Hey pro engine builders-Which is a better piston Wiseco LSX or Manley Platinum?
12-07-2014, 11:07 PM
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Hey pro engine builders-Which is a better piston Wiseco LSX or Manley Platinum? Which would you put a 408" stroker. I can get the manley's for 129.00 cheaper, only difference I see is they're -4cc instead of -3cc. Should I go with them over the wiseco's?
12-10-2014, 08:38 PM
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When did these babies hit the market? They offer the EXACT piston config I needed when I was building my 416 earlier this summer. Bummer
I ended having to settle for .5 less CR than I wanted...and they are lighter than my Wiseco's. Looks like price is a push after you buy rings (since Wiseco's come with rings).
I ended having to settle for .5 less CR than I wanted...and they are lighter than my Wiseco's. Looks like price is a push after you buy rings (since Wiseco's come with rings).
12-11-2014, 06:31 AM
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Look up JE Asymmetrical pistons boy are those things light & strong have a set in mine.
920 bucks without rings (went with Total seal gap-less rings bought seperately) 11:1 with 70cc heads milled mine to get up near 11:8. I got a little 408 stroker LQ9 with Tick solid roller and Frankenstien LS3 stage 1 heads. I just called JE got there part number and ordered mine threw Jay couldn't get any discount on pistons.
JE part # 311979 .030 over bore for 4 inch crank stroker
920 bucks without rings (went with Total seal gap-less rings bought seperately) 11:1 with 70cc heads milled mine to get up near 11:8. I got a little 408 stroker LQ9 with Tick solid roller and Frankenstien LS3 stage 1 heads. I just called JE got there part number and ordered mine threw Jay couldn't get any discount on pistons.
JE part # 311979 .030 over bore for 4 inch crank stroker
12-11-2014, 08:48 AM
#6
I'd lean towards the Wiseco. They run a 1.2/1.2/3.0mm ring pack whereas the Manley's are a larger 1.5/1.5/3.0mm. Thinner rings = less friction/mo powa!
Last I heard, Mahle was going to start running 1mm rings in their pistons. You have to call when you order though to make sure you don't get old stock with the 1.5mm rings.
Last I heard, Mahle was going to start running 1mm rings in their pistons. You have to call when you order though to make sure you don't get old stock with the 1.5mm rings.
12-11-2014, 09:18 AM
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I'd lean towards the Wiseco. They run a 1.2/1.2/3.0mm ring pack whereas the Manley's are a larger 1.5/1.5/3.0mm. Thinner rings = less friction/mo powa!
Last I heard, Mahle was going to start running 1mm rings in their pistons. You have to call when you order though to make sure you don't get old stock with the 1.5mm rings.
Last I heard, Mahle was going to start running 1mm rings in their pistons. You have to call when you order though to make sure you don't get old stock with the 1.5mm rings.
I've looked into them...but they sure are proud of them!
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12-11-2014, 11:07 AM
#9
KCS,
Have you observed appreciable power differences with smaller rings and different skirt designs?
Not something I've had much if any experience with, but I know there is a large amount of power in the ring package if it's done right. Skirt design as well.
Have you observed appreciable power differences with smaller rings and different skirt designs?
Not something I've had much if any experience with, but I know there is a large amount of power in the ring package if it's done right. Skirt design as well.
12-11-2014, 11:18 AM
#10
It seems like the JE's were a very good idea to reduce friction by shrinking the skirt on the minor thrust, and leaving the skirt larger on the side with the major thrust to aid in keeping the piston stable and being able to spread out the load on that major thrust side.
12-11-2014, 11:58 AM
#11
12-11-2014, 12:39 PM
#12
I haven't conducted any testing myself, but I've been privy to some results from others who have. It's pretty intuitive, as you reduce friction, power goes up but there's a bit of a balancing act with wear and stability within the bore. The spacing of the machining grooves on the skirt even has a measurable effect!
It seems like the JE's were a very good idea to reduce friction by shrinking the skirt on the minor thrust, and leaving the skirt larger on the side with the major thrust to aid in keeping the piston stable and being able to spread out the load on that major thrust side.
It seems like the JE's were a very good idea to reduce friction by shrinking the skirt on the minor thrust, and leaving the skirt larger on the side with the major thrust to aid in keeping the piston stable and being able to spread out the load on that major thrust side.
I ask because we're building a serious 9000rpm+ N/A motor right now for one of our employees and we're actually using that JE 4.185" bore 4.0" stroke asymmetrical dome piston in it. We have talked about trying some new things we have never done before with ring material, low tension etc. We've never built a 9000rpm+ motor so it will be a learning experience.
Might pick your brain on it one day.
Sorry for the hi-jack OP.
12-11-2014, 02:49 PM
#14
The finish hone IMO should be chosen by the machinist/engine builder based upon experience and the application. The ring package being used will also dictate the needed surface finish of the hone.
A race engine that will be refreshed once or twice a year would in my opinion have a much different finish hone than an engine that needs to go a minimum of 40,000-50,000 miles before a refresh. Or even longer than that.
A race engine that will be refreshed once or twice a year would in my opinion have a much different finish hone than an engine that needs to go a minimum of 40,000-50,000 miles before a refresh. Or even longer than that.
12-11-2014, 08:20 PM
#15
From tests ive seen in a all out engine app ive always seen the .043/.043/3mm rings to well for themselves. Thats what i will be running. With a vacuum pump and gas ports. Only thing i wish i had was a little more compression. I will be spinning 9k-9500 in my engine
As far as the pistons you really cant go wrong with either. whichever fits the application best i would run.
As far as the pistons you really cant go wrong with either. whichever fits the application best i would run.
Last edited by Violence.z06; 12-11-2014 at 08:28 PM.
12-12-2014, 12:37 AM
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Many companys are owned by the same people but that dose not mean that the products are the same.The barrel and skirt taper designs are different from JE and Wiseco among a few other things
Ring material and face material determines the hone job along with sleeve material and lubricity,with the really small rings .032-.027 you have a very fine hone finish to not eat up the rings fast and keep seal as long as you can,1.5 or 1.2mm are forgiving on finish compared to them
There is power in the compression rings but the main friction is on the oil rings and a 2mm can do the job of a 3mm ring and cut the friction down quite a bit
Look at all the import motors what they use,they are a prime exaple of a motor that needs friction reduction to improve power
The wisecos have better features abide from skirt desing as in accumulator grooves,ring spacing ect..,Manley dose make good stuff but its not as advanced
JE has used the reduction skirts in Ford Nascar engines for a few years
Ring material and face material determines the hone job along with sleeve material and lubricity,with the really small rings .032-.027 you have a very fine hone finish to not eat up the rings fast and keep seal as long as you can,1.5 or 1.2mm are forgiving on finish compared to them
There is power in the compression rings but the main friction is on the oil rings and a 2mm can do the job of a 3mm ring and cut the friction down quite a bit
Look at all the import motors what they use,they are a prime exaple of a motor that needs friction reduction to improve power
The wisecos have better features abide from skirt desing as in accumulator grooves,ring spacing ect..,Manley dose make good stuff but its not as advanced
JE has used the reduction skirts in Ford Nascar engines for a few years
Last edited by Ari G; 12-12-2014 at 12:52 AM.
12-12-2014, 10:09 AM
#17
Wiseco makes nice stuff, but all we use is the Manley Pistons for LS. They do make there own pistons (not subbed out), a good alloy, skirt coated and the quality/machine work is top notch.
We also like that Manely puts a relief in for the reluctor wheel, where as Wiseco doesn't, at least the ones we have used. When we told them about it...they never heard of this issue....yet other manufactures had them in there designs...go figure.
We also like that Manely puts a relief in for the reluctor wheel, where as Wiseco doesn't, at least the ones we have used. When we told them about it...they never heard of this issue....yet other manufactures had them in there designs...go figure.
12-12-2014, 10:37 AM
#18
Wiseco makes nice stuff, but all we use is the Manley Pistons for LS. They do make there own pistons (not subbed out), a good alloy, skirt coated and the quality/machine work is top notch.
We also like that Manely puts a relief in for the reluctor wheel, where as Wiseco doesn't, at least the ones we have used. When we told them about it...they never heard of this issue....yet other manufactures had them in there designs...go figure.
We also like that Manely puts a relief in for the reluctor wheel, where as Wiseco doesn't, at least the ones we have used. When we told them about it...they never heard of this issue....yet other manufactures had them in there designs...go figure.
Also, Wiseco's don't need a relief for the reluctor. They use a shorter pin which allows them to narrow the pin bosses. It's been like that since at least 2008.
12-12-2014, 10:52 AM
#19
Yeah, that's what they thought as well until we showed them. It was making contact with the wheel. They also did not have enough side to side clearance with a Manley Rod...they said we should not have a problem with either of these 2 situations....They agreed with us afterwards.
I will see if I can dig up the pictures.
12-12-2014, 11:32 AM
#20
Not at all, but as said, others do farm it out and Manley use too...just an FYI.
Yeah, that's what they thought as well until we showed them. It was making contact with the wheel. They also did not have enough side to side clearance with a Manley Rod...they said we should not have a problem with either of these 2 situations....They agreed with us afterwards.
I will see if I can dig up the pictures.
Yeah, that's what they thought as well until we showed them. It was making contact with the wheel. They also did not have enough side to side clearance with a Manley Rod...they said we should not have a problem with either of these 2 situations....They agreed with us afterwards.
I will see if I can dig up the pictures.