ATI stage II blower w/custom fuel system???
11-10-2002, 05:52 AM
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ATI stage II blower w/custom fuel system??? What kind of a fuel system are you guys recommending with ATI P-1SC stage II @8psi and 42lbs. injectors? (as far as fuel pumps, etc.)
11-10-2002, 09:03 AM
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Re: ATI stage II blower w/custom fuel system??? Golden West Performance makes the ATI Procharger Stage II Kit. Their number is 303-346-5232.
Here is their info page addressing your quesions:
http://www.goldenwestperformance.com/ls1.htm
Here is their info page addressing your quesions:
http://www.goldenwestperformance.com/ls1.htm
11-10-2002, 10:53 AM
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Re: ATI stage II blower w/custom fuel system??? Thanks for the reply Black LS1 T/A .
What kind of a fuel setup are you using? What do you and the other guys think about running a second pump in series (Aeromotive A1000) with the stock in-tank pump? The Aeromotive pump is controlled by a hobbs switch.
And having the aeromotive pump turn on only under boost?
<small>[ November 11, 2002, 01:17 AM: Message edited by: spectra57 ]</small>
What kind of a fuel setup are you using? What do you and the other guys think about running a second pump in series (Aeromotive A1000) with the stock in-tank pump? The Aeromotive pump is controlled by a hobbs switch.
And having the aeromotive pump turn on only under boost?
<small>[ November 11, 2002, 01:17 AM: Message edited by: spectra57 ]</small>
11-10-2002, 11:26 PM
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Re: ATI stage II blower w/custom fuel system??? Thanks scott ws6, What do you mean all I need is the "booster" pump? What about the in tank pump? Can I leave it alone and not have any fuel pressure/volume problems? Details would be very helpful, Thanks. What do you think about the aeromotive pump turning on only under boost??
11-11-2002, 03:45 AM
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Re: ATI stage II blower w/custom fuel system??? I'm pretty sure that's how Black LS1 T/A's fuel system is set up. Stock intank pump/regulator with an inline pump (aka booster) and bigger injectors. That's how all the GWP kits are. He'll have more insight there for ya soon. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />
<small>[ November 11, 2002, 03:46 AM: Message edited by: AzzHauler ]</small>
<small>[ November 11, 2002, 03:46 AM: Message edited by: AzzHauler ]</small>
11-11-2002, 09:15 AM
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Re: ATI stage II blower w/custom fuel system??? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by AzzHauler:
<strong>I'm pretty sure that's how Black LS1 T/A's fuel system is set up. Stock intank pump/regulator with an inline pump (aka booster) and bigger injectors. That's how all the GWP kits are. He'll have more insight there for ya soon. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks for the input AzzHauler.Could use a little more insight as far as how their fuel system is working with an Aeromotive A1000 pump at idle in series with the in tank pump when you don't go into boost. What kind of fuel pressure are you seeing when not in boost and where does it go while making boost?? Does the fuel pressure jump around?? Thanks.
<strong>I'm pretty sure that's how Black LS1 T/A's fuel system is set up. Stock intank pump/regulator with an inline pump (aka booster) and bigger injectors. That's how all the GWP kits are. He'll have more insight there for ya soon. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks for the input AzzHauler.Could use a little more insight as far as how their fuel system is working with an Aeromotive A1000 pump at idle in series with the in tank pump when you don't go into boost. What kind of fuel pressure are you seeing when not in boost and where does it go while making boost?? Does the fuel pressure jump around?? Thanks.
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11-11-2002, 09:23 AM
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Re: ATI stage II blower w/custom fuel system??? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by AzzHauler:
<strong>I'm pretty sure that's how Black LS1 T/A's fuel system is set up. Stock intank pump/regulator with an inline pump (aka booster) and bigger injectors. That's how all the GWP kits are. He'll have more insight there for ya soon. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks for the input AzzHauler.Could use a little more insight as far as how their fuel system is working with an Aeromotive A1000 pump at idle in series with the in tank pump when you don't go into boost. What kind of fuel pressure are you seeing when not in boost and where does it go while making boost?? Does the fuel pressure jump around?? Thanks.
<strong>I'm pretty sure that's how Black LS1 T/A's fuel system is set up. Stock intank pump/regulator with an inline pump (aka booster) and bigger injectors. That's how all the GWP kits are. He'll have more insight there for ya soon. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks for the input AzzHauler.Could use a little more insight as far as how their fuel system is working with an Aeromotive A1000 pump at idle in series with the in tank pump when you don't go into boost. What kind of fuel pressure are you seeing when not in boost and where does it go while making boost?? Does the fuel pressure jump around?? Thanks.
11-11-2002, 10:05 AM
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Re: ATI stage II blower w/custom fuel system??? GWP has the Aeromotive pump maintain fuel pressure (between 56 and 60 PSI, from the posts I've seen, 58 being average) and let the injectors and programming supply the needed fuel.
The fuel pressure is approx the same at idle, crusing or at WOT. There is a very brief dip in PSI right when you go to boost, but it's so quick, you would miss it if you blinked.
The in-line pump is rigged to come on only under boost. We have discussed putting a regulator in that would have the pump run variably on demand/varying boost... even for it to run a bit at idle, perhaps to keep from heating the fuel.
The fuel pressure is approx the same at idle, crusing or at WOT. There is a very brief dip in PSI right when you go to boost, but it's so quick, you would miss it if you blinked.
The in-line pump is rigged to come on only under boost. We have discussed putting a regulator in that would have the pump run variably on demand/varying boost... even for it to run a bit at idle, perhaps to keep from heating the fuel.
11-11-2002, 11:12 AM
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Re: ATI stage II blower w/custom fuel system??? Black LS1 T/A you have an ATI blower With GWP stage II kit, OK. With 42lbs. injectors, Smaller pulley(3.20in.), custom programming and an Aeromotive pump in series with your in-tank pump, right? And the Aeromotive pump is controlled by a hobbs switch that turns this pump on only when you are making boost, otherwise that pump is off and the in-tank pump has to push the fuel through the aeromotive pump. Doesn't this wear the bearings, etc. on the A1000?? Do you have any problems with this setup? The guys I spoke with said either run a second fuel line so you have the pumps in parrell or just replace the in -tank pump with a walboro. What do you guys think about this?
11-11-2002, 01:03 PM
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Re: ATI stage II blower w/custom fuel system??? I would replace the intank pump and add a vacum/boost referenced regulator.
That's what I have done and it works beautifully.
Makes tuning easier as well as your FP at the engine will remain a constant value.
No more FP being all over the place as it is when you use an inline pump.
I have done it both ways, both techinally work. I prefer less moving parts and knowing my FP is at X value no matter what for tuning purposes.
That's what I have done and it works beautifully.
Makes tuning easier as well as your FP at the engine will remain a constant value.
No more FP being all over the place as it is when you use an inline pump.
I have done it both ways, both techinally work. I prefer less moving parts and knowing my FP is at X value no matter what for tuning purposes.
11-11-2002, 10:58 PM
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Re: ATI stage II blower w/custom fuel system??? I have dash 10 out of the tank to the first filter then pump then another filter, then dash 8 all the way up front. I then modified the fuel rail to make it returnable off the rail with dash 6 all the way back for the return. I also have the aero fuel pressure regulator.
11-12-2002, 01:15 AM
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Re: ATI stage II blower w/custom fuel system??? I have one fuel filter. It's the aeromotive 100 micron filter. Is that good enough?? What type of Filters are you using and does it make a difference if it's a 60 or 100 micron filter?
Thanks.
Thanks.
11-12-2002, 05:58 AM
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Re: ATI stage II blower w/custom fuel system??? Black LS1 T/A you have an ATI blower With GWP stage II kit, OK. With 42lbs. injectors, Smaller pulley(3.20in.), custom programming and an Aeromotive pump in series with your in-tank pump, right? And the Aeromotive pump is controlled by a hobbs switch that turns this pump on only when you are making boost, otherwise that pump is off and the in-tank pump has to push the fuel through the aeromotive pump. Doesn't this wear the bearings, etc. on the A1000?? Do you have any problems with this setup? The guys I spoke with said either run a second fuel line so you have the pumps in parrell or just replace the in -tank pump with a walboro. What do you guys think about this?
11-12-2002, 06:03 AM
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Re: ATI stage II blower w/custom fuel system??? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by spectra57:
<strong>Black LS1 T/A you have an ATI blower With GWP stage II kit, OK. With 42lbs. injectors, Smaller pulley(3.20in.), custom programming and an Aeromotive pump in series with your in-tank pump, right? And the Aeromotive pump is controlled by a hobbs switch that turns this pump on only when you are making boost, otherwise that pump is off and the in-tank pump has to push the fuel through the aeromotive pump. Doesn't this wear the bearings, etc. on the A1000?? Do you have any problems with this setup? The guys I spoke with said either run a second fuel line so you have the pumps in parrell or just replace the in -tank pump with a walboro. What do you guys think about this?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">GWP is not as silly as you think. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
Though in-line is not the optimal way to do it, it is easy and works... for this particular pump... and it's not the A1000... it's in that capacity range, but not the same one. There are things about the pump GWP uses that allows the stock in-line pump to pump fuel thru with no problem.
I talked to Aeromotive and they said this does NOT wear the bearings out. The issue he was specifically concerned about that during actual operation there is bound to be cavitation because the pumps are in serial operation. Yet, he said, since the pump is only on for WOT bursts, he can see how this arrangement has worked for most people he has talked to.
Of, course... he thinks a single pump that handles the load required, or perhaps a parallel arrangement, where their pump is taking fuel from the bottom of the tank and there is a check valve that constrains flow back to the tank during stock pump operation would be better.
But, people wanted an "easy" solution. GWP has not said you can't fabricate a better solution. They just came up with an "easy" solution that works. It's been working for me and many others.
Now, it may no longer work with the demands of the 422. This is what we will be evaluating as I tune my new setup. How quickly I can implement another fueling solution also depends on how quickly I can recuperate from having bought a new motor AND a new tranny. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
You can take polls of folk all day long about whether they think the setup GWP has done for me works. I only know of a couple A4's, not spraying, who have run better times on a totally stock motor. And I deliberately did not tune for more power (ran less than 10:1 A/F ratio up to 5500 RPMs) because I knew my tranny would not hold up to more power anyway.
<strong>Black LS1 T/A you have an ATI blower With GWP stage II kit, OK. With 42lbs. injectors, Smaller pulley(3.20in.), custom programming and an Aeromotive pump in series with your in-tank pump, right? And the Aeromotive pump is controlled by a hobbs switch that turns this pump on only when you are making boost, otherwise that pump is off and the in-tank pump has to push the fuel through the aeromotive pump. Doesn't this wear the bearings, etc. on the A1000?? Do you have any problems with this setup? The guys I spoke with said either run a second fuel line so you have the pumps in parrell or just replace the in -tank pump with a walboro. What do you guys think about this?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">GWP is not as silly as you think. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
Though in-line is not the optimal way to do it, it is easy and works... for this particular pump... and it's not the A1000... it's in that capacity range, but not the same one. There are things about the pump GWP uses that allows the stock in-line pump to pump fuel thru with no problem.
I talked to Aeromotive and they said this does NOT wear the bearings out. The issue he was specifically concerned about that during actual operation there is bound to be cavitation because the pumps are in serial operation. Yet, he said, since the pump is only on for WOT bursts, he can see how this arrangement has worked for most people he has talked to.
Of, course... he thinks a single pump that handles the load required, or perhaps a parallel arrangement, where their pump is taking fuel from the bottom of the tank and there is a check valve that constrains flow back to the tank during stock pump operation would be better.
But, people wanted an "easy" solution. GWP has not said you can't fabricate a better solution. They just came up with an "easy" solution that works. It's been working for me and many others.
Now, it may no longer work with the demands of the 422. This is what we will be evaluating as I tune my new setup. How quickly I can implement another fueling solution also depends on how quickly I can recuperate from having bought a new motor AND a new tranny. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" />
You can take polls of folk all day long about whether they think the setup GWP has done for me works. I only know of a couple A4's, not spraying, who have run better times on a totally stock motor. And I deliberately did not tune for more power (ran less than 10:1 A/F ratio up to 5500 RPMs) because I knew my tranny would not hold up to more power anyway.
11-12-2002, 11:00 AM
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Re: ATI stage II blower w/custom fuel system??? trust me, the aeromotive pump is not a restriction to pump through when it's off!
I use one with a custom made 10an pickup from the top of the tank.
The pump is mounted lower than the pickup.
Well one day I had to disconnect the pressure side of the pump.
I could not believe it had a perfect siphon going through the non running pump!
I had to quickly pull the pickup out of the tank to break this siphon as gas just would not stop flowing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
Lucky for me I have a access panel in the hatch to the top of the tank so I could pull the pickup out quickly.
You will lose quite a bit of flow running a intank pump to feed the aeromotive.
Pumps in series flow only as much as the weakest pump.There is no pressure on the intank pump so it will flow a lot more than normal. But still much less than the aeromotive by itself with a 10an pickup.
Steve
I use one with a custom made 10an pickup from the top of the tank.
The pump is mounted lower than the pickup.
Well one day I had to disconnect the pressure side of the pump.
I could not believe it had a perfect siphon going through the non running pump!
I had to quickly pull the pickup out of the tank to break this siphon as gas just would not stop flowing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
Lucky for me I have a access panel in the hatch to the top of the tank so I could pull the pickup out quickly.
You will lose quite a bit of flow running a intank pump to feed the aeromotive.
Pumps in series flow only as much as the weakest pump.There is no pressure on the intank pump so it will flow a lot more than normal. But still much less than the aeromotive by itself with a 10an pickup.
Steve
11-12-2002, 11:55 PM
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Re: ATI stage II blower w/custom fuel system??? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by SJH:
<strong>trust me, the aeromotive pump is not a restriction to pump through when it's off!
I use one with a custom made 10an pickup from the top of the tank.
The pump is mounted lower than the pickup.
Well one day I had to disconnect the pressure side of the pump.
I could not believe it had a perfect siphon going through the non running pump!
I had to quickly pull the pickup out of the tank to break this siphon as gas just would not stop flowing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
Lucky for me I have a access panel in the hatch to the top of the tank so I could pull the pickup out quickly.
You will lose quite a bit of flow running a intank pump to feed the aeromotive.
Pumps in series flow only as much as the weakest pump.There is no pressure on the intank pump so it will flow a lot more than normal. But still much less than the aeromotive by itself with a 10an pickup.
Steve</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks Steve for shining a little more light on this matter. So are suggesting to ditch the in-tank pump and just run the Aeromotive, on all the time? Thanks again ,you guys are a big help!
<strong>trust me, the aeromotive pump is not a restriction to pump through when it's off!
I use one with a custom made 10an pickup from the top of the tank.
The pump is mounted lower than the pickup.
Well one day I had to disconnect the pressure side of the pump.
I could not believe it had a perfect siphon going through the non running pump!
I had to quickly pull the pickup out of the tank to break this siphon as gas just would not stop flowing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
Lucky for me I have a access panel in the hatch to the top of the tank so I could pull the pickup out quickly.
You will lose quite a bit of flow running a intank pump to feed the aeromotive.
Pumps in series flow only as much as the weakest pump.There is no pressure on the intank pump so it will flow a lot more than normal. But still much less than the aeromotive by itself with a 10an pickup.
Steve</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks Steve for shining a little more light on this matter. So are suggesting to ditch the in-tank pump and just run the Aeromotive, on all the time? Thanks again ,you guys are a big help!
11-16-2002, 04:08 AM
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Re: ATI stage II blower w/custom fuel system??? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by scott ws6:
<strong>I have dash 10 out of the tank to the first filter then pump then another filter, then dash 8 all the way up front. I then modified the fuel rail to make it returnable off the rail with dash 6 all the way back for the return. I also have the aero fuel pressure regulator.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">scott ws6 , You are only using one pump w/12psi on a D1 blower? What is the brand and model??
<strong>I have dash 10 out of the tank to the first filter then pump then another filter, then dash 8 all the way up front. I then modified the fuel rail to make it returnable off the rail with dash 6 all the way back for the return. I also have the aero fuel pressure regulator.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">scott ws6 , You are only using one pump w/12psi on a D1 blower? What is the brand and model??