Head option's.
08-08-2006, 12:48 PM
#1
Head option's. During the past few months we have had more head choices available then ever. I have read a ton of thread and decited to give everyone my oponion of head choices. My oponion is based of my personal experience with my cars and customer's cars we have worked on at the shop. This might get long so if you don't have time then stop reading now.
DartvsETPvsAFRvsTFSvsTSPvsTEAvsPP.
Options galore....
Lets start with the stock cubic inch LS1 guys. Every head above can be purchased and work very well with a stock motor.
I am going to seperate the heads by price for now.
So we have Texas Speed and Performance (TSP), Patroit Performance(PP), Dart, Total Engine Airflow (TEA) in this groupe. Each company having a very nice high quality head for under 1500 dollars assembled.
Patroit and TSP being the cheepest with Dart and TEA being a couple hundred dollars more.
What you get.
Patroit has many options, but the one I am going to use for the 346 cubic inch guys is their ported LS6 head. The LS6 head starts a superior casting vs the LS1 head and therefore can give better results. You get a fully CnC ported head, with a great spring kit including locks, titanium retainers, dual gold valve springs, machined bases, Viton rubber seals and on top of that all you get a 5 angle valve job for only 1000 dollars.
If you want Ferrea valves for intake and exhaust it's only 200 dollars extra.
TSP has a similar option as the Patroit heads. Many people sware by these heads and they seem like a great option as well. You get the same 243 LS6 castings fully CnC ported. These heads are priced at 900 dollars, and if you would like TSP offer's their custom valve job for an extra 100 bucks.
1 more option is TSP has their own spring kit that is nearly identical as the patroit spring kit, it will run a extra 250.
This option should be great for someone wanting to pick up some impressive HP on a budget.
TEA is next on the list with a very good ported GM casting head.
In the budget war they offer a head priced in line with TSP and Patroit. Its their budget LS1 head. They use a 241 casting and do their magic to that. It comes setup similar with stock valves and I believe comp 918 springs. Price is right at 900 dollars plus core. You can upgrade to their dual spring kit for and extra 50 dollars.
TEA part 2. They can do the same thing as above but use a LS6 head. This package normally comes with TEA's dual spring kit which is again almost the exact same thing as the Patroit, and TSP kits. TEA does their full CnC program on this head with a very good valve job and includes Manley intake valves. All priced for around 1100 dollars plus core. .
Dart is the only "budget" LSX aftermarket head on the market.
Darts head looks very similar to a stock LS6 head but they have improved it everywhere. It is not CnC ported but as cast works very well.
Dart has their own spring kit using a behive spring rated to 625 lift.
The awsome thing about the dart head is that you can buy it for now on a budget and if you ever run into some extra cash and wish to go faster you can always have someone port the dart head for some extra power. With the other budget heads your more or less out of room to grow heads wise.
The other advantage with the dart head is that it starts as a 62cc head. Most of us H/C guys want 11:1 compression and with a 62cc head and stock head gasket you right in that compression range. You get aftermarket valves with the heads and to my knowledge P/V clearence is almost exactly the same as a stock LS6 head which mean you can run the bigger cams, have 11:1 compression and still not have to flycut. A great benifit.
This is a breakdown of the budget heads on my list so now if these heads are in your price range it is time to start doing some real thinking.
I have my personial favorites but I am not trying to suggest 1 head over the other. I have used at least 1 set of heads from each company, and at least 2 sets from each company except TSP, which hopefully will change soon.
Customer service is top notch with TSP/TEA and Patroit. Dart has dealers everywhere which included Summitt/Jegs and quite a few other companies who have great customer service.
So give the guys a call and let them sell you their product.
Patriot Performance
888-462-8276
Texas Speed and Performance
(806) 866-0734
Total Engine Airflow
(330) 784-5210
Now it the Big boys turn.
Here we have Air flow research (AFR), ET Performance (ETP), TSP(using Edelbrock castings) Trick Flow (TFS),
There are a few I will leave out due to lack of knowledge, or the fact I don't feel they compete with this groupe. All Pro and Edelbrock are those 2, and PP has a head that will be out shortly as well.
AFR, what can we say about the company that started it all. They were the first the start the aftermarket casting LSx heads and have done a awsome job making power since day 1. AFR offer's a 205 and 225 cc head for the stock cubic inch guys based off a 3.9 bore. Quality, fit and finish is very noticeable as soon as you open the box. AFR starts life almost similar to a stock LS1 head and is 66cc's out of the box. This means you can get stock compression or with some milling up the compression. A thicker deck is a benifit especially for the FI guys and the fact that you can get a very well flowing head that stays very small in the port for great velocity is another huge plus.
The 225 is commonly used for those with large cams trying to get those extra few pony's. They flow better then the 205's but normally only carry a advantage in a car that see's the strip often. We could discuss AFR all day and what the brought to the LS1 market, but we need to move on.
TSP's, Terminator head. TSP has taken a Edelbrock head and made it their own. They buy a aftermarket casting and do this port work on it to make a very nice product. This head similar to the dart head starts off as 62cc's which is nice for those wanting more compression without giving up P/V clearence. They are also a small runner at only 200cc's and flow as well as many LS6 ported heads which gives them a big benifit over stock ported castings. 2.02/1.57 valves come stock and I am sure upgrades can be made for the bigger cubic inch guys if requested. A thicker comes stock and this gives a huge advantage for those boosted guys.
ETP took AFR's idea and did their best on what they felt could be improved. The major change was the valve angle. They offer all their heads with a 11 degree valve angle which helps the shrouding of the valve and allow's more midlift flow. This is considered by most a advantage over the 15 degree heads. ETP by far has the most options when shopping for a head. They offer a 215cc head and a 225cc head. You can get either as a 62 cc chamber or 72cc chamber. With the 62 cc head you can again gain extra compression without milling, and with the 72cc head those wanting to boost a stock bottomend can acturally lower compression. ETP's other huge benifit is that their head acturally allows more P/V clearence then a stock head. So now those wanting to run a Big cam and have 12:1 compression can do it without flycuting. Just make sure you measure, as there is still a point where you will run into P/V issue's but you can get away with much more. ETP uses their own valvetrain, which comes setup and ready to run. You will however need a 8.1" pushrod and the use of their rocker stands is required.
TFS, Trickflow and TEA have teamed up to make their aftermarket LSX head.
Like ETP they have rolled the valve angle and it is now 13.5 degree's.
These heads are the newest to the market and allready have been making a good name for themselves. They start as 64 cc's and include the same dual gold spring kit as the TEA heads. 2.04/1.57 valves come standard. A longer pushrod is used with the TFS heads as well and are 7.7" long.
Trickflow used the same thinking as ETP with these heads and has some of the same benifits like better P/V clearence. From what I have heard 50 thousand's more P/V is common with this head which again gives the advantage to those wanting to run a larger cam and higher compression w/o having to flycut.
Customer service is great with all these company's as well, the biggest turnoff is long wait times. TFS and TSP say they can get you a set to your door within 2 weeks of order. ETP and AFR have long waits but most people feel the product is worth the wait.
So if your in the max power class and budget isn't your main concern then give these guys a call.
AFR
(818) 890-0616
TSP
(806) 866-0734
ETP
(248) 668-9390
TEA (sells the trickflow heads)
(330) 784-5210
Hope this is some help to you guys looking to buy a new set of clyinder heads.
Jeremy
DartvsETPvsAFRvsTFSvsTSPvsTEAvsPP.
Options galore....
Lets start with the stock cubic inch LS1 guys. Every head above can be purchased and work very well with a stock motor.
I am going to seperate the heads by price for now.
So we have Texas Speed and Performance (TSP), Patroit Performance(PP), Dart, Total Engine Airflow (TEA) in this groupe. Each company having a very nice high quality head for under 1500 dollars assembled.
Patroit and TSP being the cheepest with Dart and TEA being a couple hundred dollars more.
What you get.
Patroit has many options, but the one I am going to use for the 346 cubic inch guys is their ported LS6 head. The LS6 head starts a superior casting vs the LS1 head and therefore can give better results. You get a fully CnC ported head, with a great spring kit including locks, titanium retainers, dual gold valve springs, machined bases, Viton rubber seals and on top of that all you get a 5 angle valve job for only 1000 dollars.
If you want Ferrea valves for intake and exhaust it's only 200 dollars extra.
TSP has a similar option as the Patroit heads. Many people sware by these heads and they seem like a great option as well. You get the same 243 LS6 castings fully CnC ported. These heads are priced at 900 dollars, and if you would like TSP offer's their custom valve job for an extra 100 bucks.
1 more option is TSP has their own spring kit that is nearly identical as the patroit spring kit, it will run a extra 250.
This option should be great for someone wanting to pick up some impressive HP on a budget.
TEA is next on the list with a very good ported GM casting head.
In the budget war they offer a head priced in line with TSP and Patroit. Its their budget LS1 head. They use a 241 casting and do their magic to that. It comes setup similar with stock valves and I believe comp 918 springs. Price is right at 900 dollars plus core. You can upgrade to their dual spring kit for and extra 50 dollars.
TEA part 2. They can do the same thing as above but use a LS6 head. This package normally comes with TEA's dual spring kit which is again almost the exact same thing as the Patroit, and TSP kits. TEA does their full CnC program on this head with a very good valve job and includes Manley intake valves. All priced for around 1100 dollars plus core. .
Dart is the only "budget" LSX aftermarket head on the market.
Darts head looks very similar to a stock LS6 head but they have improved it everywhere. It is not CnC ported but as cast works very well.
Dart has their own spring kit using a behive spring rated to 625 lift.
The awsome thing about the dart head is that you can buy it for now on a budget and if you ever run into some extra cash and wish to go faster you can always have someone port the dart head for some extra power. With the other budget heads your more or less out of room to grow heads wise.
The other advantage with the dart head is that it starts as a 62cc head. Most of us H/C guys want 11:1 compression and with a 62cc head and stock head gasket you right in that compression range. You get aftermarket valves with the heads and to my knowledge P/V clearence is almost exactly the same as a stock LS6 head which mean you can run the bigger cams, have 11:1 compression and still not have to flycut. A great benifit.
This is a breakdown of the budget heads on my list so now if these heads are in your price range it is time to start doing some real thinking.
I have my personial favorites but I am not trying to suggest 1 head over the other. I have used at least 1 set of heads from each company, and at least 2 sets from each company except TSP, which hopefully will change soon.
Customer service is top notch with TSP/TEA and Patroit. Dart has dealers everywhere which included Summitt/Jegs and quite a few other companies who have great customer service.
So give the guys a call and let them sell you their product.
Patriot Performance
888-462-8276
Texas Speed and Performance
(806) 866-0734
Total Engine Airflow
(330) 784-5210
Now it the Big boys turn.
Here we have Air flow research (AFR), ET Performance (ETP), TSP(using Edelbrock castings) Trick Flow (TFS),
There are a few I will leave out due to lack of knowledge, or the fact I don't feel they compete with this groupe. All Pro and Edelbrock are those 2, and PP has a head that will be out shortly as well.
AFR, what can we say about the company that started it all. They were the first the start the aftermarket casting LSx heads and have done a awsome job making power since day 1. AFR offer's a 205 and 225 cc head for the stock cubic inch guys based off a 3.9 bore. Quality, fit and finish is very noticeable as soon as you open the box. AFR starts life almost similar to a stock LS1 head and is 66cc's out of the box. This means you can get stock compression or with some milling up the compression. A thicker deck is a benifit especially for the FI guys and the fact that you can get a very well flowing head that stays very small in the port for great velocity is another huge plus.
The 225 is commonly used for those with large cams trying to get those extra few pony's. They flow better then the 205's but normally only carry a advantage in a car that see's the strip often. We could discuss AFR all day and what the brought to the LS1 market, but we need to move on.
TSP's, Terminator head. TSP has taken a Edelbrock head and made it their own. They buy a aftermarket casting and do this port work on it to make a very nice product. This head similar to the dart head starts off as 62cc's which is nice for those wanting more compression without giving up P/V clearence. They are also a small runner at only 200cc's and flow as well as many LS6 ported heads which gives them a big benifit over stock ported castings. 2.02/1.57 valves come stock and I am sure upgrades can be made for the bigger cubic inch guys if requested. A thicker comes stock and this gives a huge advantage for those boosted guys.
ETP took AFR's idea and did their best on what they felt could be improved. The major change was the valve angle. They offer all their heads with a 11 degree valve angle which helps the shrouding of the valve and allow's more midlift flow. This is considered by most a advantage over the 15 degree heads. ETP by far has the most options when shopping for a head. They offer a 215cc head and a 225cc head. You can get either as a 62 cc chamber or 72cc chamber. With the 62 cc head you can again gain extra compression without milling, and with the 72cc head those wanting to boost a stock bottomend can acturally lower compression. ETP's other huge benifit is that their head acturally allows more P/V clearence then a stock head. So now those wanting to run a Big cam and have 12:1 compression can do it without flycuting. Just make sure you measure, as there is still a point where you will run into P/V issue's but you can get away with much more. ETP uses their own valvetrain, which comes setup and ready to run. You will however need a 8.1" pushrod and the use of their rocker stands is required.
TFS, Trickflow and TEA have teamed up to make their aftermarket LSX head.
Like ETP they have rolled the valve angle and it is now 13.5 degree's.
These heads are the newest to the market and allready have been making a good name for themselves. They start as 64 cc's and include the same dual gold spring kit as the TEA heads. 2.04/1.57 valves come standard. A longer pushrod is used with the TFS heads as well and are 7.7" long.
Trickflow used the same thinking as ETP with these heads and has some of the same benifits like better P/V clearence. From what I have heard 50 thousand's more P/V is common with this head which again gives the advantage to those wanting to run a larger cam and higher compression w/o having to flycut.
Customer service is great with all these company's as well, the biggest turnoff is long wait times. TFS and TSP say they can get you a set to your door within 2 weeks of order. ETP and AFR have long waits but most people feel the product is worth the wait.
So if your in the max power class and budget isn't your main concern then give these guys a call.
AFR
(818) 890-0616
TSP
(806) 866-0734
ETP
(248) 668-9390
TEA (sells the trickflow heads)
(330) 784-5210
Hope this is some help to you guys looking to buy a new set of clyinder heads.
Jeremy
08-08-2006, 12:53 PM
#3
Definitely sticky worthy. Nice writeup.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
08-08-2006, 06:29 PM
#6
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JZ...
ETP have hardened head bolt inserts too...
There's also more than just a "rolled valve angle" that they feature in their package. Best to get an ETP rep in here to explain the details.
Ed
ETP have hardened head bolt inserts too...
There's also more than just a "rolled valve angle" that they feature in their package. Best to get an ETP rep in here to explain the details.
Ed
08-08-2006, 06:33 PM
#7
To make this a good sticky, it's best to edit your original post as you have additional info.
__________________
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
2013 Corvette Grand Sport A6 LME forged 416, Greg Good ported TFS 255 LS3 heads, 222/242 .629"/.604" 121LSA Pat G blower cam, ARH 1 7/8" headers, ESC Novi 1500 Supercharger w/8 rib direct drive conversion, 747rwhp/709rwtq on 93 octane, 801rwhp/735rwtq on race fuel, 10.1 @ 147.25mph 1/4 mile, 174.7mph Half Mile.
2016 Corvette Z51 M7 Magnuson Heartbeat 2300 supercharger, TSP LT headers, Pat G tuned, 667rwhp, 662rwtq, 191mph TX Mile.
2009.5 Pontiac G8 GT 6.0L, A6, AFR 230v2 heads. 506rwhp/442rwtq. 11.413 @ 121.29mph 1/4 mile, 168.7mph TX Mile
2000 Pewter Ram Air Trans Am M6 heads/cam 508 rwhp/445 rwtq SAE, 183.092 TX Mile
2018 Cadillac Escalade 6.2L A10 Pat G tuned.
LS1,LS2,LS3,LS7,LT1 Custom Camshaft Specialist For custom camshaft help press here.
Custom LSX tuning in person or via email press here.
Trending Topics
08-08-2006, 06:49 PM
#8
Originally Posted by EDC
JZ...
ETP have hardened head bolt inserts too...
There's also more than just a "rolled valve angle" that they feature in their package. Best to get an ETP rep in here to explain the details.
Ed
ETP have hardened head bolt inserts too...
There's also more than just a "rolled valve angle" that they feature in their package. Best to get an ETP rep in here to explain the details.
Ed
Ed I know all about the ET heads but didn't want to favor 1 head over any other. Besides I didn't wish to type that long.
Basicially I was trying to get the bigger details in this thread without over providing the information.
This is why the phone numbers for each company are listed.
Maybe 1 out of 100 will buy ET heads because they have hardened head bolt inserts, but for the avarage guy this isn't a major concern.
Hell I can give you the exact weight of the ET heads, bare,assembled, I know off the top of my head what 1 spring weights, the spring pressure, what heads use the thicker guides and which ones use the thinner guides.
As much info as there is in each head there would be a book to read to get them all covered. Again I am not trying to favor any head and am just providing the avarage guy with some good options.
To Cary, Tony M, Zach, Gunner, Brian or anyone else that feels there is important info left out then let me have it and I will gladly add it in my origional post.
I didn't think about a sticky but if we are going to have that a possibality I would like to make sure everything is 100% accurate and all the important info is here.
For example, Tony what is the upgraded spring you guys use and how much extra is it? On the AFR heads I have seen the standard spring looks just like a dual gold spring but not as shinny.
08-08-2006, 07:11 PM
#9
The upgraded AFR spring is an 8019 pt# with the following specs:
Premium Grade Chrome Silicon
1.270 O.D
.645 I.D
155# @ 1.810
412# @ 1.210
1.080 coil bind
428 spring rate
650 max recommended max lift.
its a $99 dollars to upgrade when purchasing the heads direct.
Premium Grade Chrome Silicon
1.270 O.D
.645 I.D
155# @ 1.810
412# @ 1.210
1.080 coil bind
428 spring rate
650 max recommended max lift.
its a $99 dollars to upgrade when purchasing the heads direct.
Last edited by jrp; 08-08-2006 at 07:18 PM.
08-08-2006, 10:36 PM
#12
Originally Posted by jrp
The upgraded AFR spring is an 8019 pt# with the following specs:
Premium Grade Chrome Silicon
1.270 O.D
.645 I.D
155# @ 1.810
412# @ 1.210
1.080 coil bind
428 spring rate
650 max recommended max lift.
its a $99 dollars to upgrade when purchasing the heads direct.
Premium Grade Chrome Silicon
1.270 O.D
.645 I.D
155# @ 1.810
412# @ 1.210
1.080 coil bind
428 spring rate
650 max recommended max lift.
its a $99 dollars to upgrade when purchasing the heads direct.
Thanks JRP I figured you knew this or had it saved in your files somewhere.
I need to start saving more info, my head can only store so much info.
08-08-2006, 11:06 PM
#14
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You might want to add Patriots' new "Predator" series heads to your list, could find anything (as of a couple days ago) on Patriots' web sight but Byun Speed has them listed. They're available in a couple of intake volume sizes........they sound very promising too! 
09-08-2006, 05:24 PM
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All those info must be accurate, none of the designer of the mentioned products added any comment or jumped in for any correction...
Missing may be the flow # from the same operator on the same flow bench between all those quality products...
A must would be to have all those heads compare on the same engine dyno balanced with their best set-up with an appropriate and optimized tune :
-average power and max power
-average torque and max torque
Graph starting at 2000rpm on fuel pump gas
Christian
Missing may be the flow # from the same operator on the same flow bench between all those quality products...
A must would be to have all those heads compare on the same engine dyno balanced with their best set-up with an appropriate and optimized tune :
-average power and max power
-average torque and max torque
Graph starting at 2000rpm on fuel pump gas
Christian
