Dissapointing dyno numbers.
02-17-2010, 10:24 AM
#21
what year is your car,this plays a big part along with the big stall.If its a ls1 intake and 853 headed auto car your numbers are about dead on,i have a customer who has long tubes,lid,12 bolt 3.73s 3600 tci converter and makes 312 on a dyno jet unlocked,but his car goes mid 12s with ease...Dynos are not everything my friend,its just a number,and the auto cars show poor numbers on the dyno.But big deal.
02-17-2010, 10:48 AM
#23
Plenty of '98 guys dyno the same as 99+ guys. The difference in the heads is negligeable, and 98's have a slightly larger cam as well. So basically it ends up evening out. My 98 put down 341WHP with bolt ons and a tune, same as 99+ cars.
02-17-2010, 11:56 AM
#24
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It's the LS1 intake and 806 heads holding the car back a bit, in addition to the KR.
02-17-2010, 12:29 PM
#25
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Sorry for the newbness....why would a big stall show low #s? Loose converter isnt putting all the power down?
I cant believe I don't know this, since I had a 3400 stall in my intercooled/built tranny grand prix, GTP. Stall made it easier to launch, but would still roast the tires at 45-50
I cant believe I don't know this, since I had a 3400 stall in my intercooled/built tranny grand prix, GTP. Stall made it easier to launch, but would still roast the tires at 45-50
02-17-2010, 12:33 PM
#26
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An engine life spent living on CA-grade 91 octane under unknown driving conditions from previous owners means that you might have a lot of carbon build up in the combustion chambers and/or fouled injector tips.
I'd spend some time on a major tune-up before digging any deeper. Seafoam via a vacuum line for the top end cleaning, Red Line and/or Seafoam treatment in the fuel (for the injectors & top end), new fuel filter, new plugs, clean/replace air filter, and do a good cleaning on the MAF. Do all that, and you should be rid of any actual detonation.
I'd spend some time on a major tune-up before digging any deeper. Seafoam via a vacuum line for the top end cleaning, Red Line and/or Seafoam treatment in the fuel (for the injectors & top end), new fuel filter, new plugs, clean/replace air filter, and do a good cleaning on the MAF. Do all that, and you should be rid of any actual detonation.
Word.
The PCM isn't holding him back (on a stock tune vs a stock '99+ PCM and tune). '98 PCM is harder to tune for big power setups, like forced induction, but even still a good tuner can do fine with it. Either way, he's got a stock tune so this has nothing to do with it.
It's the LS1 intake and 806 heads holding the car back a bit, in addition to the KR.
It's the LS1 intake and 806 heads holding the car back a bit, in addition to the KR.
02-17-2010, 01:59 PM
#28
any more details on the stall?
i also blame the 98 knock sensors - do you ever hear pinging? regardless of whether the knock is real, the timing pulled is real and is holding the car back a few.
the 7 degrees on the bottle sounds like you need to tune for it, though... might as well also desensitize (in the tune) the knock sensors while you're in there.
i also blame the 98 knock sensors - do you ever hear pinging? regardless of whether the knock is real, the timing pulled is real and is holding the car back a few.
the 7 degrees on the bottle sounds like you need to tune for it, though... might as well also desensitize (in the tune) the knock sensors while you're in there.
02-17-2010, 02:10 PM
#29
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Why would you dyno it and not get it tuned? You spent all that money on the upgrades, but don't get the most important part done... the tune??? 
From what I gather from your post, you also sprayed it without a tune?
What kind of plugs and wires are you using? What is the gap set at? Are you still using the stock heat shields on an aftermarket wire such as an MSD? If you use the stock heat shield on an MSD wire, it does not allow the wire to slide down all the way on the plug. I would suggest NGK TR6s (non platinum) if you spray it. Who makes the stall that you are using?
What brand fuel are you using? Not all 91 or 93 octane gasolines are the same.
A stall converter will generally show a slightly lower hp number if not locked... not much though in your case. Torque generally falls off when unlocked, but won't "fall off" when the converter is locked... looking more like a stick car dyno.
Unless your car is making a lot of power, there is no reason to beat up the converter by locking it on the dyno. Plus... you aren't locking the converter in 3rd gear at the track, are you?
Being that you have 3.42s, that will also "show" a lower dyno number. Gear swaps are usually good for a 8-10 rwhp "loss".
From what I gather from your post, you also sprayed it without a tune? What kind of plugs and wires are you using? What is the gap set at? Are you still using the stock heat shields on an aftermarket wire such as an MSD? If you use the stock heat shield on an MSD wire, it does not allow the wire to slide down all the way on the plug. I would suggest NGK TR6s (non platinum) if you spray it. Who makes the stall that you are using?
What brand fuel are you using? Not all 91 or 93 octane gasolines are the same.
A stall converter will generally show a slightly lower hp number if not locked... not much though in your case. Torque generally falls off when unlocked, but won't "fall off" when the converter is locked... looking more like a stick car dyno.
Unless your car is making a lot of power, there is no reason to beat up the converter by locking it on the dyno. Plus... you aren't locking the converter in 3rd gear at the track, are you?
Being that you have 3.42s, that will also "show" a lower dyno number. Gear swaps are usually good for a 8-10 rwhp "loss".
02-17-2010, 02:33 PM
#30
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Why would you dyno it and not get it tuned? You spent all that money on the upgrades, but don't get the most important part done... the tune??? From what I gather from your post, you also sprayed it without a tune?
What kind of plugs and wires are you using? What is the gap set at? Are you still using the stock heat shields on an aftermarket wire such as an MSD? If you use the stock heat shield on an MSD wire, it does not allow the wire to slide down all the way on the plug. I would suggest NGK TR6s (non platinum) if you spray it. Who makes the stall that you are using?
What brand fuel are you using? Not all 91 or 93 octane gasolines are the same.
A stall converter will generally show a slightly lower hp number if not locked... not much though in your case. Torque generally falls off when unlocked, but won't "fall off" when the converter is locked... looking more like a stick car dyno.
Unless your car is making a lot of power, there is no reason to beat up the converter by locking it on the dyno. Plus... you aren't locking the converter in 3rd gear at the track, are you?
Being that you have 3.42s, that will also "show" a lower dyno number. Gear swaps are usually good for a 8-10 rwhp "loss".
From what I gather from your post, you also sprayed it without a tune? What kind of plugs and wires are you using? What is the gap set at? Are you still using the stock heat shields on an aftermarket wire such as an MSD? If you use the stock heat shield on an MSD wire, it does not allow the wire to slide down all the way on the plug. I would suggest NGK TR6s (non platinum) if you spray it. Who makes the stall that you are using?
What brand fuel are you using? Not all 91 or 93 octane gasolines are the same.
A stall converter will generally show a slightly lower hp number if not locked... not much though in your case. Torque generally falls off when unlocked, but won't "fall off" when the converter is locked... looking more like a stick car dyno.
Unless your car is making a lot of power, there is no reason to beat up the converter by locking it on the dyno. Plus... you aren't locking the converter in 3rd gear at the track, are you?
Being that you have 3.42s, that will also "show" a lower dyno number. Gear swaps are usually good for a 8-10 rwhp "loss".
As stated before on the thread I am getting MSD wires and the only reason I dyno'ed it is because my buddy and a bunch of us were going to the dyno and they talked me into it so we got a discount. I only spent 25 bucks on the dyno runs. Otherwise I would never have got it dyno'ed then let alone on a mustang dyno.
Also stated before I used gas from 76 but usually get it from the gas station on base.
02-17-2010, 02:43 PM
#31
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I agree with the others that mention a little bit of false KR being the product of '98 knock sensors, but not 7 degrees. Sounds like you've done most of the tune up, but make sure that MAF is clean (I like to use Q-tips and rubbing alcohol).
02-17-2010, 04:18 PM
#33
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It's also possible that you pinched the knock sensor harness when you installed the LS6 intake manifold.
Replace the knock sensors with the '99-'02 style.
Fuddle converter? That might be part of the problem too.
Replace the knock sensors with the '99-'02 style.
Fuddle converter? That might be part of the problem too.
02-18-2010, 01:31 AM
#35
Also dont use msd wires,there crap and fall apart.
And correct the ecu doesnt hold him back stock,but if the guy tuning it doesnt know how to tune the older os then it will hold him back,thats what i was trying to get at.And im sorry a 243 head on 01 and up is far better then 853 heads.I would also turn the knocks down aswell.
And correct the ecu doesnt hold him back stock,but if the guy tuning it doesnt know how to tune the older os then it will hold him back,thats what i was trying to get at.And im sorry a 243 head on 01 and up is far better then 853 heads.I would also turn the knocks down aswell.
02-18-2010, 01:33 AM
#36
Also like others have said,if its had a k and n filter and ever been over oiled your maff is dirty and causing issues,I just fixed a car that had that same problem,kid didnt know and put a ton of oil on it,maff went nuts and fuel trims were locked at 15%,and gave the car some very odd drivabilty issues and even caused issues at wot.
02-18-2010, 02:24 AM
#37
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As for 853s, '98s didn't come stock with those either, they had 806s.
'01-'02 cars came with 241s, which are in fact better flowing heads than the 806/853, however the improvement would be very slight on an otherwise stock engined '98-'00 car. The '01/'02 will usually dyno a bit higher stock due to the combination of the better heads, LS6 intake, and improved exhaust manifolds. Only thing hold the '01/'02 back is the *slightly* milder cam. A '98-'00 cam in an otherwise totally stock '01/'02 engine would be the best possibile combination of factory LS1 parts.
02-18-2010, 10:28 AM
#39
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The LS6 isn't even installed yet, I stated the several times in this thread.
Do I have to replace the harness to when I replace them?
The converter is great I don't know why people rag on them but this is a converter from earlier when they were actually good so before they got shitty I guess.
02-18-2010, 10:40 AM
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Also dont use msd wires,there crap and fall apart.
And correct the ecu doesnt hold him back stock,but if the guy tuning it doesnt know how to tune the older os then it will hold him back,thats what i was trying to get at.And im sorry a 243 head on 01 and up is far better then 853 heads.I would also turn the knocks down aswell.
And correct the ecu doesnt hold him back stock,but if the guy tuning it doesnt know how to tune the older os then it will hold him back,thats what i was trying to get at.And im sorry a 243 head on 01 and up is far better then 853 heads.I would also turn the knocks down aswell.