Need suggestions/opinions on a clutch setup...
03-18-2014, 02:14 PM
#1
Need suggestions/opinions on a clutch setup... Hey guys. I'm helping a friend that is having a car built at the moment. Its an LT1 Firebird stroked 396 pushing around 700-750 hp NA with a built T-56 built 12 bolt. Not sure what clutch and hydraulics to use. Nothing is stock on this car and will be a beast on the street even without boost or spray. I need recommendations. What are people using for this hp? On a spray it will make close to 1,000 hp so its needs to be able to withstand that kind of power eventually. But as of now its NA. I would assume a twin disc setup? What brands make good ones? And for the hydraulics (which I know nothing about) what after market stuff is out there that would work with this setup? I'm sort of a newb to the LT/LS scene and so is my friend. We just want it done right the first time. Any help is appreciated! I'm all ears...
03-25-2014, 10:30 AM
#2
Seriously no one has anything??? I just looked at the list of all you guys flying with 6 speeds...I need to know what is going to handle up to 1,000 hp. Clutch kit and hydraulics. Please help!
03-26-2014, 05:58 PM
#3
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off the top of my head, you'll probably need a good twin disc setup...Monster clutches makes good stuff, I'm running their level 2 single disc in my bolt on SS and no complaints.
03-26-2014, 06:12 PM
#4
i dont think monster makes clutches for lt1 cars. But since you said your car is nowhere near stock you can probably give them a call and theyll let you know if they have anything thatll fit your specific setup. They have great customer service. I think mcleod makes clutches for lt1 cars iirc. They make good stuff for the ls1 counterpart.
03-26-2014, 06:44 PM
#5
Mcleod has very good LT stuff. We carry all of them. I would def recommend the Billet TOB tube if you dont have one as the stocker or reg steel just wont work well at all. They have the slave and master cyls as well. For that app it would be a custom sort of ordeal but we can get you taken care of.
Email us and we can go from there.
Email us and we can go from there.
03-26-2014, 07:01 PM
#6
OP
McLeod makes a twin for LT1 application. I have their "kit" in a B-body 383 car using a LT1
The LT1/T56 used a "pull" type clutch PP vs the common "push" type. Don't know what clutch pedal assembly you used or if you harvested F-body 93-97 pedal assembly. Mine is custom fabricated to use F-body MC which drives the LT1 external slave which pushes the mechanical fork/TO bearing
McLeod makes a twin disc (don't go single disc clutch with the HP you will make). It is called the "Street Twin" which comes with organic face clutch disc. IMHO for your HP I would use the ceramic puc type disc they offer but you would have to call McLeod direct to get that type of disc. Don't think the ceramic disc twin is offered as a part # for LT1 but I know they can make a 11" x 26 spline disc of various friction surfaces. LT1 twin will have solid vs sprung hubs though on the discs
The Twin comes with FW, floater plate, 2 discs, PP, T.O. bearing AND...new MC which is larger that stock at 13/16" vs 3/4" (stock). The MC is made by Willwood and McLeod makes the adapter part to bolt into a F-body pedal set up. They make the Street Twin for many other car models so if you are harvesting something from earlier years...they should be able to swap you that specific bracket. Willwoods "compact" MC is what they use and they provide the vehicle specific adjustable rod for it. You will need to buy the slave,and resovoir which you can get at most auto part stores. rockauto.com also
There have been those who modified the LT1 clutch to a "push" one IIRC Weir(??) has a hydraulic TO bearing. Push type clutch would open up clutch companies. Not sure what the bellhousing has to be to make the push mod work and if it still uses a 153 tooth FW or not
McLeod makes a twin for LT1 application. I have their "kit" in a B-body 383 car using a LT1
The LT1/T56 used a "pull" type clutch PP vs the common "push" type. Don't know what clutch pedal assembly you used or if you harvested F-body 93-97 pedal assembly. Mine is custom fabricated to use F-body MC which drives the LT1 external slave which pushes the mechanical fork/TO bearing
McLeod makes a twin disc (don't go single disc clutch with the HP you will make). It is called the "Street Twin" which comes with organic face clutch disc. IMHO for your HP I would use the ceramic puc type disc they offer but you would have to call McLeod direct to get that type of disc. Don't think the ceramic disc twin is offered as a part # for LT1 but I know they can make a 11" x 26 spline disc of various friction surfaces. LT1 twin will have solid vs sprung hubs though on the discs
The Twin comes with FW, floater plate, 2 discs, PP, T.O. bearing AND...new MC which is larger that stock at 13/16" vs 3/4" (stock). The MC is made by Willwood and McLeod makes the adapter part to bolt into a F-body pedal set up. They make the Street Twin for many other car models so if you are harvesting something from earlier years...they should be able to swap you that specific bracket. Willwoods "compact" MC is what they use and they provide the vehicle specific adjustable rod for it. You will need to buy the slave,and resovoir which you can get at most auto part stores. rockauto.com also
There have been those who modified the LT1 clutch to a "push" one IIRC Weir(??) has a hydraulic TO bearing. Push type clutch would open up clutch companies. Not sure what the bellhousing has to be to make the push mod work and if it still uses a 153 tooth FW or not
Last edited by BALLSS; 03-26-2014 at 07:12 PM.
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03-26-2014, 07:19 PM
#8
[QUOTE=coSPEED2;18110318 I would def recommend the Billet TOB tube if you dont have one as the stocker or reg steel just wont work well at all. .[/QUOTE]
is this for LT1 applications??
or LS?
is this for LT1 applications??
or LS?
03-27-2014, 10:54 AM
#10
03-27-2014, 03:44 PM
#12
http://www.ddperformance.com/bc24-hd...t-56-tob-tube/
There is the one for the ford, I thought at one time they made one for the LT setup also. I can sure ask anyway.
There is the one for the ford, I thought at one time they made one for the LT setup also. I can sure ask anyway.
03-31-2014, 12:50 PM
#13
Thanks everyone for the responses. Yes its an LT1 motor converted to a conventional distributor. Its seems like McLeod is going to be the best way to go. I am using the factory pedal assembly so it sounds like everything that ****** described would work best. I was looking into bellhousings too. Quicktime makes a steel one for LT1s and with stick cars I always go with a beefed bellhousing. I like my feet lol. Any other steel bellhousings for an LT1 on the market? We originally had a SPEC stage 3 clutch but the engine build got a little out of hand so it won't be enough clutch now. It is for sale if anyone is interested PM me. New just been sitting for a couple years.
And what is this guide tube you speak of? Sounds like I'll need it. Sorry like I said I'm new to late model clutch setups. Thanks again for all the help!
And what is this guide tube you speak of? Sounds like I'll need it. Sorry like I said I'm new to late model clutch setups. Thanks again for all the help!
03-31-2014, 01:31 PM
#14
We have the Mcleod Clutches AND the Quicktime bell housing for the best prices around.
Give us a shout and we can make it happen!
The guide tube is for the TOB to slide on.
I will see if we have a supplier that has one that is better than stock.
Give us a shout and we can make it happen!
The guide tube is for the TOB to slide on.
I will see if we have a supplier that has one that is better than stock.
03-31-2014, 02:06 PM
#15
Folk
assuming you are using the pedal assembly that is stock to the Firebird. Using the McLeod kit which has the Wilwood 13/64" MC is adjustable rod. If you find you can't get enough clutch travel to fully disengage the clutch without the fork buzzing the PP....you will need to shave off a little from the "T" pivot stud the fork rides on. So on initial start....start it in neutral and SLOWLY push in clutch (Cuz if you hold in clutch on start and fork does bottom out on PP you will immediately kill starter or FW gears when motor fires). If fork starts to buzz PP as you push it in all the way, adjust rod on MC until it does not. If the clutch does not disengage enough as a result of this so you can get it in gear AND the rear wheels do not turn while you are holding in the clutch, you need to shave down the T stud since you need more MC rod travel. If wheels do turn while you have it in gear clutch fully depressed you have a disengagement issue and you need to shave down the "T" stud than .100-.125" (thickness of washer). FYI that stud is VERY hard metal so if you are not equipped, have a machine shop cut it down.
pic below is what I did. Just a tip, you may be fine but sometimes you need to shave the T deal to get all to work right. Also on multi disc clutches, pay close attention to the shims used to set correct "stack" height. instructions will come with the kit. The clutch will come assembled with all correct washers in for stack height. Because you have to disassemble to install it, sometimes you can mix up the shims so just be careful and note how and where they go
While McLeod does offer the kit for external or internal balanced motors....IMHO confirm "neutral" balance at a machine shop if your motor in internal balanced. Mine was 25 grms off. This was due to the flywheel had holes drilled/taped for the weight that would be used if the motor was external balanced. Those 4 drilled holes = 25 grms. I just used 3 of the small bolts + washers that would have held the weight on (= 25 grms) to resolve this.
Looks like the vendor who posted has everything you need. I suggest again you have ceramic puc type discs given the power you will be making. May have some chatter as a result given the aggressive material but it will hold up better than organic discs if the intent is to drag the car frequently, especially if running a tire.
Get 1350 yokes for the DS...and make sure your rear end is not the 7.5 piece of glass it came with....the Twin is not a forgiving clutch for anything downstream of it
assuming you are using the pedal assembly that is stock to the Firebird. Using the McLeod kit which has the Wilwood 13/64" MC is adjustable rod. If you find you can't get enough clutch travel to fully disengage the clutch without the fork buzzing the PP....you will need to shave off a little from the "T" pivot stud the fork rides on. So on initial start....start it in neutral and SLOWLY push in clutch (Cuz if you hold in clutch on start and fork does bottom out on PP you will immediately kill starter or FW gears when motor fires). If fork starts to buzz PP as you push it in all the way, adjust rod on MC until it does not. If the clutch does not disengage enough as a result of this so you can get it in gear AND the rear wheels do not turn while you are holding in the clutch, you need to shave down the T stud since you need more MC rod travel. If wheels do turn while you have it in gear clutch fully depressed you have a disengagement issue and you need to shave down the "T" stud than .100-.125" (thickness of washer). FYI that stud is VERY hard metal so if you are not equipped, have a machine shop cut it down.
pic below is what I did. Just a tip, you may be fine but sometimes you need to shave the T deal to get all to work right. Also on multi disc clutches, pay close attention to the shims used to set correct "stack" height. instructions will come with the kit. The clutch will come assembled with all correct washers in for stack height. Because you have to disassemble to install it, sometimes you can mix up the shims so just be careful and note how and where they go
While McLeod does offer the kit for external or internal balanced motors....IMHO confirm "neutral" balance at a machine shop if your motor in internal balanced. Mine was 25 grms off. This was due to the flywheel had holes drilled/taped for the weight that would be used if the motor was external balanced. Those 4 drilled holes = 25 grms. I just used 3 of the small bolts + washers that would have held the weight on (= 25 grms) to resolve this.
Looks like the vendor who posted has everything you need. I suggest again you have ceramic puc type discs given the power you will be making. May have some chatter as a result given the aggressive material but it will hold up better than organic discs if the intent is to drag the car frequently, especially if running a tire.
Get 1350 yokes for the DS...and make sure your rear end is not the 7.5 piece of glass it came with....the Twin is not a forgiving clutch for anything downstream of it
03-31-2014, 03:38 PM
#16
Awesome. This is great info. thanks guys. ****** I might PM you when it comes time to install the trans/clutch. You said its the Street twin...is it the RST or RXT? I would go with the McLeod steel flywheel so Im gussing the RXT is the clutch I want.
As of now the car is completely tore apart and getting its makover. I'll be starting a thread of the build soon. So far its caged to go 8.50's. Has a Moser 12 bolt under it with S&W goodies, Full BMR front and QA1's on all corners. No DS yet but no doubt it will be beefed up. Prolly 3 or 3.5 chromoly. The 396 is back from the builder just waiting on the Hogans intake and a bunch of parts to plumb and make it go. I think its going to be a fun car.
coSPEED I appreciate the offer and might be in contact with you. The shop that is helping me build the car is family and been building race cars for over 40 years. They are dealers for mostly everything so prices are usually not an issue. But I will keep you in mind.
As of now the car is completely tore apart and getting its makover. I'll be starting a thread of the build soon. So far its caged to go 8.50's. Has a Moser 12 bolt under it with S&W goodies, Full BMR front and QA1's on all corners. No DS yet but no doubt it will be beefed up. Prolly 3 or 3.5 chromoly. The 396 is back from the builder just waiting on the Hogans intake and a bunch of parts to plumb and make it go. I think its going to be a fun car.
coSPEED I appreciate the offer and might be in contact with you. The shop that is helping me build the car is family and been building race cars for over 40 years. They are dealers for mostly everything so prices are usually not an issue. But I will keep you in mind.
03-31-2014, 07:05 PM
#17
Just call Billy or Lee there and discuss them making a ceramic type disc for you and order it through your shop.
The RST & RXT are made for the LSx motors and also the "new" LT1
04-03-2014, 11:54 AM
#20
Might try D&D Performance or TICK for the guide tube
with that said....on a LT1 "pull" clutch I don't feel you need it as the TO bearing "floats" around it. The LSx one has the hydraulic TO bearing which I feel the better guide tube would be of benefit
with that said....on a LT1 "pull" clutch I don't feel you need it as the TO bearing "floats" around it. The LSx one has the hydraulic TO bearing which I feel the better guide tube would be of benefit