some smart shopping. You can buy an entire 5.3L for less than half of that. Then get a rebuild kit, some ARP hardware, and still have enough left over to get the heads ported.
You have plenty of options.
And their Stage 2 is literally only rated for an extra 100hp with the addition of forged rods, but that is still using a stock crankshaft and rated to 800hp. I probably would get the Stage 1, honestly. Put the money saved into the available options.
Buying a complete shortblock is nice, definitely gives you the peace of mind of knowing its condition. The Stage 1 shortblock comes to $4300 shipped with all the options/upgrades.
You could do a lot with $4300 and some smart shopping. You can buy an entire 5.3L for less than half of that. Then get a rebuild kit, some ARP hardware, and still have enough left over to get the heads ported.
You have plenty of options.
09-25-2016, 02:38 PM
#27
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I am not part of any facebook groups, I already spend enough of my time on LS1Tech.
Lots of people out there are far too willing to spend your money for you. But you are also dealing with some damn tough engines, even with factory rotating assemblies. People run 15psi on stock pistons all day long and twice on Sundays. It all boils down to having a damn good tune and not being a jackass.
That being said, if you do not want to rebuild the engine yourself, or if you would simply just prefer to buy a packaged deal for peace of mind, the Thompson Motorsports shortblock definitely isn't a bad way to go. They are on this forum and stand behind their products from what I have seen.
Buying a GenIII or GenIV 5.3, iron or aluminum block, and rebuilding it yourself could be a cheaper and more viable option if you are on a budget. If you get a GenIII engine, I would pick up some GenIV rods and stock flat-top pistons. New rings for the pistons, but the stock rod bolts are fine for boost despite what some people may say.
Once again, people will preach about ARP rod bolts, which are expensive and require the rods to be machined, because people are good at spending your money for you. ARP rod bolts are nice, yes they are, but they are not necessary just for boost. If you are spinning this motor past 7500rpms, then you need ARP rod bolts, but you also need forged internals to safely spin that high on a routine basis... so putting ARP rod bolts in stock rods is actually pretty useless.
ARP head studs and main studs, absolutely. ARP rod bolts in forged rods, absolutely.
Oh, and these engines love compression. Don't neuter your build by purposefully dropping compression. With a good tune and proper cam you can safely boost 10:1, even 11:1, static compression pretty easily. These aren't Ford motors, the days of lowering compression to add boost are behind us.
Lots of people out there are far too willing to spend your money for you. But you are also dealing with some damn tough engines, even with factory rotating assemblies. People run 15psi on stock pistons all day long and twice on Sundays. It all boils down to having a damn good tune and not being a jackass.
That being said, if you do not want to rebuild the engine yourself, or if you would simply just prefer to buy a packaged deal for peace of mind, the Thompson Motorsports shortblock definitely isn't a bad way to go. They are on this forum and stand behind their products from what I have seen.
Buying a GenIII or GenIV 5.3, iron or aluminum block, and rebuilding it yourself could be a cheaper and more viable option if you are on a budget. If you get a GenIII engine, I would pick up some GenIV rods and stock flat-top pistons. New rings for the pistons, but the stock rod bolts are fine for boost despite what some people may say.
Once again, people will preach about ARP rod bolts, which are expensive and require the rods to be machined, because people are good at spending your money for you. ARP rod bolts are nice, yes they are, but they are not necessary just for boost. If you are spinning this motor past 7500rpms, then you need ARP rod bolts, but you also need forged internals to safely spin that high on a routine basis... so putting ARP rod bolts in stock rods is actually pretty useless.
ARP head studs and main studs, absolutely. ARP rod bolts in forged rods, absolutely.
Oh, and these engines love compression. Don't neuter your build by purposefully dropping compression. With a good tune and proper cam you can safely boost 10:1, even 11:1, static compression pretty easily. These aren't Ford motors, the days of lowering compression to add boost are behind us.
09-25-2016, 03:10 PM
#28
Pretty solid advice there David. I was just going to question the ARP's but you answered exactly what I was going to say. ARP's are wonderful (and kinda expensive) but not necessary for every build. From everything I've seen the rods will go before the stock bolts and as mentioned, survival lies in the tune. David do you not think re balance the rotating assembly if upgrading from Gen3 to 4 rods/pistons though?
RyanR
Oh and I come from the Ford Lightning scene years ago and know exactly what you are talking about... I had a fully built motor with 3.4 Whipple, 8:1 CR.... and a complete slug all the time besides WOT. Thank goodness things have moved forward from them days.
RyanR
Oh and I come from the Ford Lightning scene years ago and know exactly what you are talking about... I had a fully built motor with 3.4 Whipple, 8:1 CR.... and a complete slug all the time besides WOT. Thank goodness things have moved forward from them days.
Last edited by Area 51 Racing; 09-25-2016 at 03:15 PM.
09-25-2016, 03:10 PM
#29
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I am not part of any facebook groups, I already spend enough of my time on LS1Tech.
Lots of people out there are far too willing to spend your money for you. But you are also dealing with some damn tough engines, even with factory rotating assemblies. People run 15psi on stock pistons all day long and twice on Sundays. It all boils down to having a damn good tune and not being a jackass.
That being said, if you do not want to rebuild the engine yourself, or if you would simply just prefer to buy a packaged deal for peace of mind, the Thompson Motorsports shortblock definitely isn't a bad way to go. They are on this forum and stand behind their products from what I have seen.
Buying a GenIII or GenIV 5.3, iron or aluminum block, and rebuilding it yourself could be a cheaper and more viable option if you are on a budget. If you get a GenIII engine, I would pick up some GenIV rods and stock flat-top pistons. New rings for the pistons, but the stock rod bolts are fine for boost despite what some people may say.
Once again, people will preach about ARP rod bolts, which are expensive and require the rods to be machined, because people are good at spending your money for you. ARP rod bolts are nice, yes they are, but they are not necessary just for boost. If you are spinning this motor past 7500rpms, then you need ARP rod bolts, but you also need forged internals to safely spin that high on a routine basis... so putting ARP rod bolts in stock rods is actually pretty useless.
ARP head studs and main studs, absolutely. ARP rod bolts in forged rods, absolutely.
Oh, and these engines love compression. Don't neuter your build by purposefully dropping compression. With a good tune and proper cam you can safely boost 10:1, even 11:1, static compression pretty easily. These aren't Ford motors, the days of lowering compression to add boost are behind us.
Lots of people out there are far too willing to spend your money for you. But you are also dealing with some damn tough engines, even with factory rotating assemblies. People run 15psi on stock pistons all day long and twice on Sundays. It all boils down to having a damn good tune and not being a jackass.
That being said, if you do not want to rebuild the engine yourself, or if you would simply just prefer to buy a packaged deal for peace of mind, the Thompson Motorsports shortblock definitely isn't a bad way to go. They are on this forum and stand behind their products from what I have seen.
Buying a GenIII or GenIV 5.3, iron or aluminum block, and rebuilding it yourself could be a cheaper and more viable option if you are on a budget. If you get a GenIII engine, I would pick up some GenIV rods and stock flat-top pistons. New rings for the pistons, but the stock rod bolts are fine for boost despite what some people may say.
Once again, people will preach about ARP rod bolts, which are expensive and require the rods to be machined, because people are good at spending your money for you. ARP rod bolts are nice, yes they are, but they are not necessary just for boost. If you are spinning this motor past 7500rpms, then you need ARP rod bolts, but you also need forged internals to safely spin that high on a routine basis... so putting ARP rod bolts in stock rods is actually pretty useless.
ARP head studs and main studs, absolutely. ARP rod bolts in forged rods, absolutely.
Oh, and these engines love compression. Don't neuter your build by purposefully dropping compression. With a good tune and proper cam you can safely boost 10:1, even 11:1, static compression pretty easily. These aren't Ford motors, the days of lowering compression to add boost are behind us.
09-25-2016, 05:09 PM
#30
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Area 51, yes I personally would get the rotating assembly balanced after switching from GenIII to GenIV rods/pistons.
Ragna, keep us updated on your progress. There are a lot of experienced people on here willing to help and answer questions.
Ragna, keep us updated on your progress. There are a lot of experienced people on here willing to help and answer questions.
09-25-2016, 10:15 PM
#31
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i may just get the summit new 5.3 block and then get a rotating assembly to save myself the hassel of having to deck and hone it, is there a really big disadvantage to this? other than the fact it doesnt come with heads, oil pan yada yada.. most of the internal stuff i would replace anyways.
09-26-2016, 09:23 AM
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I'm also in Milwaukee, and building a iron 5.3L/on3 78mm on e85. The way I look at it is, junkyard motor, cheap China turbo. With this setup, I just want to get used to a boosted v8 rwd, I also have built a turbo'd b16 swapped 91 civic. The next motor going in the truck will be a forged 5.3L/s484.
When you put your motor back together, you can open your ring gaps a little.
When you put your motor back together, you can open your ring gaps a little.
09-26-2016, 11:55 AM
#33
TECH Fanatic
I think a stock LS1 would live forever at 799whp. And remember, HP does not break ****, torque does. I ran almost 2 seasons around 850whp, and only bent rods after some tard at a car meet cranked my boost controller and set the car to "all of it"
09-26-2016, 02:28 PM
#36
Originally Posted by coltboostin
I think a stock LS1 would live forever at 799whp. And remember, HP does not break ****, torque does. I ran almost 2 seasons around 850whp, and only bent rods after some tard at a car meet cranked my boost controller and set the car to "all of it"
Last edited by oscs; 09-26-2016 at 02:39 PM.
09-26-2016, 04:51 PM
#37
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I may do this then buy a 5.3l when I blow up the ls1 and deal with it then
09-26-2016, 05:09 PM
#38
i may just get the summit new 5.3 block and then get a rotating assembly to save myself the hassel of having to deck and hone it, is there a really big disadvantage to this? other than the fact it doesnt come with heads, oil pan yada yada.. most of the internal stuff i would replace anyways.
I went with the 5.3 summit block, I bought mine before the deal (399.99+99shipping)
So 299.99+shipping is even better. I had a very reputable engine builder put the short block together with a lite hone, polished crank,(K1) balance rotating assemble, degree cam. install freeze plugs, That was around 1000 bucks. But as stated before me. all the little stuff adds up. Like censors, gaskets, bolts.. But you do have a ls1 doner you could get a lot of those off that. I have around 6k into mine. all forged, all the acc,censors, nuts and bolts are new with every bell and whistle that these guys have listed for a good reliable 1000whp set up. But most likely get tuned to around 850-900rwhp.
It does ad up quick though as stated. A set of 243/799 heads are 2-400 here and cl, ad a set of BTR 660+,$300 and valve job, clean valves,milling(.003-.005)$300 or more if you want a 3-5 angle job.
09-26-2016, 05:42 PM
#39
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I'm also in Milwaukee, and building a iron 5.3L/on3 78mm on e85. The way I look at it is, junkyard motor, cheap China turbo. With this setup, I just want to get used to a boosted v8 rwd, I also have built a turbo'd b16 swapped 91 civic. The next motor going in the truck will be a forged 5.3L/s484.
When you put your motor back together, you can open your ring gaps a little.
When you put your motor back together, you can open your ring gaps a little.
09-26-2016, 05:51 PM
#40
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I went with the 5.3 summit block, I bought mine before the deal (399.99+99shipping)
So 299.99+shipping is even better. I had a very reputable engine builder put the short block together with a lite hone, polished crank,(K1) balance rotating assemble, degree cam. install freeze plugs, That was around 1000 bucks. But as stated before me. all the little stuff adds up. Like censors, gaskets, bolts.. But you do have a ls1 doner you could get a lot of those off that. I have around 6k into mine. all forged, all the acc,censors, nuts and bolts are new with every bell and whistle that these guys have listed for a good reliable 1000whp set up. But most likely get tuned to around 850-900rwhp.
It does ad up quick though as stated. A set of 243/799 heads are 2-400 here and cl, ad a set of BTR 660+,$300 and valve job, clean valves,milling(.003-.005)$300 or more if you want a 3-5 angle job.
So 299.99+shipping is even better. I had a very reputable engine builder put the short block together with a lite hone, polished crank,(K1) balance rotating assemble, degree cam. install freeze plugs, That was around 1000 bucks. But as stated before me. all the little stuff adds up. Like censors, gaskets, bolts.. But you do have a ls1 doner you could get a lot of those off that. I have around 6k into mine. all forged, all the acc,censors, nuts and bolts are new with every bell and whistle that these guys have listed for a good reliable 1000whp set up. But most likely get tuned to around 850-900rwhp.
It does ad up quick though as stated. A set of 243/799 heads are 2-400 here and cl, ad a set of BTR 660+,$300 and valve job, clean valves,milling(.003-.005)$300 or more if you want a 3-5 angle job.