3-4 clutch stack need some info
11-26-2012, 02:45 AM
#1
10 Second Club
Thread Starter
3-4 clutch stack need some info The 3-4 in my transmission went out and need some help.After reading a couple of treads,I've decided to to go with the BW high energy frictions with the kolene steels,or maybe the stock steels.My question if using the stock apply plate,snap ring etc.How many frictions and steels do I need,trying to go with the 8 setup?From what I can see there's the .082 and .062 and the steels are .076 in thickness.
8 .082 BW HE frictions
7 or 8 Steels assuming the thicker .076
8 .082 BW HE frictions
7 or 8 Steels assuming the thicker .076
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unclecowboy (12-03-2023)
11-26-2012, 04:39 PM
#2
Moderator
Check out these similar threads:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...questions.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...gear-gone.html
Here are my measurements for 7 or 8 frictions:
These were made with Raybestos GPZ frictions, Borg Warner Hi-Energy can be substituted, but see below.
7 Friction with GPZ105
.215 Apply (GM #24217451; Transtar #74141C)
5x .066 Friction GPZ105
2x .078 Friction GPZ100
6x .097 Plain Steel (Transtar part #74120D)
.157 Backing (GM #24217450)
.092 Snap ring (stock) (GM #08663636)
==> .047 dry ==> .040 wet clearance
8 Friction with GPZ105
.215 Apply (GM #24217451; Transtar #74141C)
8x .066 Friction GPZ105
7x .078 Kolene steel (TranStar part #74120AK)
.157 Backing (GM #24212459; TranStar #74140JC)
.092 Snap ring (stock) (GM #08663636)
==> .041 dry ==> .033 wet clearance
Borg Warner Hi-Energy can be used in place of the GPZ frictions; however since I measure them at .065, clearances might be a bit higher.
To tighten clearances, consider the .223 Apply plate. (GM #08685044; Transtar #74141B)
You can purchase a .215 or .223 apply plate, a .145 and .157 backing plate. (Also some other sizes.) Some kits like the Z-pak use a thin .060 snap ring, but I don't trust that.
By using different apply and backing plates, and different thicknesses of the same frictions, you can get the desired clearance.
You might want to pick one of my two combos above. If needed you can get different apply and backing plates from the dealer very quickly.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...questions.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...gear-gone.html
Here are my measurements for 7 or 8 frictions:
These were made with Raybestos GPZ frictions, Borg Warner Hi-Energy can be substituted, but see below.
7 Friction with GPZ105
.215 Apply (GM #24217451; Transtar #74141C)
5x .066 Friction GPZ105
2x .078 Friction GPZ100
6x .097 Plain Steel (Transtar part #74120D)
.157 Backing (GM #24217450)
.092 Snap ring (stock) (GM #08663636)
==> .047 dry ==> .040 wet clearance
8 Friction with GPZ105
.215 Apply (GM #24217451; Transtar #74141C)
8x .066 Friction GPZ105
7x .078 Kolene steel (TranStar part #74120AK)
.157 Backing (GM #24212459; TranStar #74140JC)
.092 Snap ring (stock) (GM #08663636)
==> .041 dry ==> .033 wet clearance
Borg Warner Hi-Energy can be used in place of the GPZ frictions; however since I measure them at .065, clearances might be a bit higher.
To tighten clearances, consider the .223 Apply plate. (GM #08685044; Transtar #74141B)
You can purchase a .215 or .223 apply plate, a .145 and .157 backing plate. (Also some other sizes.) Some kits like the Z-pak use a thin .060 snap ring, but I don't trust that.
By using different apply and backing plates, and different thicknesses of the same frictions, you can get the desired clearance.
You might want to pick one of my two combos above. If needed you can get different apply and backing plates from the dealer very quickly.
Last edited by mrvedit; 11-08-2013 at 07:23 PM. Reason: Updated part numbers and measured thicknesses
The following 2 users liked this post by mrvedit:
matermark (06-16-2021), unclecowboy (12-03-2023)
11-26-2012, 05:26 PM
#3
10 Second Club
Thread Starter
Check out these similar threads:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...questions.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...gear-gone.html
Here are my measurements for 7 or 8 frictions:
7 Friction with GPZ105:
.215 Apply
5x .066 Friction GPZ105
2x .079 Friction GPZ100
6x .098 Plain Steel
.145 Backing
.092 Snap ring (stock)
==> .045 dry clearance (.040 wet)
8 Friction with GPZ105 (or with Raybestos 558305)
.215 Apply
8x .066 Friction GPZ105
7x .078 Kolene steel (TranStar part #74120AK)
.157 Backing
.092 Snap ring (stock)
==> .038 to 0.040 dry clearance
Borg Warner Hi-Energy come in .080 and .067 which is close enough to the GPZ frictions above. Frictions will typically measure about .002 more than their advertised thickness, depending upon manufacturer.
You can purchase a .215 or .221 apply plate, a .145 and .157 backing plate. (Also some other sizes.) Some kits like the Z-pak use a thin .060 snap ring, but I don't trust that.
By using different apply and backing plates, and different thicknesses of the same frictions, you can get the desired clearance.
However, there is no way that 8x .080 frictions will fit into a stock drum.
You might want to pick one of my two combos above. If needed you can get different apply and backing plates for the dealer very quickly. I have most of the part numbers.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...questions.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...gear-gone.html
Here are my measurements for 7 or 8 frictions:
7 Friction with GPZ105:
.215 Apply
5x .066 Friction GPZ105
2x .079 Friction GPZ100
6x .098 Plain Steel
.145 Backing
.092 Snap ring (stock)
==> .045 dry clearance (.040 wet)
8 Friction with GPZ105 (or with Raybestos 558305)
.215 Apply
8x .066 Friction GPZ105
7x .078 Kolene steel (TranStar part #74120AK)
.157 Backing
.092 Snap ring (stock)
==> .038 to 0.040 dry clearance
Borg Warner Hi-Energy come in .080 and .067 which is close enough to the GPZ frictions above. Frictions will typically measure about .002 more than their advertised thickness, depending upon manufacturer.
You can purchase a .215 or .221 apply plate, a .145 and .157 backing plate. (Also some other sizes.) Some kits like the Z-pak use a thin .060 snap ring, but I don't trust that.
By using different apply and backing plates, and different thicknesses of the same frictions, you can get the desired clearance.
However, there is no way that 8x .080 frictions will fit into a stock drum.
You might want to pick one of my two combos above. If needed you can get different apply and backing plates for the dealer very quickly. I have most of the part numbers.
Thanks,Mrvedit,from what ive I read from other posts is that you can use a combination of the thick and thicker bw high energy frictions and steels.I would like to try those frictions,Ive used the zpack clutches before didn't really any complaints.
Do you know the stock apply plate,back plate thickness,snap ring specs,I had a book but cant find it.
The following users liked this post:
unclecowboy (12-03-2023)
11-26-2012, 05:31 PM
#4
10 Second Club
Thread Starter
Malibutwins
I use 10 (.065") Borg-Warner 4L65E Hi-Energy clutches, and 9 (.060") Kolene steels, 1 (.096" or .106") top pressure plate, 1 (.128") bottom pressure plate, and a (.062") snap ring. Set clutch clearance at .022"-.035". Dana turned me on to this setup and it works great!!!!!
This is malibutwins setup
I use 10 (.065") Borg-Warner 4L65E Hi-Energy clutches, and 9 (.060") Kolene steels, 1 (.096" or .106") top pressure plate, 1 (.128") bottom pressure plate, and a (.062") snap ring. Set clutch clearance at .022"-.035". Dana turned me on to this setup and it works great!!!!!
This is malibutwins setup
11-26-2012, 06:44 PM
#5
Moderator
Thanks,Mrvedit,from what ive I read from other posts is that you can use a combination of the thick and thicker bw high energy frictions and steels.I would like to try those frictions,Ive used the zpack clutches before didn't really any complaints.
Do you know the stock apply plate,back plate thickness,snap ring specs,I had a book but cant find it.
Do you know the stock apply plate,back plate thickness,snap ring specs,I had a book but cant find it.
.065 Hi-Energy Frictions (x 7)
.097 Steels (x 6)
.218 Apply Plate
.194 Backing Plate
.092 Snap Ring
This gives you a .065 (or so) clearance which most performance builders would say it too much.
There is no "best" combo or everyone would be using it. You may have noticed that I started a thread on Sonnax's solution using a custom, and very expensive, input drum:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic...-4-clutch.html
11-28-2012, 09:05 PM
#6
I use 8 .078" - .082" thickness Borg Warner Hi-Energy clutches all the time in my Street/Strip 3-4 clutch setup. In the 4L60E I use the stock .220" apply plate and a mix of .060" & .076" Kolene steels with a .128" top plate and the .062" snap ring. I try for .020" - .035" clutch clearance.
