Ready to order my new rear end but?
12-26-2013, 10:08 AM
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Ready to order my new rear end but? so finally got my funds ready to order a new rear end for my 02 z28 a4. I have narrowed it down the the S60 or Strange 12 bolt. I would like the input of owners that actually have either one of these rears installed in their car, the pros the cons any issues any input would help me finally decide 
12-26-2013, 10:29 AM
#2
The S60 is great and has no down side, fits with no problems just like the 10 bolt. People say "it's heavy", it weighs 15lbs more than a 9 inch......thats equal to alittle more than 2 gallons of gas. Both Carl at CRP and Bob at BruteSpeed do not recommend the 12 bolt for torque arm suspension cars, read up about it on BruteSpeeds web site.
Good Luck with your choice.
Good Luck with your choice.
Last edited by guppymech; 12-26-2013 at 02:51 PM.
12-26-2013, 10:33 AM
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The S60 is great and has no down side, fits with no problems just like the 10 bolt. People say "it's heavy", it weighs 15lbs more than a 9 inch......thats equal to alittle more than 2 gallons of gas. Both Carl at CRP and Bob at BruteSpeed do not recommend the 12 bolt for torque arm suspension cars, read up about it on BruteSpeeds web site.
Good Luck with your choice.
Good Luck with your choice.
12-26-2013, 11:08 AM
#5
Our torque arm can be mounted to a 12 bolt rear. We also guarantee the lowest price on all of our parts, including the s60. There are many ways to be certain you are getting the right rear end for your budget and application. Give us a call we would be happy to speak with you.
12-26-2013, 12:49 PM
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The 12 bolt gets a bad rap, and I bet most who talk **** are internet racers who have never owned or likely even seen one in person. First, its a great rear end. Tons of advantages overall when you look at the whole package. It has a nice aftermarket following, so choices are abundant for different centers, axles, bearings, covers, etc. Overall size is good which gives you more room for exhaust and such. It can and will fit like stock. It has less parasitic drag then a 9 inch or an s60. The ring gear is still 8.875, which is very close to a 9 inch just without a pinion support. Casting makes all the difference. All 12 bolts are not created equal. They are BRAND NEW and the case is designed by their respective company. Meaning a strange housing is unique to their rear end. Lots of people buy Moser, and their casting differs. One thing they did different is run short torque arm bolts. A strange runs through bolts just like stock. For those saying a few hard launches causes noise, well that has not been my experience with my strange. Someone running a Moser casting, could be, I can't say for sure. Don't let the internet know-it-alls fill your head with BS. Here's some reading material, proving I put my money where my mouth is:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/gears-axl...t-install.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/gears-axl...t-install.html
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12-26-2013, 10:33 PM
#8
i went with an s60 last year. here's what i experienced.
- it's heavy compared to the oem 10-bolt. i can pick up the oem axle and walk around with it. the s60 i had to get into a dead lift position to lift just one side. I was able to install the thing myself in my garage with front of car on ramps and rear of car on jack stands. and use a couple of jacks and a floor dolly to maneuver the s60 and get it hanging on the shocks. if you're not a strong person then beware if you're doing the install yourself, don't get hurt.
- you will need to hammer the tunnel of the car to gain clearance where the torque arm mounts to the axle because it will most likely make contact then tear a hole in the body of the car. i used an umi adjustable torque arm and had to orientate the bolts so things would work, along with cutting the umi mount on the axle to fit and clear which is sort of documented in the forum. so i would say an s60 is NOT a "simple" drop-in install, you do have to modify a few things especially if you use aftermarket lca's and torque arm and stuff. maybe with the stock oem torque arm on the s60 it's not a problem, i don't know i never bothered to test fit that. i would bet you would run into similar issues with any aftermarket axle since it's most likely larger, the s60 being the largest with a 9.75" ring gear i assume would be the worst at fitting. but it fits and looking back at what i went through don't really count the modification that was needed as a con.
- i got the bmr lca relocation brackets on my s60, and i needed to cut apart the oem e-brake brackets to get them to fit on the s60 with brm lca-relocation brackets already welded on.
- also using umi adj. lca's. with my stock oem lca's on i noticed my rear wheels sit slightly aft in the wheel well. it could have been that way with the oem 10-bolt, i don't think i ever thought to look specifically at that. but i did after the s60 install with the oem lca's installed. using the umi adjustable i set them to about 1/4" shorter. i also ended up having the over axle exhaust pipe make contact with the axle, most likely because i had the entire exhaust out of the car and did not reinstall exactly. so it took some messing with to get things to fit and always have clearance.
- the s60 has the axle bearing pressed on to the axle, hopefully that never fails because to get it off you need a monster press. and that pressed on bearing sandwiches the reluctor ring (if you have traction control) and brake backing plate and backing tin on the axle so you can't remove those without pulling the bearing off. I would say this is the biggest con about the s60.
- you will need a new drive shaft of shorter length, and you'll be going with a 1350 shaft and u-joints. so you also need to buy a new transmission slip yoke. be aware there have been problems with the trans slip yokes of various manufacturers including strange's not fitting properly. and you'll want to get the whole axle installed and the car basically ready to drive without having a drive shaft installed, then measure for length. i found that the most worry-some knowing if i screw up i'm blowing $700 on an aluminum drive shaft that don't fit. so you'll want to have all you're suspension parts (lca, tq arm, phb, shocks/springs) installed that you plan to use so you get the drive shaft length correct. also be aware if you go with certain lca's and stuff with poly ends or rod ends you might have a lot of road noise and vibration. that was one of the things i found out afterwards that while most aftermarket axles are mostly drop-in installs with little modification needed, you're usually also replacing a lot of other stuff at the same time like lca, phb, torque arm, and all that adds up to different ride quality in the end that you might not have expected and may not like.
- i have the slp bilstein suspension on my 2002 so it always sat low with little clearance between the top of the tire and the wheel well. after getting the s60 installed with 1350 drive shaft i noticed with the suspension bottomed out on the bump stops that the drive shaft just about contacted the e-brake bracket on the tunnel- which if that happens would ruin an aluminum drive shaft. so i highly recommend checking that clearance and replace axle bump stops or add spacers. i ended up using a piece of 1/8" steel plate as a spacer between the bump stop and body of the car as insurance.
as for ride quality, for the most part i can't really tell the difference between the oem 10-bolt. i was worried the extra axle weight would be noticeable but it isn't. the biggest problem i've had was using lca's with poly bushings and rod ends and getting some noise and vibration. and i had the lca's and phb (but not adj. tq arm) installed when i had the oem 10-bolt in and didn't have the noise and vibration so i'm not sure what exactly is going on. so beware if your goal is to have ride quality on the highway you might run into issues, my goal was basically to have it ride smooth and quiet like a caddy on the highway when going to work and so far have failed. i also have a little gear noise unfortunately, at 55-65 mph under load but it disappears at higher speeds. but when you drive the car hard it's fine.
- it's heavy compared to the oem 10-bolt. i can pick up the oem axle and walk around with it. the s60 i had to get into a dead lift position to lift just one side. I was able to install the thing myself in my garage with front of car on ramps and rear of car on jack stands. and use a couple of jacks and a floor dolly to maneuver the s60 and get it hanging on the shocks. if you're not a strong person then beware if you're doing the install yourself, don't get hurt.
- you will need to hammer the tunnel of the car to gain clearance where the torque arm mounts to the axle because it will most likely make contact then tear a hole in the body of the car. i used an umi adjustable torque arm and had to orientate the bolts so things would work, along with cutting the umi mount on the axle to fit and clear which is sort of documented in the forum. so i would say an s60 is NOT a "simple" drop-in install, you do have to modify a few things especially if you use aftermarket lca's and torque arm and stuff. maybe with the stock oem torque arm on the s60 it's not a problem, i don't know i never bothered to test fit that. i would bet you would run into similar issues with any aftermarket axle since it's most likely larger, the s60 being the largest with a 9.75" ring gear i assume would be the worst at fitting. but it fits and looking back at what i went through don't really count the modification that was needed as a con.
- i got the bmr lca relocation brackets on my s60, and i needed to cut apart the oem e-brake brackets to get them to fit on the s60 with brm lca-relocation brackets already welded on.
- also using umi adj. lca's. with my stock oem lca's on i noticed my rear wheels sit slightly aft in the wheel well. it could have been that way with the oem 10-bolt, i don't think i ever thought to look specifically at that. but i did after the s60 install with the oem lca's installed. using the umi adjustable i set them to about 1/4" shorter. i also ended up having the over axle exhaust pipe make contact with the axle, most likely because i had the entire exhaust out of the car and did not reinstall exactly. so it took some messing with to get things to fit and always have clearance.
- the s60 has the axle bearing pressed on to the axle, hopefully that never fails because to get it off you need a monster press. and that pressed on bearing sandwiches the reluctor ring (if you have traction control) and brake backing plate and backing tin on the axle so you can't remove those without pulling the bearing off. I would say this is the biggest con about the s60.
- you will need a new drive shaft of shorter length, and you'll be going with a 1350 shaft and u-joints. so you also need to buy a new transmission slip yoke. be aware there have been problems with the trans slip yokes of various manufacturers including strange's not fitting properly. and you'll want to get the whole axle installed and the car basically ready to drive without having a drive shaft installed, then measure for length. i found that the most worry-some knowing if i screw up i'm blowing $700 on an aluminum drive shaft that don't fit. so you'll want to have all you're suspension parts (lca, tq arm, phb, shocks/springs) installed that you plan to use so you get the drive shaft length correct. also be aware if you go with certain lca's and stuff with poly ends or rod ends you might have a lot of road noise and vibration. that was one of the things i found out afterwards that while most aftermarket axles are mostly drop-in installs with little modification needed, you're usually also replacing a lot of other stuff at the same time like lca, phb, torque arm, and all that adds up to different ride quality in the end that you might not have expected and may not like.
- i have the slp bilstein suspension on my 2002 so it always sat low with little clearance between the top of the tire and the wheel well. after getting the s60 installed with 1350 drive shaft i noticed with the suspension bottomed out on the bump stops that the drive shaft just about contacted the e-brake bracket on the tunnel- which if that happens would ruin an aluminum drive shaft. so i highly recommend checking that clearance and replace axle bump stops or add spacers. i ended up using a piece of 1/8" steel plate as a spacer between the bump stop and body of the car as insurance.
as for ride quality, for the most part i can't really tell the difference between the oem 10-bolt. i was worried the extra axle weight would be noticeable but it isn't. the biggest problem i've had was using lca's with poly bushings and rod ends and getting some noise and vibration. and i had the lca's and phb (but not adj. tq arm) installed when i had the oem 10-bolt in and didn't have the noise and vibration so i'm not sure what exactly is going on. so beware if your goal is to have ride quality on the highway you might run into issues, my goal was basically to have it ride smooth and quiet like a caddy on the highway when going to work and so far have failed. i also have a little gear noise unfortunately, at 55-65 mph under load but it disappears at higher speeds. but when you drive the car hard it's fine.
12-27-2013, 05:27 AM
#9
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ATI ProCharger and Moser Sales 260 672-2076
PM's disabled, please e-mail me
E-mail: brutespeed@gmail.comob@brutespeed.com
https://brutespeed.com/ Link to website
12-27-2013, 10:17 AM
#10
1 FMF, I also have the BMR relocation brkts on my S60 and with the lcas mounted in the lowest hole traction is great but the rear suspension was much less bump compliant. For a test I installed them in the top position and the ride was way better but the tires spun easily, going to try the center hole in the spring. With the larger axle tubes of the S60 (12 bolt as well) I did the hose mod on the rear springs to lower the car to stock height. For now I have the stock torque arm and there is no clearance issues.
Strange now makes a different transmission yoke for the A4 and T56. I ordered my rear from Carl at CRP (very knowledgeable), he knows the correct length needed for the driveshafts.
I used one of these Harbor Freight transmission jacks to change out the rear, works perfect.
http://www.harborfreight.com/450-lb-...ack-39178.html
Strange now makes a different transmission yoke for the A4 and T56. I ordered my rear from Carl at CRP (very knowledgeable), he knows the correct length needed for the driveshafts.
I used one of these Harbor Freight transmission jacks to change out the rear, works perfect.
http://www.harborfreight.com/450-lb-...ack-39178.html