PAGregSS

iTrader: (10)

Tell me how many seals/gaskets there are in an LS1 that are not metal and thus effected by oil detergents.

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

Well, I have over 120,000 miles on my fully forged, fully built 427ci. "daily driver". If I'm shortening its life then I'm still whipping everyone else out there in miles on an engine of this type. Its still runs like a new engine, no difference. Not a single repair has ever been done to this engine..oil changes and tune ups only. I'd say whatever it is I'm doing is working.

I did however recently realize how much friggin oil I was losing through this dumbass PCV system. I have since stopped that from happening from what I did above. Its been working great so far and my oil loss has stopped. I'm also not a PCM/tuner expert, but I can only assume that there was so much oil going into my intake that it was making me run rich because of the "black" soot that would accumulate on my rear bumpers right above each tailpipe after just a few days. Thats has also 100% stopped. Its been 6 weeks and they're spotless. For the past 4-5 years I have been wiping them clean with Goo-Off once a week. PITA

Gas mileage is better too, from not running rich I assume.

Flushing is actually the key to long engine life IMO....as far as I'm concerned. I think its actually the little trick that 99% of people don't do.

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LS6427

iTrader: (2)

Well, there's a few things happening here that we should all be able to agree on:

1) Over the years I've been burning 1 qrt ever y2 weeks, daily driving. I always assumed it was because I have 120,000+ miles on my 427ci and the engine is 7+ years old....I figured for the past 4 years or so I just need a rebuild. Cylinder walls and rings don't last forever, especially on a built, badass 427ci. So I've been using 20w50 to help that oil burn.

2) Since I started messing around with this PCV system, I found that my PCV hose was pulling massive amounts of oil through my valley cover crankcase port....I used a clear hose to see this and it was pathetic. It was like a solid stream of water flowing through a hose like the size of a squirt-gun stream. I stopped my oil burning issue, I'm not using ANY more oil.

3) 20w50 has gotten my engine this far and like I've said a million times on this site....my engine is PERFECT...like the day I bought it. So that right there says something about oil...it doesn't really matter what is used. I've been trying to tell people on this site for years that WAY too mucvh thought is put into oil choices...it all works. FOR ME....20w50 has worked amazingly and my engine is in 100% brand new shape.
How can anyone intelligently argue that point?

4) Maybe I can go down and use 10w40 or 0w30...maybe it'll be fine. But why change what has been working flawlessly?


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add|ct

I don't know much about the car you guys are driving, but if most engine wear happens at start up and right after oil changes, having a thicker oil will only cause faster wear than a thinner oil.

I'd be interested to see if you start losing oil again if you went back to the manufacturer's recommended oil. You said you went to a thicker oil to stop burning before, right? All that really does is help fill in where the wearing has occurred to slow the oil consumption, but it leaves you likely to continue to wear faster than normal.

IF you are wanting to just add some thickness to your recommended oil then add a quart of something like Lucas oil stabilizer the next time you do an oil change(just use as directed, probably you'd want 20% or 40%). That way, you are increasing the thickness to slow oil consumption like you probably need anyway and you're also using a product that won't create sludge issues and actually claims to help against wear on start up, even though its increasing the thickness of the oil.

If anyone has a car with minimal wear and its relatively new, switching over to a synthetic with a good filter can prolong the life of the engine as far as wear is concerned. Yes, you DO spend a little more, but if you have a car(like my friends Honda Fit), you have a vehicle that is recommended to be changed at 7,500 miles by Honda. You are actually already breaking even if you go 6,000 miles and spent TWICE as much for the synthetic oil/extended protection filters. Also, there are tests that show synthetic reduces friction because it sticks to all of the surfaces better and helps with gas mileage.

Case in point, my friends Fit recently went from a 5w-20 with a standard oil filter(he had been going 7,500 like Honda recommends) and after changing to Mobil1's 0w-20 he's gotten the best gas mileage in his car. Also, he's using products with GUARANTEES to last well beyond the 7,500 oil change interval he shoots for. All-in-all he paid about $35 for his oil change and he breaks even with everyone that pays for the cheapest filter/oil and does a change every 3,000 miles just by reaching 6,000 miles. Anything beyond that and he's saving money.

Benefits for him? Less engine wear at startup, less oil changes(two primary causes of engine wear), improved gas mileage, extra protection that this particular synthetic oil offers because at the molecular level a PAO based oil's life, like a Mobil1 or Amsoil, will not be degraded nearly as quickly as a conventional Petroleum based oil. Yeah, he'd be pretty stupid to run 7,500 with an oil that can ONLY last 3,000-4,000 miles with some crummy filter, when Honda calls for synthetic to begin with because its been proven that only synthetic can last that long, but you've got cars in other countries designed to go 10k+...

It goes back to if your car can take advantage of the benefits of synthetic or not and what stage of 'life' your car is at before using it. If you are exposing your car to race-like driving and are in a harsh environment, your oil life too will be affected, but overall a synthetic seems to be the way to go IF you choose what is right for your car to begin with. I'm going to be doing some experiments on my car.

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

I don't know what works for everyone else...but the only thing my engine is experiencing are worn rings....but that is 100% expected for a fully built 427ci stroker motor, especially with over 120,000 miles and the older LS1 sleeves from 2000-2001. I would have to agree that when a motor sits for a few hours, most of the oil has drained back into the pan and very little is coating the internals, especially the bearings. When bearings do get worn out we all know that the first sign is.....decreasing oil pressure readings. Mine, at cold start-up is 58psi, it then slowly falls to around 42psi when it warms up, and it'll go as low as 35psi at idle if its friggin HOT as ***** out with my A/C "on".

So I have to say, for a fact, that the "supposed" start-up wear on an engine has yet to show one tiny effect on mine yet. Same oil pressures as when it was brand new. Hell, if my engine started declining now and died in another 10,000 miles....I'll be one happy sumbitch to have gotten 130,000+ miles out of it. But its perfect and there's no end in sight.

I'd be foolish to go back to manufacturers recommended oil spec at this point. The engine is running and wearing too perfectly, why change.

add|ct

Well, thats good you've gotten so much life out of this engine. I was more or less just curious to see if running the original oil specs would cause wear to appear that is being masked by using the thicker oil, but from what you say about your car it seems like you must know what the inside looks like.

Curious, though, when you say the oil pressure is the same as when it was brand new does that include while using the same oil as you do now? Have you always ran the thicker oil?

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

**** man, sorry....58psi is about where my cold start is, not 68psi. 55-60psi is normal on intial cold start.

Well, it was 7+ years ago when the engine went in.....but I'm almost certain I used 10w40 from the get go. I know I did an oil change during break in at 100 miles, 500 miles, 800 miles. Then at 1,500 I did another one and then every 3,000 since.
I'd say from memory, maybe 3 years in everyone was telling me to expect oil burning issues simply because of the ring set I have and the long stroke. Sure enough I started burning oil 3-4 years in and a builder told me to use 20w50. It slowed the oil burn down pretty good.

But recently after messing around with different PCV set-p ideas, I've learned a shitload of my oil burning for the past 3-4 years has been through the friggin PCV system.

As far as oil pressure from when the engine was brand new....I know it was way up there where it is now, so thats why I say its basically unchanged from 7+ years ago.

I'll get a video of it and show you.


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oneBADDz

iTrader: (26)

I don't know why everyone is nutswinging someone who is swearing that what everyone has been doing for YEARS successfully doesn't work at all. Also, someone who calls synthetic "thinner" than dino oil. Also, someone who has to use 20w-50 to keep his engine from burning oil. Also, someone who thinks that accommodating his broke-*** rings with a thick oil is a good idea with no regard for what oil is actually supposed to do. I'd hate to see his bearings when that engine is torn down.

Synthetic oil is proven and he disagrees with it having any benefit at all because his engine still runs? HELLO, HE HAS TO USE 20w-50 to keep it from burning oil people, don't trust him. He brags that it's made it 120,000? Sounds to me like it's barely there considering it's lack of oil pressure and burning oil without running oil that is WAY too thick. That oil pressure he's bragging about? It's because his oil is too thick. Pressure doesn't necessarily mean good. Pressure = resistance to flow, it doesn't = more supply to vital parts of the engine.

Seafoam is PROVEN and has been for much longer than he's owned his current car. MCCC expands? Who cares, seafoam goes where the airflow goes, it gets what it needs to. His "only the rear cylinders" theory is made up too. His anti-synthetic rant is based on the fact that his dino-oil engine is still running at 120,000 when it obviously has bigass problems. Dino oil or synthetic, it shouldn't have the problems it does at his mileage. He has theories that are obviously flawed, please people stop asking his advice before you end up with an engine that has as many problems as his.

Synthetic DOES have major advantages over dino oil, it's proven
Seafoam works and definitely does a great job, it's proven
MCCC is good stuff, it's proven. It's not the end all be all best thing ever that blows Seafoam out of the water though. He likes it, cool.

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

Look here ********.

My engine doesn't have one single issue. If you would take the time to read threads before you post you would know that. But you're obviously a typical ******* that doesn't do that.

My oil burning has been through my valley cover, via the BULLSHIT, dumbass design of the PCV system. It has since basically stopped after I rigged it up differently, but better.

Its very common to use a thicker oil to combat oil burning with wearing rings. BUT......apparently I didn't have to do that years ago as my oil was going through the PCV system. So....it proves that running 20w50 is perfectly fine, my engine is perfect. I'm sure it would have been perfect with the manufacturers recommended oil too. I did it because I thought the rings were the issue. Apparently my rings are still fine.

So, once again.....my engine doesn't have, as you say, "as many problems as his." It doesn't have a single issue. A PCV system issue has nothing to with the engine or how it was built. Its a bunch of ****** external hoses.

Now, to your dumbass comments about Sea Foam. You think it travels anywhere air flows...do ya? You're an idiot. If it did travel to all the cylinders through the brake booster line it would stall immediately, the second you dumped it into the line. The engine keeps running because the cylinders that are NOT getting any sea foam stay firing just fine and keeps it going. Thats why you have to dump a BUNCH of it in at the end to totally kill those 3-4 cylinders so it'll stall, and sometimes it still doesn't stall. If you think a liquid is going to make it all the way to the front of the intake to enter those runners thorugh the brake booster line i nthe rear of the intake, when there's massive suction right in the back of the intake where the rear cylinders are...you're just ignorant. Nuff said there.

MCCC expands...thats the only thing you understand....and that is the KEY to having it touch every single square inch of the inside of the top end components so it can sit and soak into the build up areas and break it up.

All I can tell you about the "regular" oil vs "synthetic" oil issue. When you have a 120,000+ mile stroker engine make it this far and still runs this perfectly, you come talk to me. Good luck with that though. Regular oil obvioulsy works just as good.

And when I get around to building my new engine I will take this thing apart and take pics of it to report. Thats the kind of **** I like to do, report what has worked for me. If someone wants to foolow, thats their choice.

One last thing...Sea Foam is NOT proven. However many cylinders it ends up reaching it does a half *** job of cleaning it. If the liquid just runs over the build up areas like the intake runner, head chambers, cylinder walls and the entire inside of the intake.....its not going to be able to stay there and soak in over time. It gets wet, then evaporates away. MCCC...FOAM, sits and soaks in over time.

Learn before you post, you make yourself sound like an idiot.

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oneBADDz

iTrader: (26)

A quart in a hundred miles with less than 20w50 and you don't have problems, you're comedic Runs perfectly! Everything you have been posting is comedic I love how you "estimate" that it's 3 to 4 cylinders

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

Guess you're never gonna read threads.

The oil was going through the PCV you idiot. It has stopped.

Trolls really suck on internet forums.


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oneBADDz

iTrader: (26)

Educated people REALLY get under your skin.

JIBBBY

Did someone mention Seafoaming on this thread?

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, it keeps coming up.


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oneBADDz

iTrader: (26)

I wonder who posted this in this exact same thread?

add|ct

Thanks for the info and trying to stay on topic in spite of the attacks. If it wasn't for you I'd never have known about the Mopar CCC, ok well maybe eventually.

I disagree about oil with you, but it DOES make a difference in the application that you are using it in(car/history of car/current engine condition etc.) so there is no true one size fits all when it comes to oil.

I'd be curious for research purposes alone that NOW, if you are no longer consuming oil with your PCV setup, if you would start consuming oil from going back to the manufacturer's recommended oil specification.

I mean really, it won't hurt your engine by doing that and if you have $20-$25 bucks to burn you'd be really doing everyone, including yourself, a huge favor in research alone. If anything it may start consuming oil and the amount it does will tell you how worn your engine may be...but then again with conventional oil you aren't getting a cleaning, like with a synthetic, so whatever carbon build up or deposits you may/may not have would be the difference in the wear appearing and thus the oil consumption going up again.

If you do it for one oil change you may notice that, but I'm not sure as to how the Gunk engine flush stuff has helped, to whatever extent it has, clean your engine. Anyhow...by the way I did get a check engine light the 2nd time I ran the MCCC, but it went away as I kept the RPMs at 2,000 for about 30 seconds during the restart process.

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, its too bad everyone doesn't actually read all the info to learn that my oil burning has stopped after fixing the PCV crap. ******** like "oneBADDz" just never get anything out of forums likethis.

Tell ya what, I have 1 1/2 weeks left to this 4 week experiment with this new PCV set-up. I checked my oil today and it seems like it may have burned a tiny bit, so little if any I really can't tell. So I went from burning 1 qrt every 2 weeks to pretty much burning nothing now. But, maybe a tad bit. Not enough to tell yet. Maybe in another week I'll be able to see if its even with a mark on my dipstick I made so I can tell.

I'll do that with the oil. What brand oil and weight do you want me to put in there?


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LS6427

iTrader: (2)

Remember, I started using 20w50 when I started burning oil like 4 years ago. Little did I know it had nothing to do with the engine or its internals. It was the PCV sucking massive amounts of oil from the LS6 valley cover vent port. Remember I put a clear hose on it and I saw a steady stream of oil getting sucked into the intake, it was ridiculous.

So, I can only assume my rings are totally fine and thats where all the oil was going since it has stopped using oil. Sucking crankcase gases from the passenger valve cover vent port instead of that damn valley cover port, is night and day.

I'll get a cold start video as well as after its up to operating temp "now" with this oil in there, then I will do it later with the other oil and you can compare.

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add|ct

That'll be sweet. Thanks for doing that, man. As for the brand/weight of oil? Use the same brand you have been and go back to what the manufacturer recommends as far as the spec. Was it 10w40? Since you change it within 3,000 miles anyway don't waste money on a high end filter like a Mobil1 or K&N, unless you expose the engine to racing type revving all the time, but personally I stay away from Fram these days. Get something like a Napa Gold or a similar type quality filter that has the anti-drain back system.

Personally, I'm doing a test on my car for my next oil change with 0w-30 Mobil1 'fuel economy' from the standard 5w30, with a Mobil1 EP filter to boot. My friend's fit got a noticable improvement in fuel economy, but again his car calls for 7,500 mile oil change intervals, interestingly enough though the Haynes manual says 7,500 for me.

I'm only going 3,000 miles, but if oil consumption is high early on I'll change the oil sooner. I just don't want to run into a problem of having to add oil all the time just to run synthetic, but if it goes smoothly I'll stick with the synthetic. I lose about 1 quart of my 5 every 3,000 miles between the changes I do now.

I may have a vacuum leak, though, because the car wants to hard shift in traffic with light load/barely easing onto the accelerator, but shifts smoothly under full load at WOT. I installed a short-ram intake with a K&N filter a while back. My HP jumped about 10-15 to the wheels from the stock and it didn't have this problem before the intake swap, but the problem didn't show up until about 2 months ago prior to this last oil change. I'm hoping maybe a sensor is starting to malfunction, but it could be the knock sensor going off. I'll try running super 93 next time to see if the same conditions exist, if so that would rule out knocking. I just hope its not a tranny problem creeping up on me all of a sudden.

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

Well, I don't know what the manufacturer recommends for a stock LS1/6. But LPE built the short block, and when I bought it from a friend still in its crate, he was told by them to use 10w40. Thats why I used it when I put the engine together.

So I guess I'll do that...Castrol GTX 20w50 is what I've used for years, so I'll get that brand in 10w40.
Also, I always use the Purolator filters. Might as well keep that as a constant for the test.

I'll do it in 1 1/2 weeks and then report what happens.

*****I guess if there's oil burn, but the oil pressures stay about the same, its safe to say I do have some blow-by from ring wear (which I certainly should have with 120,000+ miles).
If the oil burn stays like its been for about 3 weeks now with the new PCV set-up, the PCV will still remain the cause of my oil burn all along.

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