Need Help with Really odd Tapping/Ticking
12-10-2004, 05:40 PM
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Launching!
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Need Help with Really odd Tapping/Ticking Swapped my cam (B1,) springs (Patriot Golds,) Oil pump (SLP ported LS6 unit,) pushrods, retainers, and intake manifold about 2 weeks ago and I had this really odd problem develop that I need help with.
Car starts just fine.
Idles cold just fine.
Let the car's temperature rise to normal operating temperature and everything is fine.
Drive the car about 5 minutes (or about 3-5 miles) down the road (after it has warmed up) and this terrible tapping and ticking develops. It sounds as if someone has drilled a 1/4" hole in one of my header pipes, it is very loud and even old ladies in surrounding cars start to stare at me as if my engine is about to explode. The tapping definately increases and gets louder with engine rpm and is constant for about 3-5 minutes or so and then it just fades away as if nothing ever happened.
The oil pressure does not fluctuate oddly at all, even when it's ticking it ranges between 40-60+ psi, with no odd bounces or anything.
The car seems to perform just fine... not about to hammer the gas when the tapping is bad, but other than that it doesn't drop idle, and the rpms stay constant with no surging or other problems.
Once this ticking and tapping fades away, it has never come back. It only does it to me at just about the exact same spots in the road on the way into work in the morning and again in it's spot on the way home, never any other time.
If I happen to leave work and (detour) jump right on to one of our long california style metered freeway on ramps. (For those of you that don't know: where you basically just idle along in neutral through a 1/2 hour long traffic signal 1 car at a time before getting to opportunity to join the rest of the freeway traffic jam) the car will not start to act up.
What I have done:
Changed and checked the oil and filter. No particles, metal shavings, spray paint looking crap... oil was fine.
Engine Flush. Car didn't seem to act up the next morning, but started again on the way home again.
Ran a bottle of CD-2 oil detergent through and the car seemed to be quiet 1 entire day, but acted up again the day after.
Initially I thought that there might have been some sort of grime or crap in the oil and it wasn't flowing properly and might have been starving a lifter or something, but this doesn't seem to be the case.
My thoughts:
I doubt that it is the oil pump or o-ring issue here, that oil pressure acts perfectly at all times. This would also be a tell tale spun bearing symptom that I think can be ruled out. Also oil is clean.
I doubt that it is a spring or that I have dropped a spring, typically I would expect the car's performance to "fall on it's face" if this were to happen, and it would do it at all times. Car performs good, and this goes away after 3-5 minutes and doesn't return until the car gets cold again.
Odd exhaust leak? Also not likely as it is not there at all times.
Lifter? Well, the car does have about 72k miles on them... Maybe? Rocker? Haven't had the valve covers off again yet.
Has anyone else had similar symptoms?
What are your thoughts?
Car starts just fine.
Idles cold just fine.
Let the car's temperature rise to normal operating temperature and everything is fine.
Drive the car about 5 minutes (or about 3-5 miles) down the road (after it has warmed up) and this terrible tapping and ticking develops. It sounds as if someone has drilled a 1/4" hole in one of my header pipes, it is very loud and even old ladies in surrounding cars start to stare at me as if my engine is about to explode. The tapping definately increases and gets louder with engine rpm and is constant for about 3-5 minutes or so and then it just fades away as if nothing ever happened.
The oil pressure does not fluctuate oddly at all, even when it's ticking it ranges between 40-60+ psi, with no odd bounces or anything.
The car seems to perform just fine... not about to hammer the gas when the tapping is bad, but other than that it doesn't drop idle, and the rpms stay constant with no surging or other problems.
Once this ticking and tapping fades away, it has never come back. It only does it to me at just about the exact same spots in the road on the way into work in the morning and again in it's spot on the way home, never any other time.
If I happen to leave work and (detour) jump right on to one of our long california style metered freeway on ramps. (For those of you that don't know: where you basically just idle along in neutral through a 1/2 hour long traffic signal 1 car at a time before getting to opportunity to join the rest of the freeway traffic jam) the car will not start to act up.
What I have done:
Changed and checked the oil and filter. No particles, metal shavings, spray paint looking crap... oil was fine.
Engine Flush. Car didn't seem to act up the next morning, but started again on the way home again.
Ran a bottle of CD-2 oil detergent through and the car seemed to be quiet 1 entire day, but acted up again the day after.
Initially I thought that there might have been some sort of grime or crap in the oil and it wasn't flowing properly and might have been starving a lifter or something, but this doesn't seem to be the case.
My thoughts:
I doubt that it is the oil pump or o-ring issue here, that oil pressure acts perfectly at all times. This would also be a tell tale spun bearing symptom that I think can be ruled out. Also oil is clean.
I doubt that it is a spring or that I have dropped a spring, typically I would expect the car's performance to "fall on it's face" if this were to happen, and it would do it at all times. Car performs good, and this goes away after 3-5 minutes and doesn't return until the car gets cold again.
Odd exhaust leak? Also not likely as it is not there at all times.
Lifter? Well, the car does have about 72k miles on them... Maybe? Rocker? Haven't had the valve covers off again yet.
Has anyone else had similar symptoms?
What are your thoughts?
12-11-2004, 08:28 AM
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Launching!
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BlackHawk,
I had a ticking (very loud) that I could not diagnose for the longest time. I replaced lifters, etc. and still it didn't go away. I thought it was a bad rod bearing. A old mechanic came over and said it was definitely in the top end.
He told me to diagnose it like this:
1. Take off the valve cover.
2. Run the engine (yea it gets a little messy).
3. Take a 2'-2 1/2' piece of 1x1 wood and use it as a stethoscope at the top of the cylinder head above the rocker arm and bottom of the head below each valve. Can you isolate the noise?
4. While the engine is running, use the wood or the butt-end of a hammer to push down on each rocker where the pushrod is. Does the sound change? If so, you have a lash or lifter problem.
I was able to isolate the noise to one single exhaust valve and upon further inspection found that the cam lobe for that valve had a big gouge in it. I doubt this is your problem but hopefully you can pinpoint the culprit.
I had a ticking (very loud) that I could not diagnose for the longest time. I replaced lifters, etc. and still it didn't go away. I thought it was a bad rod bearing. A old mechanic came over and said it was definitely in the top end.
He told me to diagnose it like this:
1. Take off the valve cover.
2. Run the engine (yea it gets a little messy).
3. Take a 2'-2 1/2' piece of 1x1 wood and use it as a stethoscope at the top of the cylinder head above the rocker arm and bottom of the head below each valve. Can you isolate the noise?
4. While the engine is running, use the wood or the butt-end of a hammer to push down on each rocker where the pushrod is. Does the sound change? If so, you have a lash or lifter problem.
I was able to isolate the noise to one single exhaust valve and upon further inspection found that the cam lobe for that valve had a big gouge in it. I doubt this is your problem but hopefully you can pinpoint the culprit.
12-11-2004, 11:03 AM
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Sounds to me like that start of an exhaust leak. You are only hearing it when the enigine is cold. After it warms up the metal expands and causes the flanges to seal. What headers are you running?
12-11-2004, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by WS6snake-eater
Sounds to me like that start of an exhaust leak. You are only hearing it when the enigine is cold. After it warms up the metal expands and causes the flanges to seal. What headers are you running?
12-12-2004, 12:17 AM
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Yeah, I really doubt that it is going to be an exhaust leak. Though it really sounds similar, but it is completely quiet when the car is cold and even for the first few minutes after it has warmed up. I can see what WS6snake-eater is getting at, but the header pipes are going to heat up to full temperature faster than just about anything in there, and this problem acts up typically about 10-15 minutes after the car has been started. Those pipes ought to have been hot for a while.
The car acts up well after the temperature gauge has already reached full operating temperature. Of course this means that the coolant has reached it's normal range, but it doesn't necessarily mean that all of the engine oil has. This is why I had initially focused on this being an oil issue... And it may still be in a roundabout way.
I am hoping to be able to work out some time for us to be able to get those valve covers pulled back off early next week. We really need to see what's going on in there. The problem with being able to isolate this noise is that it is so damn intermitent. It will act up for 5 minutes, maybe twice a day and that's it, noise goes away. Maybe the old mechanic's stethescope like Byter had mentioned might reveal something that isn't audible to the naked ear.
I am really concerned that it might be the end of the road for a lifter or two right now. Any one ever had one fail or start to fail on them? What where the symptoms?
The car acts up well after the temperature gauge has already reached full operating temperature. Of course this means that the coolant has reached it's normal range, but it doesn't necessarily mean that all of the engine oil has. This is why I had initially focused on this being an oil issue... And it may still be in a roundabout way.
I am hoping to be able to work out some time for us to be able to get those valve covers pulled back off early next week. We really need to see what's going on in there. The problem with being able to isolate this noise is that it is so damn intermitent. It will act up for 5 minutes, maybe twice a day and that's it, noise goes away. Maybe the old mechanic's stethescope like Byter had mentioned might reveal something that isn't audible to the naked ear.
I am really concerned that it might be the end of the road for a lifter or two right now. Any one ever had one fail or start to fail on them? What where the symptoms?
12-12-2004, 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by WS6snake-eater
Sounds to me like that start of an exhaust leak. You are only hearing it when the enigine is cold. After it warms up the metal expands and causes the flanges to seal. What headers are you running?