Car running odd
07-27-2012, 10:42 PM
#1
Car running odd ok well i drove my car to the track a few weeks ago and raced it and it did great for the heat we had and i drove it home and didnt notice anything wrong when driving.. let the car sit for a few days and realized i had the wrong plugs in it so i switched from a tr5 to a tr6 gapped at .45 and now the car runs like total ****.. changed the plugs to another set of tr6's gapped at .40.. same result.. pull the plugs and they look like this
tr5's
no.2 tr6
no.3 tr6
what could have changed between letting it sit and putting a set of different plugs in? i know its adding timing for some reason but why
tr5's
no.2 tr6
no.3 tr6
what could have changed between letting it sit and putting a set of different plugs in? i know its adding timing for some reason but why
07-28-2012, 12:29 PM
#2
When you say runs like crap can you explain?
Breaking up at high rpm? Low on power?
The heat on the strap between the two plugs looks different as it should. The TR6 plug looks like it has less heat on it than the TR5 would because it is a cooler plug. Timing mark is hard to tell because it wasn't shut off at the end of the run, but I can see a mark in the middle of the bend in the second picture it looks slightly blueish.
The gap out of the box on a TR5 is .050-.060 IIRC. Try taking the gap up to there and see how it runs.
This car is N/A correct? No power adders?
Breaking up at high rpm? Low on power?
The heat on the strap between the two plugs looks different as it should. The TR6 plug looks like it has less heat on it than the TR5 would because it is a cooler plug. Timing mark is hard to tell because it wasn't shut off at the end of the run, but I can see a mark in the middle of the bend in the second picture it looks slightly blueish.
The gap out of the box on a TR5 is .050-.060 IIRC. Try taking the gap up to there and see how it runs.
This car is N/A correct? No power adders?
07-28-2012, 01:35 PM
#3
When you say runs like crap can you explain?
Breaking up at high rpm? Low on power?
The heat on the strap between the two plugs looks different as it should. The TR6 plug looks like it has less heat on it than the TR5 would because it is a cooler plug. Timing mark is hard to tell because it wasn't shut off at the end of the run, but I can see a mark in the middle of the bend in the second picture it looks slightly blueish.
The gap out of the box on a TR5 is .050-.060 IIRC. Try taking the gap up to there and see how it runs.
This car is N/A correct? No power adders?
Breaking up at high rpm? Low on power?
The heat on the strap between the two plugs looks different as it should. The TR6 plug looks like it has less heat on it than the TR5 would because it is a cooler plug. Timing mark is hard to tell because it wasn't shut off at the end of the run, but I can see a mark in the middle of the bend in the second picture it looks slightly blueish.
The gap out of the box on a TR5 is .050-.060 IIRC. Try taking the gap up to there and see how it runs.
This car is N/A correct? No power adders?
07-28-2012, 02:08 PM
#4
you know how you have drove something for so long and you can tell its just running like crap? well thats how it feels.. the tr5's were gapped at .042-.043 and the tr6's at .040.. pulled the plug today and i can see where it is arcing all the way to the base of the plug and not toward the tip or even ground strap of the plug and yes n/a..... car was tuned for the tr5's and i figured it would not make this much difference switching to a tr6 unless something else is wrong. ANY help to figure it out would help me greatly as i just got the motor together about 2 months ago and i cant even drive it because of this
Try opening the gap up to .050 on the TR6's.
How far are you tightening them down? Do all of them look like they are arcing?
If the spark is arcing I would think it wouldn't be the plug change that did this, but I could be wrong.
07-28-2012, 02:16 PM
#5
If it's N/A and stock compression the TR55's are fine. At or above 11:1 you will want to use a TR6.
Try opening the gap up to .050 on the TR6's.
How far are you tightening them down? Do all of them look like they are arcing?
If the spark is arcing I would think it wouldn't be the plug change that did this, but I could be wrong.
Try opening the gap up to .050 on the TR6's.
How far are you tightening them down? Do all of them look like they are arcing?
If the spark is arcing I would think it wouldn't be the plug change that did this, but I could be wrong.
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07-29-2012, 03:45 PM
#8
If I put photos of my TR5 vs. TR6 up, they would look exactly the same. Gapped at .040". I don't think the gap has anything to do with it.
I believe what we are seeing is the result of the heat in the ground strap.
The coldness of a plug has to do with the length of the ceramic insulator down in the plug. In the hotter plug, the ceramic joins with the shell further down. Colder plug, further up towords the tip. Compare the two and see. It may take a magnifier.
I don't have an explanation on the heat in the ground strap. I'll go do some reading on "plug reading".
Why not put the 5's back in? I did, but am waiting on a new set of wires. I'll know if mine goes back to happy on Wed.
It didn't seem happy to me with the 6's in there, but I had made other changes at the same time, so back to where I was. I also discovered a bad wire at the same time.
It just might be that the diff from a 5 to a 6 in the NGK is a large difference. Another brand of plug may be different. I have just always liked the NGK. I also have a new combo and wasn't willing to buy the "fancy" plugs until I have things dialed in.
Ron
I believe what we are seeing is the result of the heat in the ground strap.
The coldness of a plug has to do with the length of the ceramic insulator down in the plug. In the hotter plug, the ceramic joins with the shell further down. Colder plug, further up towords the tip. Compare the two and see. It may take a magnifier.
I don't have an explanation on the heat in the ground strap. I'll go do some reading on "plug reading".
Why not put the 5's back in? I did, but am waiting on a new set of wires. I'll know if mine goes back to happy on Wed.
It didn't seem happy to me with the 6's in there, but I had made other changes at the same time, so back to where I was. I also discovered a bad wire at the same time.
It just might be that the diff from a 5 to a 6 in the NGK is a large difference. Another brand of plug may be different. I have just always liked the NGK. I also have a new combo and wasn't willing to buy the "fancy" plugs until I have things dialed in.
Ron
07-29-2012, 04:31 PM
#9
If I put photos of my TR5 vs. TR6 up, they would look exactly the same. Gapped at .040". I don't think the gap has anything to do with it.
I believe what we are seeing is the result of the heat in the ground strap.
The coldness of a plug has to do with the length of the ceramic insulator down in the plug. In the hotter plug, the ceramic joins with the shell further down. Colder plug, further up towords the tip. Compare the two and see. It may take a magnifier.
I don't have an explanation on the heat in the ground strap. I'll go do some reading on "plug reading".
Why not put the 5's back in? I did, but am waiting on a new set of wires. I'll know if mine goes back to happy on Wed.
It didn't seem happy to me with the 6's in there, but I had made other changes at the same time, so back to where I was. I also discovered a bad wire at the same time.
It just might be that the diff from a 5 to a 6 in the NGK is a large difference. Another brand of plug may be different. I have just always liked the NGK. I also have a new combo and wasn't willing to buy the "fancy" plugs until I have things dialed in.
Ron
I believe what we are seeing is the result of the heat in the ground strap.
The coldness of a plug has to do with the length of the ceramic insulator down in the plug. In the hotter plug, the ceramic joins with the shell further down. Colder plug, further up towords the tip. Compare the two and see. It may take a magnifier.
I don't have an explanation on the heat in the ground strap. I'll go do some reading on "plug reading".
Why not put the 5's back in? I did, but am waiting on a new set of wires. I'll know if mine goes back to happy on Wed.
It didn't seem happy to me with the 6's in there, but I had made other changes at the same time, so back to where I was. I also discovered a bad wire at the same time.
It just might be that the diff from a 5 to a 6 in the NGK is a large difference. Another brand of plug may be different. I have just always liked the NGK. I also have a new combo and wasn't willing to buy the "fancy" plugs until I have things dialed in.
Ron
07-30-2012, 01:28 AM
#10
http://www.angelfire.com/fl4/pontiac...Readplugs.html
So to get the proper read on the plug, need to cut it clean at the end of a hard pull.
i suspect our engines run clean enough that may not be necessary. Your TR5 have a lot more color on the gnd strap. According to what I posted, they are just right for heat range. I'm looking at the black line on the strap.
Looking at your tR6, way less miles on them, and the black line is right out at the tip. Right? I'm not looking at where the coating has burned off near the base of the electrode. Zink plating or whatever it is.
it could be the TR6 are just too cold for normal driving. Might be great at full throttle though.
Trying to learn as well.
So to get the proper read on the plug, need to cut it clean at the end of a hard pull.
i suspect our engines run clean enough that may not be necessary. Your TR5 have a lot more color on the gnd strap. According to what I posted, they are just right for heat range. I'm looking at the black line on the strap.
Looking at your tR6, way less miles on them, and the black line is right out at the tip. Right? I'm not looking at where the coating has burned off near the base of the electrode. Zink plating or whatever it is.
it could be the TR6 are just too cold for normal driving. Might be great at full throttle though.
Trying to learn as well.
09-03-2012, 11:04 PM
#18
Check to make sure you do not have water in your tank from condensation. Check to make sure your fuel source has a low water concentration - wherever you are getting your fuel. Run a can of seafoam in the motor to remove any moisture and also run some in the crankcase.
I have a sneaky feeling it is water based. Just my .02
I have a sneaky feeling it is water based. Just my .02
09-03-2012, 11:32 PM
#19
Check to make sure you do not have water in your tank from condensation. Check to make sure your fuel source has a low water concentration - wherever you are getting your fuel. Run a can of seafoam in the motor to remove any moisture and also run some in the crankcase.
I have a sneaky feeling it is water based. Just my .02
I have a sneaky feeling it is water based. Just my .02
09-04-2012, 12:45 AM
#20
No problem 
Also take a look at the location of the injectors and make sure there is not water puddling, also check the injector area for ways that moisture could enter. Some other ideas to help.
Also take a look at the location of the injectors and make sure there is not water puddling, also check the injector area for ways that moisture could enter. Some other ideas to help.