JMitch19

iTrader: (1)

This is my buddies car and we were expecting bigger numbers. I know "go to the track and see what it runs" we're not complaining, just hoping we could get some more opinions from people with more experience than us.

Specs are:
2002 Trans Am LS1 & T56 swapped into a 66 Nova
hooker shorties(probably hurting us), 2.5" dual exhaust
EPS 226/230 .598 .601 111+2
CNC's 853's w/ comp 918's
28 degree's of timing
4.11 gears

Let me know if any other info is needed.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks

Sorry the graph isn't the best. The pdf was to large to post.

*02WS6TURK*

iTrader: (13)

I'm having a hard time seeing the #'s on my computer....what were the final dyno #'s? What kind of dyno was it? What intake manifold is he running? Who tuned it? And the shorty headers are obviously going to hold back on it's full potential. Why not mids or LT's?

JMitch19

iTrader: (1)

The Car Guys tuned it.
Numbers were 360rwhp 325 rwtq average AFR was 12.9 on a Mustang dyno
Only engine mods done are what is listed, so stock tb and LS6 intake.

He is running an aftermarket front subframe on the Nova and there is zero space for running any kind of nice header. I think he is looking into having a custom set made at some point, but that will be a winter upgrade.

Fbodyjunkie06

iTrader: (10)

That sounds right for shorty headers on a mustang dyno. I guarantee he swaps to long tubes he picks up 20-25 solid rwhp. Then he'll be at 385 on a mustang dyno which is 400 all day on a dynojet if not more.

JMitch19

iTrader: (1)

Maybe we were expecting too much. My LQ9 swapped 68 camaro put down 400rwhp 380rwtq on the dynojet at Baker Engineering. I'm honestly not sure how dynojet vs. mustang dyno's normally compare.

Specs on my car are:

04 LQ9
LS6 intake ported fbody tb
hooker 1 3/4 long tubes 3" xpipe exhaust
stock 317 heads with comp 918's
228/232 .588 .574 112 cam
4.11 gears

I just figured between the EPS cam and CNC'd heads his car would put down more power than mine. As stated in the first post get them to the track and see what happens. I know, 360/325 just seemed low to me for a heads and cam LS1 no matter what kind of dyno it was.

Mainly we just wanted some opinions from others with more experience to take a look and let us know if we should be looking for a problem. Whether it be tuning or mechanical. If these numbers sound normal that is fine. Just looking to see what others think.

Patrick G

iTrader: (14)

Did you get a baseline run on the same dyno before you installed the cam? Even though this dyno reads low, it would be nice to see the gains of before vs after.

Cold Zero

iTrader: (1)

Ummmm .. I gained 15 rwhp from 1 3/4 LTs to 1 7/8 LTs along with different Y-Pipe with nice merge in my setup

I think that your headers is holding you back on the dyno !

JMitch19

iTrader: (1)

Sorry no baseline numbers. I'm not sure if this helps , but the car ran a 12.6@ 112 with a 2.0 60foot at Milan last fall before the heads and cam swap. I think the car was about 3100-3150 with driver.

If it was cam only I don't think the numbers would seem "that" low, but the fact that it is heads and cam just make it seem low. Diamond Racing is who did the heads. I've never heard of them before. Maybe the heads aren't helping matters. I was lobbying for him to do a nice set of headers before the heads but this is route he decided.

Thanks for the replies, all thoughts are welcome.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (39)

I too was disapointed with my build using an EPS cam. I still haven't seen them put down any big numbers with ported heads. They seem to do well on stock heads. Turk put down 15hp less than I did and I have TEA ported 5.3 heads.

I haven't had my car to the track yet to see what it will run yet. I know the dyno is a tool but it seems pretty common what the EPS cams put down. Now if all of these 430whp cars run low 11's at the track then that's a different story.

Jimmy P

iTrader: (177)

Maybe you are on to something here..My car with a EPS 226/234 didn't dyno that well either..
Heads/cam car, full exhaust, M6, LS6 intake and basic bolt ons, only dynoed 401 on a Dynojet..And torque seems prety low as well.
I will have dyno results with same cam, but different setup. FAST 102/102, AI 243's, and a couple more bolt ons. If car still dynos low the EPS cam is getting pulled out.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (39)

Definitely let us know how it does Jimmy. From what I hear those heads are the bee's knee's.

I don't know enough even try to figure out why they seem to dyno low. I have just noticed a trend since a lot of people have been using them.

JMitch19

iTrader: (1)

I wouldn't say that he is disappointed yet. We'll see what it does at the track. Dyno numbers aside, what do you guys think the car should pick up ET wise?

s346k

iTrader: (4)

what rear gear and tire? power seems low, esp the tq. a bolt-on m6 car would put down more than 325 wtq, even on a mustang dyno. i know dyno numbers can be altered, but not havin a baseline or pre-work dyno leaves a big question mark.

i'd look for 123+ mph out of a head/cam setup through an m6 in a 3100lb car. if it traps 118 you'll know something is wrong. if the car does trap low i'd be looking at the tune. that low tq scares me. not to mention someone who doesn't know what they're doing with a set of heads will hinder performance, as well. i have seen it first hand with my own eyes.

JMitch19

iTrader: (1)

It has 25.7 inch tall rear tires with 4.11 gears. I was talking to him tonight and it sounds like something is off with the tune. It's not idling very well. The tuner had his car for over a week. He drove the car to them with no tune so it was running "ok". After a week of waiting he told them he was just going to come and get the car. Amazingly they then said the car is finished. He showed up to pick it up and it wasn't running right. He was at their shop until 10:30 on a week night while they finished what they claimed was all done and ready to go at 3pm... I guess it's still not done.

The internet is a powerful tool. Do your research before picking a tuner. If you google his tuner you will come up with all most nothing. It takes 5-10 minutes to do a search and see if a tuner has good/bad feedback. I had TJ at Baker Engineering tune my car and I very happy with it. I tried to get my buddy to bring his car to TJ as well, but he wanted to find someone close to home. That is understandable. He lives about 1.5hrs from me. I just think if he'd have done a little research MAYBE this thread would have never had to happen

Jimmy P

iTrader: (177)

I dont want to hijact this thread anymore than I already have, so I will make it short. I had my car dyno tuned today at Speed, and with the AI heads and more bolt on parts, it made 460rwhp and real good torque. Torque was around 420 if I remember right.
Pretty good power, considering with the ported 853 heads and less bolt on mods it put down 400rwhp and 383 torque. Both setups dynoed with same EPS 226/234 cam. I will make a thread tommorow and post details and graphs. So maybe the cam isn't the issue for you guys, but the whole combo is affecting the numbers? It ended up not being the issue for me..

JMitch19

iTrader: (1)

That's good to hear. I have a feeling that this car will end up getting retuned by a different shop before he is happy with it.

JMitch19

iTrader: (1)

small update. Over the weekend I was able to get some diagnostic tools hooked up on the car. On start up the ECT is reading -24 degrees. I checked the the sensor and wiring and both are fine. I took an ohm reading from the sensor and the it should have been reading 57 degrees which was close to ambient. I'm guessing the ect table must be messed up. The car also never switched to closed loop. It stayed in open loop the entire time we were testing the car. We made about 3 20-90mph pulls on the street and peak timing was only 24.5 at wot. It was idling at 25 degrees of timing. We were told that it was at 28 degrees of total timing.

Seems to me that no tuning should have been done until the ect problem was fixed. I'm also guessing they left it in open loop because they were having trouble getting the tune right. This seems like a fairly common set up that shouldn't be to hard to tune yet they had the car over a week and it's still not right.

Any thoughts?

BLINGOLE

iTrader: (5)

Yes, yes and yes. Man i bet you can call up fasterproms (a sponsor here) and he can mail order you a tune better then what those guys did hands on. Your pcm is probably flipping out with trying to get your fuel trims right when it thinks your engine is a block of ice. If you hook that scanner back up look at your short term and long term fuel trims its prob all over the place. It should be throwing dtc's aint it?


heres my advice,
find a new tuner
find a dyno jet dyno
and dont worry about the cam the specs, i think you couldve went higher on duration but it looks great for a mix of street duty. it'll make good power dont worry.


short story btw, i made 564 on a dyno jet two weeks ago and two days ago i was on a mustang dyno at a free dyno day and it said i made 370.... but yet i run low tens. whatever i wont be caught next to one of those pieces of junk again.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (39)

Crap. If you made 370 on a stang dyno I'd make like 230.

OP glad you are figuring stuff out on your car. My interior has been out of the car going on a month now and haven't even started it.

JMitch19

iTrader: (1)

Once the car gets up to temp the ect is reading within about 5-10 degrees of the autometer temp gauge on the dash. I smokes like no other on a old start. Once it's up to temp the fuel trims don't look to bad.

Funny thing happened this weekend. We were at the St. Ignace car show with the car and we ran into the salesman for the shop that did the tuning. Weird thing was he was working in the GM performance division tent. We told him about the problems and he said they want a chance to make it right. My buddy figures it's not going to cost him anything to give them a chance. I don't think they can do a worse job. If it's still not right he told them that he is just going to his credit card company for a charge back. We'll see what happens. He's not that worried about dyno numbers. The car just needs to run right and run the numbers it should at the track and he will be happy.