5.3 into 2nd Gen Camaro questions/feedback
07-05-2010, 09:26 AM
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5.3 into 2nd Gen Camaro questions/feedback Just wanted to say how much this site rocks!! I have gotten a ton of info searching on the site. I have an 81Z that I plan on putting a 5.3 into when I get back from my deployment to Afghanistan and I have a few questions and would like some feedback from some of the folks on here who have done this before.
Set up will be with an EDL performer RPM intake and carb/ MSD ignition backed up with a 200R4 auto trans, I plan on hooking up the A/C as well. Nothing to exotic, I would like to keep the modifications as simple as possible using as much of the original equipment as possible but Im not totally tied to it, and of course cost is involved as well. After searching thorugh the site I have a couple of questions that I am still a little shaky on.
1. Motor mounts. I plan on using a set of adapter engine mounts, no set back. Will that will put the engine in the factory location or do I need to use the type that set the motor back an inch?
2. Serpentine set up. Since the motor will come out of a truck, it is my understanding that in order to fit everything under the hood, I will need to use either the Corvette or F Body serpentine set ups. Is that correct?
I looked at the GMPP sets and this is what I think I know,
A. With the F Body set up I would still have to relocate the alt so it doesnt hit the idler arm.
B. With the Corvette set up I would have to relocate the AC bracket to the top. Can anyone confirm either of those statements. I would like to keep it as simple as possible. I saw the Kwik Performance set ups but dont like the idea of doing a remote power steering resivor.
C. Third option is to buy the mounting hardware from the dealer/ vendor piece by piece to get the set up I want with the AC up top on the right and the Corvette stuff on the right. Not sure if that would be cost effective but I did see some of the members here do breakdowns by pieces.
3. Headers. Can I get away with using a set of headers like the Pacesetters or will I need to use the Edelbrock or Hedman headers that are designed specifically for the swap? Also what would be the difference between the mid and long tubes? Would it make a differernce since Im not doing alot of mods to the engine?
4. Fuel Pump and carb, I plan on using an electric fuel pump with an internal regulator. Since I'm running a carb, can I use the existing fuel lines and just mount the pump at the rear of the car near the tank or will I have to rework the fuel lines completley? Do I need a return line and if so, how would I do a return line, would it come off of the carb or the electric fuel pump? Would I need to wire a relay to support the electric fuel pump? Also what size would be best 600- 650 cfm EDL or Holley?
5. Power steering, I would need to have some type of adapter to hook the high pressure line from the pump to the steering gear box right? I read that there is a difference in the way the hook up between the different years.
6. Cooling. I can use the regular radiator from the 81 or use an 3rd GEN Fbody radiator and hoses, I would need to use the electric fans or use an aftermarket fan. If I go aftermarket, is there a specific size I need to stay with to support the system ie 12 inch or larger? Also I would need to run a relay to adequaltey supply power to the electric fan, is that correct?
7. A/C. If I go with an aftermarket Sanden type unit, how hard will it be to set up with the existing A/C components in the car, ie hoses etc? Will I have to go to a completley aftermarket set up or can I keep the rest of the orginal type consenseres, dryers etc ?
8. In order to use the 200R4 I with the flexplate from the 5.3 I will need to use an adapter or go with the Huges flywheel right?
9. Oil pan. I would need to get an GEN III F-body oil pan along with the windage tray, dipstick tube etc to get it to fit into the Camaro.
Ok sorry if I turned this into a novel, just wanted to make sure I captured all my questions into one email.
Thanks in advance.
Set up will be with an EDL performer RPM intake and carb/ MSD ignition backed up with a 200R4 auto trans, I plan on hooking up the A/C as well. Nothing to exotic, I would like to keep the modifications as simple as possible using as much of the original equipment as possible but Im not totally tied to it, and of course cost is involved as well. After searching thorugh the site I have a couple of questions that I am still a little shaky on.
1. Motor mounts. I plan on using a set of adapter engine mounts, no set back. Will that will put the engine in the factory location or do I need to use the type that set the motor back an inch?
2. Serpentine set up. Since the motor will come out of a truck, it is my understanding that in order to fit everything under the hood, I will need to use either the Corvette or F Body serpentine set ups. Is that correct?
I looked at the GMPP sets and this is what I think I know,
A. With the F Body set up I would still have to relocate the alt so it doesnt hit the idler arm.
B. With the Corvette set up I would have to relocate the AC bracket to the top. Can anyone confirm either of those statements. I would like to keep it as simple as possible. I saw the Kwik Performance set ups but dont like the idea of doing a remote power steering resivor.
C. Third option is to buy the mounting hardware from the dealer/ vendor piece by piece to get the set up I want with the AC up top on the right and the Corvette stuff on the right. Not sure if that would be cost effective but I did see some of the members here do breakdowns by pieces.
3. Headers. Can I get away with using a set of headers like the Pacesetters or will I need to use the Edelbrock or Hedman headers that are designed specifically for the swap? Also what would be the difference between the mid and long tubes? Would it make a differernce since Im not doing alot of mods to the engine?
4. Fuel Pump and carb, I plan on using an electric fuel pump with an internal regulator. Since I'm running a carb, can I use the existing fuel lines and just mount the pump at the rear of the car near the tank or will I have to rework the fuel lines completley? Do I need a return line and if so, how would I do a return line, would it come off of the carb or the electric fuel pump? Would I need to wire a relay to support the electric fuel pump? Also what size would be best 600- 650 cfm EDL or Holley?
5. Power steering, I would need to have some type of adapter to hook the high pressure line from the pump to the steering gear box right? I read that there is a difference in the way the hook up between the different years.
6. Cooling. I can use the regular radiator from the 81 or use an 3rd GEN Fbody radiator and hoses, I would need to use the electric fans or use an aftermarket fan. If I go aftermarket, is there a specific size I need to stay with to support the system ie 12 inch or larger? Also I would need to run a relay to adequaltey supply power to the electric fan, is that correct?
7. A/C. If I go with an aftermarket Sanden type unit, how hard will it be to set up with the existing A/C components in the car, ie hoses etc? Will I have to go to a completley aftermarket set up or can I keep the rest of the orginal type consenseres, dryers etc ?
8. In order to use the 200R4 I with the flexplate from the 5.3 I will need to use an adapter or go with the Huges flywheel right?
9. Oil pan. I would need to get an GEN III F-body oil pan along with the windage tray, dipstick tube etc to get it to fit into the Camaro.
Ok sorry if I turned this into a novel, just wanted to make sure I captured all my questions into one email.
Thanks in advance.
07-05-2010, 10:46 AM
#2
Welcome,
1) 1" setback is the typical plate used. CarShops plates seemed to be preferred. If you go a different supplier, be sure the bolt holes for the engine mount are lower than the holes going into the block.
2)I don't believe the truck setup will work. Some people have luck with the F-body ( I prefer F-body but bought Vette). FYI... the iron block will need a hole drilled and tapped for the F-body alt. mount Some people don't have any problem with alt. pulley hitting the steering box.. I wanted to avoid this & went Vette.
B) www.pacePerformance.com now has upper AC mount too. They have real good prices on sertintine drive systems. with & without AC. The F-body style drive is now referred to as the Caddy CTS-v
I will skip questions I have no idea of.
6) You can use your stock radiator and run aftermarker fans. I'd try Summit or Jegs economy dual fans. When people keep the EFI, they can run 4th gen F-body radiator & hoses and have the ECM contoll the fans.
9) If you use 1" set-back mounts, a 98-02 Fbody oilpan kit(tray,pickup etc...) works perfectly.
good luck,
Jim
1) 1" setback is the typical plate used. CarShops plates seemed to be preferred. If you go a different supplier, be sure the bolt holes for the engine mount are lower than the holes going into the block.
2)I don't believe the truck setup will work. Some people have luck with the F-body ( I prefer F-body but bought Vette). FYI... the iron block will need a hole drilled and tapped for the F-body alt. mount Some people don't have any problem with alt. pulley hitting the steering box.. I wanted to avoid this & went Vette.
B) www.pacePerformance.com now has upper AC mount too. They have real good prices on sertintine drive systems. with & without AC. The F-body style drive is now referred to as the Caddy CTS-v
I will skip questions I have no idea of.
6) You can use your stock radiator and run aftermarker fans. I'd try Summit or Jegs economy dual fans. When people keep the EFI, they can run 4th gen F-body radiator & hoses and have the ECM contoll the fans.
9) If you use 1" set-back mounts, a 98-02 Fbody oilpan kit(tray,pickup etc...) works perfectly.
good luck,
Jim
07-05-2010, 11:41 AM
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Jim,
Thanks for the info. If I use the 1" setbacks will that mean I would then have to have my driveshaft shortened to make up the difference on the other end?
Thanks for the info. If I use the 1" setbacks will that mean I would then have to have my driveshaft shortened to make up the difference on the other end?
07-05-2010, 07:32 PM
#4
drive shaft........ I am not positive. I would think its a poss. I believe people prefer the setback plates so you can use the stock F-body oil pan. But I am not positive. If you read this thread https://ls1tech.com/forums/conversio...-lsx-swap.html there is some talk about the F-body alternator hitting the pitman arm. I don't recall ever reading that before, so that's new to me. The link I gave is a good read. Very clean job and props to Gary.
Sorry for not having a more diffinative (sp) answers for your questions
, but I am in the same boat as you.
Jim
Sorry for not having a more diffinative (sp) answers for your questions
, but I am in the same boat as you. Jim
07-05-2010, 07:56 PM
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3. the pacesetters can work with some modification, search for Marktanium's build thread, he gives a good description what was needed (just bending I believe).
If you haven't been there yet, nastyz28.com has some very good info for 2nd gen swaps.
If you haven't been there yet, nastyz28.com has some very good info for 2nd gen swaps.
07-05-2010, 11:10 PM
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1. Motor mounts. I plan on using a set of adapter engine mounts, no set back. Will that will put the engine in the factory location or do I need to use the type that set the motor back an inch?
Edelbrock motor mounts put the engine in the stock location. Their headers are a direct fit with no mods. They also claim no mods to the drive shaft. I'd call them and ask about the 200R4 application. Be careful mixing and matching headers with motor mounts, most combos don't work without modifications.
3. Headers. Can I get away with using a set of headers like the Pacesetters or will I need to use the Edelbrock or Hedman headers that are designed specifically for the swap? Also what would be the difference between the mid and long tubes? Would it make a differernce since Im not doing alot of mods to the engine?
The Edelbrock Stainless Steel headers are the way to go. Best bang for the buck. Long tubes will give you 10-15 more horsepower over shorties.
4. Fuel Pump and carb, I plan on using an electric fuel pump with an internal regulator. Since I'm running a carb, can I use the existing fuel lines and just mount the pump at the rear of the car near the tank or will I have to rework the fuel lines completley? Do I need a return line and if so, how would I do a return line, would it come off of the carb or the electric fuel pump? Would I need to wire a relay to support the electric fuel pump? Also what size would be best 600- 650 cfm EDL or Holley?
A carb requires only 5-10 psi, You should be able to get an inline pump that doen't require a regulator or return line. Your existing 3/8 fuel line should be okay for an under 400 hp application.
5. Power steering, I would need to have some type of adapter to hook the high pressure line from the pump to the steering gear box right? I read that there is a difference in the way the hook up between the different years.
Detroit Speed and Engineering sells a high pressure port to AN andapter.
6. Cooling. I can use the regular radiator from the 81 or use an 3rd GEN Fbody radiator and hoses, I would need to use the electric fans or use an aftermarket fan. If I go aftermarket, is there a specific size I need to stay with to support the system ie 12 inch or larger? Also I would need to run a relay to adequaltey supply power to the electric fan, is that correct?
You can use your stock radiator. You can buy fan kits from most maufacturers. Summit or Jegs is your best bet. Measure your core and pick the largest fan that will fit. There are no stock hoses that fit. Make a template from cardboard and go to NAPA and see what comes closest to matching.
9. Oil pan. I would need to get an GEN III F-body oil pan along with the windage tray, dipstick tube etc to get it to fit into the Camaro.
Gen 4 F-body.......
98-03 F-Body oil pan (kit with bolts/gasket), 12598151, $159.38
98-03 F-Body windage tray oil deflector, 12558253, $14.49
98-03 F-Body oil pump pick-up w/screen, 12558251, $27.81
98-03 F-Body dipstick, 12551581, $8.76
98-03 F-Body dipstick tube w/o-ring seal, 12551577, $5.72
Edelbrock motor mounts put the engine in the stock location. Their headers are a direct fit with no mods. They also claim no mods to the drive shaft. I'd call them and ask about the 200R4 application. Be careful mixing and matching headers with motor mounts, most combos don't work without modifications.
3. Headers. Can I get away with using a set of headers like the Pacesetters or will I need to use the Edelbrock or Hedman headers that are designed specifically for the swap? Also what would be the difference between the mid and long tubes? Would it make a differernce since Im not doing alot of mods to the engine?
The Edelbrock Stainless Steel headers are the way to go. Best bang for the buck. Long tubes will give you 10-15 more horsepower over shorties.
4. Fuel Pump and carb, I plan on using an electric fuel pump with an internal regulator. Since I'm running a carb, can I use the existing fuel lines and just mount the pump at the rear of the car near the tank or will I have to rework the fuel lines completley? Do I need a return line and if so, how would I do a return line, would it come off of the carb or the electric fuel pump? Would I need to wire a relay to support the electric fuel pump? Also what size would be best 600- 650 cfm EDL or Holley?
A carb requires only 5-10 psi, You should be able to get an inline pump that doen't require a regulator or return line. Your existing 3/8 fuel line should be okay for an under 400 hp application.
5. Power steering, I would need to have some type of adapter to hook the high pressure line from the pump to the steering gear box right? I read that there is a difference in the way the hook up between the different years.
Detroit Speed and Engineering sells a high pressure port to AN andapter.
6. Cooling. I can use the regular radiator from the 81 or use an 3rd GEN Fbody radiator and hoses, I would need to use the electric fans or use an aftermarket fan. If I go aftermarket, is there a specific size I need to stay with to support the system ie 12 inch or larger? Also I would need to run a relay to adequaltey supply power to the electric fan, is that correct?
You can use your stock radiator. You can buy fan kits from most maufacturers. Summit or Jegs is your best bet. Measure your core and pick the largest fan that will fit. There are no stock hoses that fit. Make a template from cardboard and go to NAPA and see what comes closest to matching.
9. Oil pan. I would need to get an GEN III F-body oil pan along with the windage tray, dipstick tube etc to get it to fit into the Camaro.
Gen 4 F-body.......
98-03 F-Body oil pan (kit with bolts/gasket), 12598151, $159.38
98-03 F-Body windage tray oil deflector, 12558253, $14.49
98-03 F-Body oil pump pick-up w/screen, 12558251, $27.81
98-03 F-Body dipstick, 12551581, $8.76
98-03 F-Body dipstick tube w/o-ring seal, 12551577, $5.72
07-06-2010, 01:00 AM
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Shovelhead 73,
Great info, thanks alot. I saw the EDL mounts and headers under a couple of others posts, good point about being careful with the mixing and matching.
Thanks for the other info, confirms what I was thinking, Im trying to give myself an idea of what this would cost so Im trying to capture as much of what parts are needed and the cost as close to whats realistic as possible (then triple it
)!!
Great info, thanks alot. I saw the EDL mounts and headers under a couple of others posts, good point about being careful with the mixing and matching.
Thanks for the other info, confirms what I was thinking, Im trying to give myself an idea of what this would cost so Im trying to capture as much of what parts are needed and the cost as close to whats realistic as possible (then triple it
)!! Trending Topics
07-06-2010, 12:19 PM
#8
Shovelhead 73,
good info
good info
07-09-2010, 12:04 AM
#9
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#2. I'd highly recommend you keep the EFI , it will be so much more drivable and enjoyable.
I put a 2004 GTO LS1 drivetrain in my 78Z so I'm familiar with all the swap details.
Just hit me up when you're back home on Nastyz28 , I'm Aceshigh there as well.
07-09-2010, 01:25 AM
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Aces,
It probably sounds a little crazy, Im a bit nervous about doing the wiring, getting a tank set up etc for the EFI thats why I was leaning to doing the carbd route. Ive got a PCS move coming up after I get back from Afghanistan and Im trying to figure my timeline and what I can get done in time as well as $$$. Im following your build on both sites, Im a double dipper here and on NastyZ28 as well.
It probably sounds a little crazy, Im a bit nervous about doing the wiring, getting a tank set up etc for the EFI thats why I was leaning to doing the carbd route. Ive got a PCS move coming up after I get back from Afghanistan and Im trying to figure my timeline and what I can get done in time as well as $$$. Im following your build on both sites, Im a double dipper here and on NastyZ28 as well.
