superbee_68

iTrader: (3)

I am working on a buddies 99 ss camaro trying to get it all put back together. All of the electrics were working fine on the car. Then one day out of nowhere, everything went to hell all at the same time. The odometer, speedo, and tach are completely dead but the fuel gauge, oil pressure, and battery gauge still work. The alarm will arm and disarm with the horn beep and all but the door locks do not actuate. The turn signals from the stalk on the column will not work but the hazards do. The passenger side window will roll down, but the driver side is completely dead. When you turn the ignition on, there is a clicking sound coming from behind the radio. Sometimes when you turn the ignition on, there is a buzzing (definately not normal) coming from the gauges or behind the gauges that will go away if you cycle the key again. Does not make the buzzing or clicking consistently. Also, now the dome light is stuck on all the time and is draining the battery.

The car runs and drives fine, just has crazy electrical problems.

What I have done so far:
1. check the ground on the connector going to the gauges and it was good
2. check the power accessorie fuse, its supposed to be a 15 amp but there was a good unblown 25 amp stuck in there, so I swapped the 25 amp for a 15 amp and obviously still did nothing
3. got a auto-headlight (drl) module from a junkyard car and swapped it out, its the black module behind the dash stuck to the hvac tubing, and now the clicking that was behind the radio is gone but nothing else is fixed. The car will still make a buzzing sound from the gauges or behind the gauges.
4. pulled the bcm and checked the main relay for cracked solder joints, didn't find any but resoldered the joints anyway just to be sure, fixed nothing.
5. bought a replacement cluster that was supposedly from a 99, but when I popped it in the car the temperature gauge started smoking, it happened immediately with the ignition off, so I quickly removed the cluster. The power accessorie fuse was still good after cooking my new gauges. Turns out it's probably from a 98 and they are different. I still have not located another good 99-02 cluster or have been able to try one.
6. checked the dimmer wheel to make sure it was not on the dome light on position and it was not.

I am literally about to set the car on fire and be done with it. Obviously the next step is to try another set of the correct gauges. But I still don't think that will fix the turn signals, dome light being stuck on, or door locks. I know there could be multiple problems here but it just seems odd that it all happened at the same time.

Any ideas anyone? Anyone have a guage cluster for a 99-02 V8 camaro?

VetNutJim

Don't have much useful info for ya but I'll give it the ol'college try....

There are two 'modules' that control most everything.
AFAIK there is the PCM or Powertrain Control Module, it uses all the engine sensors for inputs and controls the timing and fuel and transmission.

The BCM or Body Control Module controls all the electrical equipment in the car or 'body'.
It also contains the security circuitry and light control circuitry.
In addition the BCM processes as inputs the door switches, the rear deck lid switch, the light control and light dimmer switch, etc.
It runs the gauges and the TC (Traction Control) and processes signals from the ECS (Electronic Speed Sensor) so it is closely 'coupled' to the speedometer plus the tachometer. The BCM controls the IP (Instrument Panel) lights, etc., including the odometer and the trip meter.
Add the door locks to BCM duties as well.

So to have multiple problems there are only THREE items involved and the fix is the replacement or repair of one, two or three items, ie; it may take a combination of the 3 to get'er done.
Here are the 'Big Three' involved with your battle:
(1) BCM- Body Control Module
(2) IP- Instrument Panel
(3) Wiring harness with any ancillary connectors related to the harness

The wiring harness/connectors is usually service/repaired.
The PCM or BCM is in most cases R&Red (Removed and Replaced)
Unless you buy a KNOWN GOOD module you may as well just cross all your fingers, toes, arms and legs when you replace either if they are used parts. It's a 50/50 shot and a defect in EITHER can cause the OTHER to go up in smoke in milliseconds soon as power is applied or it may not even take turning on the key before maximum smoke is obtained.

BTW.... ALWAYS disconnect the battery when changing out the PCM or BCM !!! I'd say disconnect the battery if you are just doing continuity testing on the wire harness. If not you're likely to burn up the PCM,BCM or your multi-meter.

Don't apply power (connect the battery) until you have completed the test procedures as explained in the FSM. Then still hold your mouth right when you re-connect the battery.
You did good on the 25 amp fuse replacement with the PROPER value. Never, NEVER, N-E-V-E-R use a fuse larger than called for.
The engineers ALREADY over-fused by 50% so why would someone go larger in amperage unless they haven't got a clue as to what they are doing.
The days of jumping fuses/over-fusing and looking for where the smoke comes from are way,way OVAH !!!
That's just a good way to guarantee having to do a LOT more work (and spend LOTS MO-MO-NAY) than if you'd played the game right in the first place.

Don't burn it down Brother. You'll get it going and when you do, you'll feel like Von Einstein. So hang in there and don't let it beat you.

The REAL KEY.... drum roll please..... to getting this one in the bag is to get'yer hands on the FSM and use the troubleshooting charts to track down where the problem(s) is/are. IMHO you've gone way farther than most folks would have gotten without having the FSM.

Good job so far, now you have to get ready to take it to the next level so get ready to ramp up your target practice, er, trouble-shooting techniques.

You may have the FSM FAIK but if not you may as well blow the bucks and get one. Spend a few hours each day going thru that FSM, make notes on what you need to test, place markers on the pages with the test procedures and..... don't worry about fixing the vehicle until you've done all this FIRST. Then when you've got a good handle on 'what were they thinking' when 'they' designed the system in the first place, take your books and your multi-meter and your scan tool and go wrestle it to the ground, buy the correct part(s) and fix that surker.

Work on a F-O-R-D if you truly want to wonder 'what were they thinking' then you'll appreciate the fact it's GM born and bred.
GM designs things like I'd do it if I was an engineer on the design team. While we may not understand it when we first start working on a new system, once you do understand it, you'll say; "Oh yeah, I see. Yep, I would have done it JUST LIKE THIS if I'd built the thing myself."
Plus typically GM uses quality parts like connectors, modules, switches and sensors.

That may be why I'm Chevy to the core, for life.

That's a quick off the top of my head description, there's much more but it just isn't at the top of my head right now.

I have a 98 Z28.
Wonder why there would be such a huge change from 98 to 99 related to the instrument panel.
Probably to foil our efforts to fix things.

Do you know for sure the IP you got was for a 98 model year?
If so and if you can't use the 98 IP I may be interested in it if the prices is right.

It's toast anyway so what would you want for it if you were going to dispose of it?

PS: You 'may' need to write down the radio security code but on second thought... you've got an aftermarket rajo so don't worry 'bout that.
PSS: When you take on these projects for a buddy..... know this..... MANY people have probably already been beaten to a pulp by this electrical/electronic issue.
Most of them probably made a simple repair MUCH more difficult by damaging things thru LOK (Lack of Knowledge)
You've heard that "Knowledge or Education is EXPENSIVE ????
Well, the LACK of KNOWLEDGE is MUCH,MUCH, MUCH * MUCH M-0-R-E EXPENSIVE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Projects for buddies or friends are ALWAYS at least 100 to 1,000 times more complex than things you'll fix for yourself or repairs for MO-NAY in your pocket. As they say: "Mark My Words" and "Write It On The Wall".
A bud's project is ALWAYS going to kick your rumpus. And it always STARTS off as just a 'simple', 'little' problem.

PSSSSS: There is NO substitute for the "F"SM. No other 'SM' has the comprehensive data as does the "F"SM.
Not Mr. Haney or that cold Mr. CHilton. Get the "F"SM. Use the "F"SM. These cars are too complex to try and play with half a deck.
The "F"SM gives you what you need as far as information is concerned. Consider it like that nice set of wrenches you bought yourself for CHristmas. You wouldn't be trying to do this job with a set of vise-grips, electrical tape and phillips screwdriver.
The "F"SM is the most important tool to have AND... it's first tool to pick up, even BEFORE you open the hood.

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

The BCM does contain the security circuitry (both VATS and the optional alarm system) and some light control circuitry - specifically the interior courtesy lights (dome and mirror).

It does process the door switches and power locks (if equipped), as well as the hatch switch and release mechanism. It does not have any connection to the exterior lights or dash dimmer other than through a relay to flash the parking lights upon alarm activation.

It does not run the gauges nor the traction control (TCS in Firebirds, ASR in Camaros). In fact, it is not connected to either of those except for controlling some of the warning lights in the instrument cluster (seat belt, security, etc.).

It does not process signals from the VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor) and is not connected to the speedometer or tachometer in any way (both of those functions are controlled by the PCM). Similarly, it is not related to the odometer or trip meter - those are both functions of the instrument cluster itself.

There is no module involved in the instrument panel/dash lighting. That is controlled by the rheostat dimmer dial at the headlight switch. In fact, there isn't even a relay in the lighting system except for inside the DRL module to control the automatic headlights on Camaros.

Actually, you can't replace the BCM with a used one unless you also do a VATS bypass. A BCM can only be programmed to match the ignition key once when new. After that it will always look for that same resistor value from the ignition key before allowing the car to start. You have only a 1 in 15 chance that a used BCM might have been programmed with the same resistance as your existing key so a bypass will likely be necessary. The problem is that you won't know which of the 15 resistor values will match the used BCM so you have to buy a bunch of resistors to try every combination - not expensive but time consuming.

Great advice! I remember an old electronics expression... "Electronics have a limited amount of smoke in them - once you let the smoke out they don't work anymore."

Oh BTW, after the first PS, the next one is PPS and the following is PPPS. It stands for "post script", "post post script", etc. ( ...just messin' with ya )

superbee_68

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for the overwhelming response guys, I really appreciate the help. Here is how I will continue foward:
1. obtain FSM
2. read through FSM
3. set car on fire...just kidding
4. I will check door pins and hatch to explain dome light, maybe one is stuck.
5. I will try the instument panel first to fix the odometer, tach, and speedo after checking the wiring to ensure there are no problems there first
6. I will try swapping in a good BCM if problems still exist
7. This is all after reading the FSM to make sure I am going the right direction

superbee_68

iTrader: (3)

To the left is the 98 guage cluster (instument panel) I believe and to the right is the 99. If you look close you can see 9-98 written on the top right of it. The main difference is the number of pins on the temperature gauge. The cluster on the left has four pins where the one on the right only has three pins. The temperature gauge is what started smoking just a bit when plugged in. Just trying to spread the info so others can learn from my mistakes.

WhiteBird00

iTrader: (4)

Yes there is a difference in the temperature gauge between '98 and '99. They changed the gauge in '99 to be buffered and become essentially an idiot light - it goes up to mid-range and stays there regardless of variations in temp as long as the car isn't overheating. GM did that because they were getting lots of customer warranty requests for "fluctuating" temperature gauges (variations in normal operation).

Savy 1

I have a 2000 SS and the speedo does not work,it will peg and then zero when I pull #7 fuse and I have tried another cluster from my 99 Z28. Replaced the sensor in the trans (6 speed) and can see speed on a scan tool. Is it a PCM issue ? Also if I leave #7 fuse in the battery will drain in 3-4 days. I disconect the radio and that solves the drain problem so I used the radio from the 99 Z and that did not stop the batter drain. Could the radio security be telling something else to stay on and drain the battery ? I am lost and need some direction please. TY in advance