Hard to shift after road trip
03-19-2014, 07:43 PM
#1
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Hard to shift after road trip I would like some advice from you guys.
The Story:
A few months ago, I took a 30 hour road trip (with stops) in my 98 T/A (T-56). Upon arriving at my first stop (~8 hours of driving in 6th gear), when I hit the street, I tried to downshift, took it out of gear, but it would not go back into gear. I had to shut the car off, put it in gear, start it, then it would shift, but it was harder than before. The car did this about 3 times during the road trip after driving for a long period of time.
The Issue:
Since then, it is hard to shift it into ANY gear at high rpm's. I have to wait for the RPMs to drop after pressing the clutch pedal to put it in gear, and it will make a horrid grinding sound if I try to force it. Also, sometimes I can hear some chattering when the car is stopped idling coming from the transmission area and the clutch pedal pressed. Also, I can hear an eerie grinding sound sometimes when I engage the clutch slowly (as I'm letting off the pedal). And another thing, the transmission is overall noisy, not sure if this is a normal T56 thing, but whenever I'm holding the stick you can hear the gears spinning inside (a bad bearing maybe?). Driving casually is not really affected.
Other Info:
Keep in mind the car has a Tik master cylinder, a spec stage 2 clutch, and a new slave cylinder (all 3 replaced about 1.5 years ago). I'm guessing somehow my clutch/pressure plate is having issues? Any thoughts would be helpful before I dive in and start taking things apart. Thanks!
The Story:
A few months ago, I took a 30 hour road trip (with stops) in my 98 T/A (T-56). Upon arriving at my first stop (~8 hours of driving in 6th gear), when I hit the street, I tried to downshift, took it out of gear, but it would not go back into gear. I had to shut the car off, put it in gear, start it, then it would shift, but it was harder than before. The car did this about 3 times during the road trip after driving for a long period of time.
The Issue:
Since then, it is hard to shift it into ANY gear at high rpm's. I have to wait for the RPMs to drop after pressing the clutch pedal to put it in gear, and it will make a horrid grinding sound if I try to force it. Also, sometimes I can hear some chattering when the car is stopped idling coming from the transmission area and the clutch pedal pressed. Also, I can hear an eerie grinding sound sometimes when I engage the clutch slowly (as I'm letting off the pedal). And another thing, the transmission is overall noisy, not sure if this is a normal T56 thing, but whenever I'm holding the stick you can hear the gears spinning inside (a bad bearing maybe?). Driving casually is not really affected.
Other Info:
Keep in mind the car has a Tik master cylinder, a spec stage 2 clutch, and a new slave cylinder (all 3 replaced about 1.5 years ago). I'm guessing somehow my clutch/pressure plate is having issues? Any thoughts would be helpful before I dive in and start taking things apart. Thanks!
Last edited by Atrus; 04-28-2014 at 10:52 PM.
03-20-2014, 01:12 AM
#2
Start with the easiest first, bleed the system from the slave and put new fluid in it. Lucas sells a dot 3 fluid and its $4.99 for a bottle at auto zone. Most likely the fluid in your hydraulics is all gunked up and when you get to operating temperature all that gunk messes up your hydraulic pressure
Last edited by chrysler kid; 03-20-2014 at 01:31 AM.
03-20-2014, 01:31 AM
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Thanks for the reply. I already replaced the fluid with the Autozone branded dot 3 brake fluid, that was the first thing I did, and bled it real well. The procedure didn't change anything. It behaved exactly the same way after I did it.
03-20-2014, 01:41 AM
#4
Well next easiest possible fix is new transmission fluid
after that i would be pulling the trans and inspecting everything. Slaves usually start leaking when they are bad and you would see a leak at the bell housing without even taking the trans out. With you mentioning the noise it most likely could be the throw out bearing at the end of the slave, bearing bad in there would heat up the slave very quickly and mess up the viscosity of the clutch fluid and eventually cause the slave to leak
When replacing the slave I would also measure for a shim. Spec usually doesn't need a shim from the factory but I would measure anyways
after that i would be pulling the trans and inspecting everything. Slaves usually start leaking when they are bad and you would see a leak at the bell housing without even taking the trans out. With you mentioning the noise it most likely could be the throw out bearing at the end of the slave, bearing bad in there would heat up the slave very quickly and mess up the viscosity of the clutch fluid and eventually cause the slave to leak
When replacing the slave I would also measure for a shim. Spec usually doesn't need a shim from the factory but I would measure anyways
03-20-2014, 01:44 AM
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Okay, I'll probably replace the trans fluid, it is easy and cheap enough to do.
Is it possible I need a shim if the car trans shifted fine up until that road trip?
Is it possible I need a shim if the car trans shifted fine up until that road trip?
03-20-2014, 01:46 AM
#6
Sorry I edited after I posted, the noise you described has me thinking the throw out bearing is going out and heating up the slave and affecting the fluid pressure inside of it.
What did your clutch fluid resevior look like after a week of driving after you bled the system
What did your clutch fluid resevior look like after a week of driving after you bled the system
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03-20-2014, 01:55 AM
#8
My bet is the slave.
When purchasing a new slave be sure you get an old style slave that is a cast silver color. Delco replaced the old units with a new cheaper design which is black and has a c clip fitting to the clutch line.
A low volume auto zone may still have the old style in stock but to be sure you're getting the right part you can order a new slave/throwout bearing from SNL performance who make monster clutches
When purchasing a new slave be sure you get an old style slave that is a cast silver color. Delco replaced the old units with a new cheaper design which is black and has a c clip fitting to the clutch line.
A low volume auto zone may still have the old style in stock but to be sure you're getting the right part you can order a new slave/throwout bearing from SNL performance who make monster clutches
04-28-2014, 10:50 PM
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School has been rough so didn't have time to update...but I went ahead and flushed the trans fluid and replaced it with brand new fluid. I then wrapped the hydraulic line with heater hose, and custom-built a heat shield for the line next to where the cat is. I also flushed the clutch fluid again and bled it properly, this time replaced it with dot 4 fluid. Still having the same problems, with no change. Any more advice before I drop the trans would be appreciated.
I also edited the "The Issue" area in my leading post to more accurately explain symptoms.
I also edited the "The Issue" area in my leading post to more accurately explain symptoms.
04-29-2014, 11:17 AM
#12
OP
I think a tranny/clutch removal is in your near future to see WTF is causing the problem
you have replaced & flushed the hydraulic fluid (assuming that was done right)
raise the rear wheels off the ground, start car, put in gear holding clutch pedal down all the way....do the rear wheels turn?
I think a tranny/clutch removal is in your near future to see WTF is causing the problem
you have replaced & flushed the hydraulic fluid (assuming that was done right)
raise the rear wheels off the ground, start car, put in gear holding clutch pedal down all the way....do the rear wheels turn?
04-30-2014, 01:08 PM
#13
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@guppymech - Yes, the amount of fluid that was in there was correct, and the color was as delicious looking as ever (trans fluid resembles strawberry syrup), looked brand new.
@****** - I turned the car on, raised the rear wheels off the ground and noticed that with the clutch pedal pressed all the way down, as I'm shifting the trans into gear, like literally when you feel the small resistance as the gear is going in, the wheel spins a little bit, but as soon as the gear is all the way in it stops. If I hold the shifter right at the resistance point the wheel keeps spinning. What does that mean? If the clutch was dragging, wouldn't the wheel keep spinning when the gear was shifted all the way in?
Thanks for the feedback guys.
@****** - I turned the car on, raised the rear wheels off the ground and noticed that with the clutch pedal pressed all the way down, as I'm shifting the trans into gear, like literally when you feel the small resistance as the gear is going in, the wheel spins a little bit, but as soon as the gear is all the way in it stops. If I hold the shifter right at the resistance point the wheel keeps spinning. What does that mean? If the clutch was dragging, wouldn't the wheel keep spinning when the gear was shifted all the way in?
Thanks for the feedback guys.
Last edited by Atrus; 04-30-2014 at 01:18 PM.
04-30-2014, 01:53 PM
#14
That's good news on the trans fluid. If you do as ***** said but have your right foot on the brake so you can see the engine rpms drop when you engage the clutch with the trans in gear, how far from the floor does the clutch engage? If it engages right at the floor, that's not good. Anywhere above the floor I'd say you're getting full clutch disengagement.
05-23-2014, 07:57 PM
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@guppymech
I did the suggestion you gave me and the RPMs did not drop until the pedal was about 1/3 to 1/2 of the way up off the floor. Therefore it looks like the clutch is fully disengaging by that test...but isn't it strange that the wheels spin mid-shifting into gear with the pedal all the way to the floor?
I did the suggestion you gave me and the RPMs did not drop until the pedal was about 1/3 to 1/2 of the way up off the floor. Therefore it looks like the clutch is fully disengaging by that test...but isn't it strange that the wheels spin mid-shifting into gear with the pedal all the way to the floor?
05-23-2014, 11:55 PM
#16
The only way that your wheels will spin with the clutch dis-engaged is if it is dragging some. Yet by the test I suggested it seems your clutch is starting to grab with the pedal approaching 1/3 to 1/2 travel as that is when the engine rpms drop. The only thing I can think of that will cause a light drag on the clutch to cause the wheels to spin (and difficult shifting) while at the same time appearing to normally engage the clutch at half pedal would be something wrong with your clutch disc. Either it's warped or there are pieces of it coming off and causing it to drag lightly at full disengagement.
You also describe noise when the clutch pedal is pushed, while the TO bearing is only 1.5 years old it could be going bad. If your master/slave are bypassing you won't be getting full clutch disengagement.
That's just my thoughts on your symptoms. The way it is you're overworking the sychros in the trans. If it was mine and I couldn't come up with anything else I'd pull it to have a look.
You also describe noise when the clutch pedal is pushed, while the TO bearing is only 1.5 years old it could be going bad. If your master/slave are bypassing you won't be getting full clutch disengagement.
That's just my thoughts on your symptoms. The way it is you're overworking the sychros in the trans. If it was mine and I couldn't come up with anything else I'd pull it to have a look.
Last edited by guppymech; 05-24-2014 at 09:51 AM.
