Floorman279

iTrader: (11)

ive been saving for a long *** time now for a gen 4 motor for my 2000 ss........got the suspension and rear taken care of, and now i have about 18000-20000 set aside for just motor......i have the clutch and trans done as well.......so im one of those guys who wants to do things once and once only.....with that being said, i know an ls3 black label strokerfrom them can be had for 15000 which is great with me.......i was looking for right around 600 rwhp Naturally, with a huge cam of course. or i could spend the extra 1000 and get there ls7 motor.....what im wondering is is it worth it torque wise for the extra 10 cubes or so and get the ls7ness? whats odd as well is that it looks like the black label ls3 makes better and a much smoother torque curve down low then the spikey ls7 curve? thoughts and opinions please

Gray86hatch

iTrader: (83)

Go with a ERL short block and get a set of Black lables to go on it.

Work with whoever is going to do the cam to pick the rest of the parts.

Tim

COPO9560

For the amount of money you are going to spend, I'd go for LS7 based heads - capable of more power in the long run.

My only concern would be durability of the LS7 block over the long run - lots of less than great stories on how much stress they can take, especially if power adders are in your future.

The suggestion of running an ERL sleeved block is a good one - you could even wet sleeve your existing LS1 block for that matter and have a very solid bottom end.

redtan

iTrader: (5)

Definitely go with a sleeved LS3 based 427 motor vs. a stock LS7 motor. Much more reliable and will be able to take a shot of nitrous or boost if you ever plan for more power down the road.

95batmobile

iTrader: (2)

I would talk to some vendors on the sight.. i feel like for that much money texas speed would be able to build you a nasty motor

NHRATA01

iTrader: (10)

An ERL sleeved motor isn't cheap though. He could do an LS7-based motor, and if he really does stay N/A it will last him years. The issue with the LS7's is the sleeves cracking under detonation, which only really becomes a problem with a power adder as they don't hold up well to tons of detonation.

That said he could probably fund an ERL 427 with as much as he has aside and sleep better. Just IMHO a sleeved ERL motor seems like overkill for anything under 8-900hp and up, as his setup (he mentioned clutch so I assume a 6-speed) seems more as street or street/strip than full race.

Curious to see where the build goes, I'm kind of in the same boat and was leaning towards an LS7-based 440cid. Such a shortblock would be ~$6600 whereas an ERL sleeved bare block is $5K IIRC.

redtan

iTrader: (5)

How much can is an LS7 block? If it's anywhere under $3000 then yeah it would be cheaper than a sleeved GenIII/GenIV block.

ERL Performance

I have several here but unfortunately they all have cracked cans. The nice thing about going with the sleeved block here is that he can bore this thing out to a 4.155 or even out to a 4.185 so he can get the most out of going naturally aspirated. If he does that with the stock OEM cast iron sleeves in an LS7 and hones those out more he weakens the cylinders quit a bit because they are made of cast iron.

ERL Performance

Our Dry Sleeve blocks are much cheaper than 5k. The bare block that is being referred to is our top of the line ERL Superdeck 1 6 bolt block with ERL providing the core block.
Our Dry Sleeve block is only 2250.00 and that includes the sleeving, cylinder hone, align hone and ARP main studs.
We have Dry Sleeved short blocks that are balanced, blueprinted and fully assembled short blocks for 5500.00 with customer supplying the core block for exchange.

KCS

iTrader: (20)

This is what I would do, 454ci aluminum shortblock with aftermarket LS7 style heads.

slippi84

iTrader: (4)

No stay with a 427 I have a LSX 454 and the cylinder walls are too thin with that big of a motor you limit yourself. A good LS7 427 with lS7 heads will take you to the moon

KCS

iTrader: (20)

Unless he is building something closer to an Outlaw 10.5 car, the bore shouldn't "limit" him. If that were the case, a lower displacement LSX block would probably be more appropriate. For everything else that isn't trying to cram 40psi or 800hp worth of nitrous into the intake, I'd say a 454ci ERL shortblock is hard to beat.

Floorman279

iTrader: (11)

sorry, not getting into it but im leaning away from tsp, sorry guys

Gray86hatch

iTrader: (83)

With a sleaved block going big bore is not a issue.

If I build a new one it will be a erl 454. You can't argue with CI when trying to make power NA.

Tim

Floorman279

iTrader: (11)

wait, im unfamiliar with sleeving and strength.....so are the benefits of sleeeving added strength and making the bores a little wider? so again, my goals are a badass motor, mostly street with minimal street use....looking for 600 rwhp........i dont think i will every spray or forced induction, but you know what, you never know......so trying to keep the price of the motor under 17-18000, whats the best way of doing this? so a sleeved ls7 is an awesome and one of the most durable ways to go?

KCS

iTrader: (20)

Depending on the sleeve, you can achieve more strength, larger bores, and larger strokes. Again, if it were me I would do a 4.125" bore with a 4.250" stroke for 454ci. Brian Tooley (google who he is) did this with a set of TFS 245cc cathedral port heads on a 454ci ERL shortblock and made 705hp at the flywheel.

ERL Performance

Because of our ductile iron sleeves that we use we are able to bore much larger without sacrificing the strength of the sleeve.
The best configuration would be to go with our 4.185 bore and 4.125 stroke Callies crank. To me this is the best 454 ci combination because with the 4.125 stroke and our longer sleeve length, you keep more of the piston skirt up inside of the cylinder which is key to the longevity of the engine.
The big benefit though is that you can go much larger on bore size with our sleeved blocks because of our ductile iron sleeves and not have to worry about them cracking.