Tacoma (2wd) Ls1/M6 swap. Need usable low RPM power
11-21-2015, 11:11 PM
#1
Tacoma (2wd) Ls1/M6 swap. Need usable low RPM power As the title states I have an LS swapped 98 2wd little Tacoma with an M6.
Recently the trans failed so I am am rebuilding and upgrading it currently and had to pull the motor as well while doing so, so not the engine is on a stand waiting for disassembly.
I am really on the fence about running some boost ( I just looove the torque!) however I think if I could lay down some good mid 400ish HP with good torque numbers starting low down while towing (3000#+) being something that needs to happen at least once a month ( I race off-road motorcycles in the National hare and hound Series)
So I currently have a 2001 LS1 motor with the 241 heads and if I had to guess its probably got about 150K miles at this point?
Want to do the pistons and rings after a diamond Hone/deglazing the cylinders, and put on some good heads!
I think I am going with the LS6 head stage 1 TSP port job and a good cam to be decided after talking to somebody that knows a hell a lot about them than I do!
Any recommendations on pistons, rings, maybe bearings and or rod upgrades? Types of cams....
I want to spend about $3500 total, yet all the labor is free minus some of the machining that I cannot do for obvious reasons! I really want boost but not sure its gonna happen in this build, but I do tend to get motivated when I read other builds!
The worst part about this whole thing is that My little Tacoma used to have a Toyota 2RZ which is a 2.4 cylinder 4 banger that made over 450 rwhp!!!
And now I drive an LS swapped truck at about 320ish (HP total guess)but really needs to have some more pep in its step!
Background 98 Toyota Tacoma exrta cab 2wd (Big brake kit in front and dual sway bars with fully custom rear traction bars and airbags.
I an running 3.90 rear diff and have 255/45-19 tires, T56 transmission and the truck weighs about 3000 lbs with motor no driver (estimate based on weight with 4 cyl and some quick Rain-Man style calculations)
Weight bias, believe it or not) feels much better now with the V8 than it did with the 4 cylinder (however still needs to be confirmed with corner scales), it feels substantially more stable and predictable!
Any input is greatly appreciated
Recently the trans failed so I am am rebuilding and upgrading it currently and had to pull the motor as well while doing so, so not the engine is on a stand waiting for disassembly.
I am really on the fence about running some boost ( I just looove the torque!) however I think if I could lay down some good mid 400ish HP with good torque numbers starting low down while towing (3000#+) being something that needs to happen at least once a month ( I race off-road motorcycles in the National hare and hound Series)
So I currently have a 2001 LS1 motor with the 241 heads and if I had to guess its probably got about 150K miles at this point?
Want to do the pistons and rings after a diamond Hone/deglazing the cylinders, and put on some good heads!
I think I am going with the LS6 head stage 1 TSP port job and a good cam to be decided after talking to somebody that knows a hell a lot about them than I do!
Any recommendations on pistons, rings, maybe bearings and or rod upgrades? Types of cams....
I want to spend about $3500 total, yet all the labor is free minus some of the machining that I cannot do for obvious reasons! I really want boost but not sure its gonna happen in this build, but I do tend to get motivated when I read other builds!
The worst part about this whole thing is that My little Tacoma used to have a Toyota 2RZ which is a 2.4 cylinder 4 banger that made over 450 rwhp!!!
And now I drive an LS swapped truck at about 320ish (HP total guess)but really needs to have some more pep in its step!
Background 98 Toyota Tacoma exrta cab 2wd (Big brake kit in front and dual sway bars with fully custom rear traction bars and airbags.
I an running 3.90 rear diff and have 255/45-19 tires, T56 transmission and the truck weighs about 3000 lbs with motor no driver (estimate based on weight with 4 cyl and some quick Rain-Man style calculations)
Weight bias, believe it or not) feels much better now with the V8 than it did with the 4 cylinder (however still needs to be confirmed with corner scales), it feels substantially more stable and predictable!
Any input is greatly appreciated
11-22-2015, 08:10 AM
#2
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For $3,500 you won't be able to get your way into a supercharged set-up unless you find a deal on something used or cobble something together. For low-end torque that you can use towing and around town, a supercharger is where its at.
You should be able to make 400hp at the rear wheels by doing headwork, a cam, and bolt-ons (header, full exhaust, intake, ported throttle body, etc) on the 5.7. You could spend close to $3,500 all said and done going that route. The best bang for your buck modification on an ls1 is the cam. You may need to upgrade springs and retainers to run the size cam you want.
For your goals, there isn't much of a reason to upgrade rods or pistons. Any bump in compression ratio you may want you can get through the heads. If you really want to spend the money there are a bunch of stroker kits for the ls1 - do your research and buy good components if you buy a stroker kit. At that point, be prepared to have a machine shop over bore your cylinders and journals. You could easily spend your budget on the bottom end of the motor and maybe have enough room for a cam.
The 2.4l turbo might have made more peak power but you probably have more power under the curve with the factory ls1 setup. You sure as **** are in a better position for towing. If you want to turbocharge the ls1, put on a set of 317 heads with PAC1218 springs and use a Tick turbo stage 1 cam to take care of the low end torque. Alot of guys are making custom turbo headers out of Chevy 5.3l truck headers that have been turned around. The 317 heads have a bigger combustion chamber to reduce compression ratio to a safer area. Aftermarket beehive springs like the PAC's reduce valve float under boost and allow you to run a low lift cam like the Tick stage 1.
I'm selling a pair of 317's with PAC1218's installed and 300 miles on them for - do some research and if you're interested PM me. Also, Tick elite series cams, which includes all the turbo cams, are 10% off right now - grab the code from his post.
You should be able to make 400hp at the rear wheels by doing headwork, a cam, and bolt-ons (header, full exhaust, intake, ported throttle body, etc) on the 5.7. You could spend close to $3,500 all said and done going that route. The best bang for your buck modification on an ls1 is the cam. You may need to upgrade springs and retainers to run the size cam you want.
For your goals, there isn't much of a reason to upgrade rods or pistons. Any bump in compression ratio you may want you can get through the heads. If you really want to spend the money there are a bunch of stroker kits for the ls1 - do your research and buy good components if you buy a stroker kit. At that point, be prepared to have a machine shop over bore your cylinders and journals. You could easily spend your budget on the bottom end of the motor and maybe have enough room for a cam.
The 2.4l turbo might have made more peak power but you probably have more power under the curve with the factory ls1 setup. You sure as **** are in a better position for towing. If you want to turbocharge the ls1, put on a set of 317 heads with PAC1218 springs and use a Tick turbo stage 1 cam to take care of the low end torque. Alot of guys are making custom turbo headers out of Chevy 5.3l truck headers that have been turned around. The 317 heads have a bigger combustion chamber to reduce compression ratio to a safer area. Aftermarket beehive springs like the PAC's reduce valve float under boost and allow you to run a low lift cam like the Tick stage 1.
I'm selling a pair of 317's with PAC1218's installed and 300 miles on them for - do some research and if you're interested PM me. Also, Tick elite series cams, which includes all the turbo cams, are 10% off right now - grab the code from his post.
11-22-2015, 08:46 AM
#3
So the LS1 is currently out of the truck. Why not just have a known good LS head porter port the heads you have and mill them for some compression. If TSP is your pick send them the 241s. Your budget is small and your goal maybe a little unreasonable for a towing application. 400rwhp is doable heads and cam, BUT the cam used for that might not be best for towing, the 3.90/28" tire is also similar to an f-body with 3.73s(26.5 tall tires). Most 400rwhp setups in an f-body are going to drive better with 4.10s.
Forget the random HP goal and this whole thing becomes easier.
Your minor "rebuild" is going to cost more than you think. Once you crack the rod caps loose you should have them resized, and a simple deglazing is halfassed when looking at new pistons.
If you don't have real reason to tear apart the shortblock I would leave that part alone, cost a lot to do right, not typically a big mileage wear problem with modern engines. It isn't the 70s or 80s when bore wear was severe.
If you want to look at boost I would not touch the engine other than maybe springs because the budget is going to be tight if doing a turbo, actually it will be tight for a heads/cam build too.
Forget the random HP goal and this whole thing becomes easier.
Your minor "rebuild" is going to cost more than you think. Once you crack the rod caps loose you should have them resized, and a simple deglazing is halfassed when looking at new pistons.
If you don't have real reason to tear apart the shortblock I would leave that part alone, cost a lot to do right, not typically a big mileage wear problem with modern engines. It isn't the 70s or 80s when bore wear was severe.
If you want to look at boost I would not touch the engine other than maybe springs because the budget is going to be tight if doing a turbo, actually it will be tight for a heads/cam build too.
11-22-2015, 11:43 AM
#4
For $3,500 you won't be able to get your way into a supercharged set-up unless you find a deal on something used or cobble something together. For low-end torque that you can use towing and around town, a supercharger is where its at.
You should be able to make 400hp at the rear wheels by doing headwork, a cam, and bolt-ons (header, full exhaust, intake, ported throttle body, etc) on the 5.7. You could spend close to $3,500 all said and done going that route. The best bang for your buck modification on an ls1 is the cam. You may need to upgrade springs and retainers to run the size cam you want.
For your goals, there isn't much of a reason to upgrade rods or pistons. Any bump in compression ratio you may want you can get through the heads. If you really want to spend the money there are a bunch of stroker kits for the ls1 - do your research and buy good components if you buy a stroker kit. At that point, be prepared to have a machine shop over bore your cylinders and journals. You could easily spend your budget on the bottom end of the motor and maybe have enough room for a cam.
The 2.4l turbo might have made more peak power but you probably have more power under the curve with the factory ls1 setup. You sure as **** are in a better position for towing. If you want to turbocharge the ls1, put on a set of 317 heads with PAC1218 springs and use a Tick turbo stage 1 cam to take care of the low end torque. Alot of guys are making custom turbo headers out of Chevy 5.3l truck headers that have been turned around. The 317 heads have a bigger combustion chamber to reduce compression ratio to a safer area. Aftermarket beehive springs like the PAC's reduce valve float under boost and allow you to run a low lift cam like the Tick stage 1.
I'm selling a pair of 317's with PAC1218's installed and 300 miles on them for - do some research and if you're interested PM me. Also, Tick elite series cams, which includes all the turbo cams, are 10% off right now - grab the code from his post.
You should be able to make 400hp at the rear wheels by doing headwork, a cam, and bolt-ons (header, full exhaust, intake, ported throttle body, etc) on the 5.7. You could spend close to $3,500 all said and done going that route. The best bang for your buck modification on an ls1 is the cam. You may need to upgrade springs and retainers to run the size cam you want.
For your goals, there isn't much of a reason to upgrade rods or pistons. Any bump in compression ratio you may want you can get through the heads. If you really want to spend the money there are a bunch of stroker kits for the ls1 - do your research and buy good components if you buy a stroker kit. At that point, be prepared to have a machine shop over bore your cylinders and journals. You could easily spend your budget on the bottom end of the motor and maybe have enough room for a cam.
The 2.4l turbo might have made more peak power but you probably have more power under the curve with the factory ls1 setup. You sure as **** are in a better position for towing. If you want to turbocharge the ls1, put on a set of 317 heads with PAC1218 springs and use a Tick turbo stage 1 cam to take care of the low end torque. Alot of guys are making custom turbo headers out of Chevy 5.3l truck headers that have been turned around. The 317 heads have a bigger combustion chamber to reduce compression ratio to a safer area. Aftermarket beehive springs like the PAC's reduce valve float under boost and allow you to run a low lift cam like the Tick stage 1.
I'm selling a pair of 317's with PAC1218's installed and 300 miles on them for - do some research and if you're interested PM me. Also, Tick elite series cams, which includes all the turbo cams, are 10% off right now - grab the code from his post.
I want boost but not sure I can afford to go that route based on my budget at this point.
The only reason for tearing down the bottom end is to clean it up and make sure I have a good ring seal by checking piston skirt wear, and cylinder walls. Seems like a good idea to at least hone and re-ring it right? Just want to make sure the bottom end is making a good seal in order to assure that its going to be an efficient setup.
I am hoping to get a set of 243 heads (I will blend the bowls and do some port cleaning but nothing drastic) get a larger cam and then I can change my tune with my HP Tuner to make it all work together. Or thats the plan anyway.
So the LS1 is currently out of the truck. Why not just have a known good LS head porter port the heads you have and mill them for some compression. If TSP is your pick send them the 241s. Your budget is small and your goal maybe a little unreasonable for a towing application. 400rwhp is doable heads and cam, BUT the cam used for that might not be best for towing, the 3.90/28" tire is also similar to an f-body with 3.73s(26.5 tall tires). Most 400rwhp setups in an f-body are going to drive better with 4.10s.
Forget the random HP goal and this whole thing becomes easier.
Your minor "rebuild" is going to cost more than you think. Once you crack the rod caps loose you should have them resized, and a simple deglazing is halfassed when looking at new pistons.
If you don't have real reason to tear apart the shortblock I would leave that part alone, cost a lot to do right, not typically a big mileage wear problem with modern engines. It isn't the 70s or 80s when bore wear was severe.
If you want to look at boost I would not touch the engine other than maybe springs because the budget is going to be tight if doing a turbo, actually it will be tight for a heads/cam build too.
Forget the random HP goal and this whole thing becomes easier.
Your minor "rebuild" is going to cost more than you think. Once you crack the rod caps loose you should have them resized, and a simple deglazing is halfassed when looking at new pistons.
If you don't have real reason to tear apart the shortblock I would leave that part alone, cost a lot to do right, not typically a big mileage wear problem with modern engines. It isn't the 70s or 80s when bore wear was severe.
If you want to look at boost I would not touch the engine other than maybe springs because the budget is going to be tight if doing a turbo, actually it will be tight for a heads/cam build too.
So after pulling the rods they need resizing? I was hoping to just possibly deglaze the cylinders and getting some rings simply for a better seal but thats not gonna be that easy? I figure the motor has close to 150K on it and could use a low end reseal.
I have read about guys tearing the bottom end apart just to re-gap the rings for piston applications without issue and didnt see them resizing their rods?
Yeah I am very aware of the snowball effect when opening motors but hoping that this one would need minimal work (but its simply a guess).
11-22-2015, 12:02 PM
#5
So the plan for now is:
243 heads (true LS6 heads with hollow/sodium valves) I will blend the bowls and do some minor porting or maybe just send them out to TSP for a stage1 (CNC but uses the slightly smaller/lighter LS6 valves)
Cam, springs, Ti retainers.....(not sure exactly what to get there)
Port my LS6 intake and port match my headers to the head.
I have 1-5/8 primaries (kinda small) with dual 3" exhaust tapered to 2.5 dual after mufflers
And a new Tune.
So its a bad idea to just hone and re-ring the bottom end??
Trying not to do pistons if I dont have to...
243 heads (true LS6 heads with hollow/sodium valves) I will blend the bowls and do some minor porting or maybe just send them out to TSP for a stage1 (CNC but uses the slightly smaller/lighter LS6 valves)
Cam, springs, Ti retainers.....(not sure exactly what to get there)
Port my LS6 intake and port match my headers to the head.
I have 1-5/8 primaries (kinda small) with dual 3" exhaust tapered to 2.5 dual after mufflers
And a new Tune.
So its a bad idea to just hone and re-ring the bottom end??
Trying not to do pistons if I dont have to...
11-22-2015, 12:48 PM
#6
Some guys get away with pulling the rods and putting it back together BUT I think every case I have seen where guys MEASURED them they found some distortion.
I don't see why you would bother with hollow valves or titanium retainers when it is a 1 5/8" primary towing first application, those are things that help with aggressive cam at high rpm. Yes LS6 hollow valves and titanium retainers are great for most LS1 builds but given your use I don't see much benefit, and don't see the "stock size valve" thing as a compromise, some companies make great power with stock valves.
The engine probably needs no work and the act of opening it to inspect is more likely to cause work to be needed than it is to find any problems.
If you can fabricate you might be able to do a cheap turbo build so long as you stay away from the inside of the motor other than springs. The truck manifolds are cheap and good to 1000rwhp so no "turbo headers" needed and you could sell the headers you have. If you came by true hollow valve LS6 heads cheap you might be able to flip them for a profit.
I don't see why you would bother with hollow valves or titanium retainers when it is a 1 5/8" primary towing first application, those are things that help with aggressive cam at high rpm. Yes LS6 hollow valves and titanium retainers are great for most LS1 builds but given your use I don't see much benefit, and don't see the "stock size valve" thing as a compromise, some companies make great power with stock valves.
The engine probably needs no work and the act of opening it to inspect is more likely to cause work to be needed than it is to find any problems.
If you can fabricate you might be able to do a cheap turbo build so long as you stay away from the inside of the motor other than springs. The truck manifolds are cheap and good to 1000rwhp so no "turbo headers" needed and you could sell the headers you have. If you came by true hollow valve LS6 heads cheap you might be able to flip them for a profit.