Are one the same?
10-21-2008, 12:30 AM
#1
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Are one the same? Sorry if this is a dumb question, I'm new to engine work, I'm finally putting my cam in soon and I'm wrapping up on ordering all my parts. Of course someone experience is helping me. But I'd figured I'd ask here since it's easier.
Are spring locators the same as spring seats?
Also if I happen to need shims what size shims should I go with. Sorry guys I'm not the greatest on reading the details on the springs, so I'm not sure what size shims to get. These are my springs... http://www.pacracing.com/Street_Stri...Set_of_16.html
Are spring locators the same as spring seats?
Also if I happen to need shims what size shims should I go with. Sorry guys I'm not the greatest on reading the details on the springs, so I'm not sure what size shims to get. These are my springs... http://www.pacracing.com/Street_Stri...Set_of_16.html
10-21-2008, 07:56 PM
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Thanks for the response guys, I was hoping they were the same thing, just not 100% sure. And I have a micrometer to measure them, Idk what I'm doing so I have an experienced friend helping out lol.
10-22-2008, 09:00 AM
#6
^ Quoted.
First is set the wipe pattern up correctly, then measure for pushrod length. If shims are required to get the correct wipe, then the pushrod length may change and should be measured. Here is how I did mine (copied from my post on Corvetteforum).
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I just finished setting up the wipe pattern of my Yella Terra roller rockers on my new AFR heads. The Yella Terra rockers are fixed fulcrum rockers (as opposed to a fully adjustable rocker like the Crane I set up on my current configuration) and are furnished with a rocker pedestal and a single shim that is 0.048” thick, which when placed under the pedestal, will raise the fulcrum of the rocker and move the roller location towards the exhaust side of the valve stem. The goal is to center the wipe pattern on the valve stem and minimize the width of the pattern. When the width is reduced over the course of rocker motion, then the side loading into the valve guides is also reduced. This not only provides faster valve motions but also minimizes valve guide wear. Below is a photo of how the Yella Terra setup is installed with the pedestal and shim (if used) under the rocker shaft and the bolt passing through the assembly and into the threaded hole in the head.
I am doing this on the workbench but this can also be done on the car. The workbench has the advantage that there is more time to set things up and if parts are needed the car won’t be down as it would if you were in the middle of the head installation. Plus, it’s easier on the back.
The first step is to remove two valve springs and replace them with checking springs. I have two sets of checking springs and I used the stiffer set since they provide more force against the rocker to help in wiping off the ink that is applied to obtain the final wipe pattern.
Once the check springs are installed, set the cylinder head in the air such that the valves can be manually operated without contacting the workbench surface. Using a dial indicator allows you to manually operate the rocker arm to the required valve lift. Since the final wipe pattern is lift sensitive, you have to ensure that the motion you are moving the rocker through imitates that which will be driven by the cam.
The next step in the operation is to setup your rockers and snug the bolts. There is no need to fully torque the bolts and load the threads in the aluminum head. Hand snug is fine and will eliminate thread wear as the bolts are taken in and out several times during the process. Once the rockers are in place with the shims that are being checked, and your measurement method is setup to determine how much the valve is being moved, use a Sharpie to spread black ink on the upper surface of the valve stem. I have found it best to not allow the ink to dry too long as with checking springs it doesn’t wipe off as well. Instead, I use a cotton swap and pull off most of the cotton then soak it with ink from the Sharpie. Then I simply rotate the rocker back off of the valve stem and apply the ink. After it is just dry, then the wipe test is conducted by rotating the rocker arm by hand in the same manner as the pushrod and cam would if the head were on the motor. This process is repeated until a satisfactory wipe pattern is found by adjusting the height of the shim. A thicker shim should push the wipe pattern towards the exhaust side of the valve stem. This will be critical later as the pushrod length changes approximately 0.016” in length for every 0.010” of shim you add to the rocker pedestal so that the wipe pattern needs to be established first followed by the pushrod length.
I started the process with no shim in place under the pedestal and then added shims until I got the desired wipe pattern. Washers can be used and stacked for this process but once a thickness is found you need to find a single piece shim of the correct thickness. In the photo below (sorry for the crappy photography), three of the patterns are shown. On the left is the wipe pattern without a shim. Notice that the wipe pattern is towards the intake side of the valve stem and barely gets to the valve stem center over the course of travel of the roller on the rocker. In the middle photo, shimming has now moved the wipe pattern towards the center of the valve stem. It is still biased to the intake side and a little wide. The final wipe pattern on the right is the shim setup I will use for final installation, as I am very pleased with the final wipe pattern obtained. Note that the shim value can be different for any given setup, the point being that simply bolting on the rockers from the box would have yielded the pattern on the left and likely resulted in not only disappointing results but higher than necessary valve guide wear for my installation. I bought my final shims (11/32" ID, 13/16" OD from McMaster-Carr, which are available in a lot of thicknesses. These were pretty much a perfect fit under the pedestal if you need a thickness that differs than the one provided by Yella Terra for any reason.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
I just finished setting up the wipe pattern of my Yella Terra roller rockers on my new AFR heads. The Yella Terra rockers are fixed fulcrum rockers (as opposed to a fully adjustable rocker like the Crane I set up on my current configuration) and are furnished with a rocker pedestal and a single shim that is 0.048” thick, which when placed under the pedestal, will raise the fulcrum of the rocker and move the roller location towards the exhaust side of the valve stem. The goal is to center the wipe pattern on the valve stem and minimize the width of the pattern. When the width is reduced over the course of rocker motion, then the side loading into the valve guides is also reduced. This not only provides faster valve motions but also minimizes valve guide wear. Below is a photo of how the Yella Terra setup is installed with the pedestal and shim (if used) under the rocker shaft and the bolt passing through the assembly and into the threaded hole in the head.
I am doing this on the workbench but this can also be done on the car. The workbench has the advantage that there is more time to set things up and if parts are needed the car won’t be down as it would if you were in the middle of the head installation. Plus, it’s easier on the back.
The first step is to remove two valve springs and replace them with checking springs. I have two sets of checking springs and I used the stiffer set since they provide more force against the rocker to help in wiping off the ink that is applied to obtain the final wipe pattern.
Once the check springs are installed, set the cylinder head in the air such that the valves can be manually operated without contacting the workbench surface. Using a dial indicator allows you to manually operate the rocker arm to the required valve lift. Since the final wipe pattern is lift sensitive, you have to ensure that the motion you are moving the rocker through imitates that which will be driven by the cam.
The next step in the operation is to setup your rockers and snug the bolts. There is no need to fully torque the bolts and load the threads in the aluminum head. Hand snug is fine and will eliminate thread wear as the bolts are taken in and out several times during the process. Once the rockers are in place with the shims that are being checked, and your measurement method is setup to determine how much the valve is being moved, use a Sharpie to spread black ink on the upper surface of the valve stem. I have found it best to not allow the ink to dry too long as with checking springs it doesn’t wipe off as well. Instead, I use a cotton swap and pull off most of the cotton then soak it with ink from the Sharpie. Then I simply rotate the rocker back off of the valve stem and apply the ink. After it is just dry, then the wipe test is conducted by rotating the rocker arm by hand in the same manner as the pushrod and cam would if the head were on the motor. This process is repeated until a satisfactory wipe pattern is found by adjusting the height of the shim. A thicker shim should push the wipe pattern towards the exhaust side of the valve stem. This will be critical later as the pushrod length changes approximately 0.016” in length for every 0.010” of shim you add to the rocker pedestal so that the wipe pattern needs to be established first followed by the pushrod length.
I started the process with no shim in place under the pedestal and then added shims until I got the desired wipe pattern. Washers can be used and stacked for this process but once a thickness is found you need to find a single piece shim of the correct thickness. In the photo below (sorry for the crappy photography), three of the patterns are shown. On the left is the wipe pattern without a shim. Notice that the wipe pattern is towards the intake side of the valve stem and barely gets to the valve stem center over the course of travel of the roller on the rocker. In the middle photo, shimming has now moved the wipe pattern towards the center of the valve stem. It is still biased to the intake side and a little wide. The final wipe pattern on the right is the shim setup I will use for final installation, as I am very pleased with the final wipe pattern obtained. Note that the shim value can be different for any given setup, the point being that simply bolting on the rockers from the box would have yielded the pattern on the left and likely resulted in not only disappointing results but higher than necessary valve guide wear for my installation. I bought my final shims (11/32" ID, 13/16" OD from McMaster-Carr, which are available in a lot of thicknesses. These were pretty much a perfect fit under the pedestal if you need a thickness that differs than the one provided by Yella Terra for any reason.
