HellzAssassin

iTrader: (2)

Car is a 2000 Firebird Formula WS6 / M6

So I've got a couple of problems that ONLY happens in the cold weather 45degrees and below:
First things, sometimes if it's really cold, when I turn the key, sometimes the starter doesn't engage and keeps spinning for about a minute or less. It than finally catches. Once it catches, the car starts with no issues. Again, this will only happen once in a while, and if it's wicked cold outside.

Second, when started in the cold weather (45degrees and below) my car makes a grinding / metal scraping type sound. It lasts for a couple minutes, sometimes longer. If I let the car sit for a bit to warm up and it still hasn't gone away, if I rev to about 2.5k, it'll go away immediately. And yes, the grinding noise gets louder as the car is revved. Couldn't be flexplate / starter due to the change in loudness with the rev?

Thanks!

Mercier

iTrader: (15)

Batteries don't put out nearly as much current when cold as when warm. So we have two likely causes--weak battery or weak starter. I'd assess the battery situation first. If the battery is getting old, I'd try putting a charger on it for an hour or so when it is cold and then see if the (first) problem still exists. The charger should give a little boost to the battery and effectively warm it up a little bit without warming up anything else.

Even if that helps, you likely have a weak or gummed up starter and if there is any question on a 14 year old car, I'd replace it for good measure. Probably on its way out anyway.

Before you turn the key, the starter and flexplate are not touching at all. When you turn the key, the starter does two things. It quickly moves the starter gear forward to engage in the teeth on the flexplate and then it spins to turn the motor over. Sounds like #1 is not happening consistently. So it's not like it spun and didn't catch, it's like it spun and didn't engage. Hope that paints a picture for you.

After you release the key, the starter gear should retract and not contact the flexplate at all. The scraping metal sound could be the starter failing to disengage completely and scraping on the flexplate a bit. Where is the sound coming from specifically?

Revs can change a lot of things that you wouldn't suspect; just the vibrations and torqueing over of the motor can move things in or out of place. So I still think it is possible.

Mercier

iTrader: (15)

Oh and this likely should be posted in/moved to "external engine."

HellzAssassin

iTrader: (2)

Thank you for your input.
I just changed the battery about a year ago, as well as upgraded/installed a new alternator last month, so I'm quite certain the battery would not cause the issue.

I was quite certain the starter was definitely on it's way with the first listed problem, so I may go ahead and just swap that out whenever I can get the cash for a new starter and hope the problem ceases.

Though the scraping metal is really bothersome and quite embarrassing. It honestly sounds like it's coming from the top end, but I'll give it another listen closer. And if I can get a video of it soon, I'll post it in the comments as well.

That being said, how can I "move" this topic to another forum? Or should I just repost this in the external engine forum?

Mercier

iTrader: (15)

One of the moderators will come along and move it if they see fit. If you think the noise is coming from the top end or inside the motor, maybe it can stay here after all. A video with decent audio would be ideal.

HellzAssassin

iTrader: (2)

Okay nevermind, it's definitely coming from the bottom of the car. Definitely brings it to Flexplate / Starter I believe..

roninsonic

iTrader: (3)

sounds like a sticky bendix drive in the starter. When it doesn't engage, the bendix isn't shooting out, and when it's grinding, it's not fully disengaging. I'd pull the starter and squirt some graphite lock cylinder lube or motorcycle cable lube down around the shaft and see if that fixes it.

Mercier

iTrader: (15)

Roninsonic, you are probably right. We were kinda there already. My take is that after 15 or so years I'd just replace rather than lube. My $0.02. But I work on any project like I may have to drive it daily.

Thanks

HellzAssassin

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, honestly I think I'm just going to replace the starter.
Sorry I hadn't had a video up. The two days after I posted were like 55/70 degrees, so it never grinded. And yesterday I forgot. But I've definitely come to the conclusion that it's the starter. If I replace it and the problem persists, I'll take a video and put an update.
Thanks alot guys!
On that note, any recommendation for a good quality starter!?

Paul Bell

iTrader: (9)

PBell Moving services on duty!

roninsonic

iTrader: (3)

I was saying lube it solely because all of the parts store ls starters I've found have SUCKED... I'd clean and lube the factory one before I bought one of those shitbox starters.

HellzAssassin

iTrader: (2)

Oh, I definitely understand what you're saying. I just went through 4 Advance Autoshit Alternators... before I finally gave up and bought a nice Tuff Stuff 140amp Alt. Due to that experience, I'm never buying any parts from Advance/Autozone unless it's minor stuff like cables, light bulbs, etc. Thanks for the advice though! Maybe I'll lube it up as a temporary fix to last me through winter and get a new starter later.

Mercier

iTrader: (15)

What about a low-mile takeout from a later-model LS? Will those fit the F-body?