Pin hole into coolant passage on LE2 heads???
05-03-2014, 11:29 AM
#1
Pin hole into coolant passage on LE2 heads??? Ok so as most of you know, If I didn't have bad luck I'd have no luck at all
.
I got my engine back together about 2 months ago. Rebuilt bottom end with a LE2 heads and LE cam madtuner tune.
Startup went good and ring breakin went good. I cut filters on my oil changes and used Brad Penn breakin oil. Everything looked great. no problems in the oil or filters. and no signs of coolant in the oil.
So I after my initial break in runs I then started data logs a few days later and noticed that The computer was see knock and then started pulling timing during load pulls. I was not quite sure what to make of it. I popped the hood and I was looking around for and exhaust leak but I found none. After a few more runs I noticed a slight tap/knock noise at idle with the hood up. Couldn't hear it with the hood shut but you could hear it ever so slightly with hood up. I thought maybe I had a roller rocker that I didn't get the preload right on that maybe the PCM was hearing that and pulling timing.
I went ahead and pulled both valve covers and ran the engine while it was still hot and could not figure out where it was coming from. It only makes the noise when the engine was fully up to temp and it sounded like it was coming from deep in the engine from maybe the cam to the crank area.
I went through and readjusted the valves 3 times running and not running. The last time I set the valve lash I made each rocker make noise and then quiet it up again with preload but only a slight change for a few seconds on #1 exhaust valve. I narrowed it down to the exhaust valve on Number 1 cylinder. If I cranked it down with about a full turn of preload it would quiet down and go away for 3 seconds and then come back but not as loud.
At this point I thought I was chasing what I thought was a bad lifter making a slight tap/knocking sound on the cam once the engine got hot by not pumping up all the way or a bad roller on the lifter causing it to skip on the back side of the lobe on the cam. I pulled the intake and inspected every part from #1 cylinder. I could not find any smoking gun. So I continued to pull rocker, pushrods, and lifters inspecting every part including studs, top hats and retainers. I could not find anything in the entire valve train until I looked down number 1 cylinder intake runner and noticed a pool of liquid on top of the closed intake valve. At first I thought it was fuel but then I noticed it was orange in color.
It was antifreeze.
I left the cooling system intact and during the time it took me to pull apart valve train and remove intake it had leaked it the intake runner and pooled
I had the heads pressure tested right before assembly so My best guess is that Lloyd went to thin somewhere in the runner and I now have a pin hole in there somewhere leaking coolant when it gets hot and pressurized.
Question is, Does this make since?
Pin hole is spraying (Dex-Cool) coolant steam in to intake and mixing with fuel to cause Pre ignition on number one cylinder.
PCM reads it as knock and pulls timing because it is knock.
Noise I hear is knock at idle.
Do I just try to get the head repaired or do I need to check the rod bearing on #1 cylinder.
Engine has about 250 to 300 miles on it.
It's the only explanation that makes since to me. since there are dried droplets of coolant all over the intake runner on the head.
Let me know what you guys think.
.
I got my engine back together about 2 months ago. Rebuilt bottom end with a LE2 heads and LE cam madtuner tune.
Startup went good and ring breakin went good. I cut filters on my oil changes and used Brad Penn breakin oil. Everything looked great. no problems in the oil or filters. and no signs of coolant in the oil.
So I after my initial break in runs I then started data logs a few days later and noticed that The computer was see knock and then started pulling timing during load pulls. I was not quite sure what to make of it. I popped the hood and I was looking around for and exhaust leak but I found none. After a few more runs I noticed a slight tap/knock noise at idle with the hood up. Couldn't hear it with the hood shut but you could hear it ever so slightly with hood up. I thought maybe I had a roller rocker that I didn't get the preload right on that maybe the PCM was hearing that and pulling timing.
I went ahead and pulled both valve covers and ran the engine while it was still hot and could not figure out where it was coming from. It only makes the noise when the engine was fully up to temp and it sounded like it was coming from deep in the engine from maybe the cam to the crank area.
I went through and readjusted the valves 3 times running and not running. The last time I set the valve lash I made each rocker make noise and then quiet it up again with preload but only a slight change for a few seconds on #1 exhaust valve. I narrowed it down to the exhaust valve on Number 1 cylinder. If I cranked it down with about a full turn of preload it would quiet down and go away for 3 seconds and then come back but not as loud.
At this point I thought I was chasing what I thought was a bad lifter making a slight tap/knocking sound on the cam once the engine got hot by not pumping up all the way or a bad roller on the lifter causing it to skip on the back side of the lobe on the cam. I pulled the intake and inspected every part from #1 cylinder. I could not find any smoking gun. So I continued to pull rocker, pushrods, and lifters inspecting every part including studs, top hats and retainers. I could not find anything in the entire valve train until I looked down number 1 cylinder intake runner and noticed a pool of liquid on top of the closed intake valve. At first I thought it was fuel but then I noticed it was orange in color.
It was antifreeze.
I left the cooling system intact and during the time it took me to pull apart valve train and remove intake it had leaked it the intake runner and pooled
I had the heads pressure tested right before assembly so My best guess is that Lloyd went to thin somewhere in the runner and I now have a pin hole in there somewhere leaking coolant when it gets hot and pressurized.
Question is, Does this make since?
Pin hole is spraying (Dex-Cool) coolant steam in to intake and mixing with fuel to cause Pre ignition on number one cylinder.
PCM reads it as knock and pulls timing because it is knock.
Noise I hear is knock at idle.
Do I just try to get the head repaired or do I need to check the rod bearing on #1 cylinder.
Engine has about 250 to 300 miles on it.
It's the only explanation that makes since to me. since there are dried droplets of coolant all over the intake runner on the head.
Let me know what you guys think.
05-03-2014, 11:48 AM
#2
TECH Addict
Ok so as most of you know, If I didn't have bad luck I'd have no luck at all
.
I got my engine back together about 2 months ago. Rebuilt bottom end with a LE2 heads and LE cam madtuner tune.
Startup went good and ring breakin went good. I cut filters on my oil changes and used Brad Penn breakin oil. Everything looked great. no problems in the oil or filters. and no signs of coolant in the oil.
So I after my initial break in runs I then started data logs a few days later and noticed that The computer was see knock and then started pulling timing during load pulls. I was not quite sure what to make of it. I popped the hood and I was looking around for and exhaust leak but I found none. After a few more runs I noticed a slight tap/knock noise at idle with the hood up. Couldn't hear it with the hood shut but you could hear it ever so slightly with hood up. I thought maybe I had a roller rocker that I didn't get the preload right on that maybe the PCM was hearing that and pulling timing.
I went ahead and pulled both valve covers and ran the engine while it was still hot and could not figure out where it was coming from. It only makes the noise when the engine was fully up to temp and it sounded like it was coming from deep in the engine from maybe the cam to the crank area.
I went through and readjusted the valves 3 times running and not running. The last time I set the valve lash I made each rocker make noise and then quiet it up again with preload but only a slight change for a few seconds on #1 exhaust valve. I narrowed it down to the exhaust valve on Number 1 cylinder. If I cranked it down with about a full turn of preload it would quiet down and go away for 3 seconds and then come back but not as loud.
At this point I thought I was chasing what I thought was a bad lifter making a slight tap/knocking sound on the cam once the engine got hot by not pumping up all the way or a bad roller on the lifter causing it to skip on the back side of the lobe on the cam. I pulled the intake and inspected every part from #1 cylinder. I could not find any smoking gun. So I continued to pull rocker, pushrods, and lifters inspecting every part including studs, top hats and retainers. I could not find anything in the entire valve train until I looked down number 1 cylinder intake runner and noticed a pool of liquid on top of the closed intake valve. At first I thought it was fuel but then I noticed it was orange in color.
It was antifreeze.
I left the cooling system intact and during the time it took me to pull apart valve train and remove intake it had leaked it the intake runner and pooled
I had the heads pressure tested right before assembly so My best guess is that Lloyd went to thin somewhere in the runner and I now have a pin hole in there somewhere leaking coolant when it gets hot and pressurized.
Question is, Does this make since?
Pin hole is spraying (Dex-Cool) coolant steam in to intake and mixing with fuel to cause Pre ignition on number one cylinder.
PCM reads it as knock and pulls timing because it is knock.
Noise I hear is knock at idle.
Do I just try to get the head repaired or do I need to check the rod bearing on #1 cylinder.
Engine has about 250 to 300 miles on it.
It's the only explanation that makes since to me. since there are dried droplets of coolant all over the intake runner on the head.
Let me know what you guys think.
.
I got my engine back together about 2 months ago. Rebuilt bottom end with a LE2 heads and LE cam madtuner tune.
Startup went good and ring breakin went good. I cut filters on my oil changes and used Brad Penn breakin oil. Everything looked great. no problems in the oil or filters. and no signs of coolant in the oil.
So I after my initial break in runs I then started data logs a few days later and noticed that The computer was see knock and then started pulling timing during load pulls. I was not quite sure what to make of it. I popped the hood and I was looking around for and exhaust leak but I found none. After a few more runs I noticed a slight tap/knock noise at idle with the hood up. Couldn't hear it with the hood shut but you could hear it ever so slightly with hood up. I thought maybe I had a roller rocker that I didn't get the preload right on that maybe the PCM was hearing that and pulling timing.
I went ahead and pulled both valve covers and ran the engine while it was still hot and could not figure out where it was coming from. It only makes the noise when the engine was fully up to temp and it sounded like it was coming from deep in the engine from maybe the cam to the crank area.
I went through and readjusted the valves 3 times running and not running. The last time I set the valve lash I made each rocker make noise and then quiet it up again with preload but only a slight change for a few seconds on #1 exhaust valve. I narrowed it down to the exhaust valve on Number 1 cylinder. If I cranked it down with about a full turn of preload it would quiet down and go away for 3 seconds and then come back but not as loud.
At this point I thought I was chasing what I thought was a bad lifter making a slight tap/knocking sound on the cam once the engine got hot by not pumping up all the way or a bad roller on the lifter causing it to skip on the back side of the lobe on the cam. I pulled the intake and inspected every part from #1 cylinder. I could not find any smoking gun. So I continued to pull rocker, pushrods, and lifters inspecting every part including studs, top hats and retainers. I could not find anything in the entire valve train until I looked down number 1 cylinder intake runner and noticed a pool of liquid on top of the closed intake valve. At first I thought it was fuel but then I noticed it was orange in color.
It was antifreeze.
I left the cooling system intact and during the time it took me to pull apart valve train and remove intake it had leaked it the intake runner and pooled
I had the heads pressure tested right before assembly so My best guess is that Lloyd went to thin somewhere in the runner and I now have a pin hole in there somewhere leaking coolant when it gets hot and pressurized.
Question is, Does this make since?
Pin hole is spraying (Dex-Cool) coolant steam in to intake and mixing with fuel to cause Pre ignition on number one cylinder.
PCM reads it as knock and pulls timing because it is knock.
Noise I hear is knock at idle.
Do I just try to get the head repaired or do I need to check the rod bearing on #1 cylinder.
Engine has about 250 to 300 miles on it.
It's the only explanation that makes since to me. since there are dried droplets of coolant all over the intake runner on the head.
Let me know what you guys think.
Odds are your bearings and rods are fine, but no way to know for sure without dis-assembly. I took the chance on it and mine is fine.
Coolant in the combustion will not cause pre-detonation, if anything it will stop it. But you'll loose power.
This is what knock sounds like. It is a very high pitched noise, not ticking, but a squeak that is as fast as a tick.
Think about it this way, when an engine knocks, it is forcing the piston against the rest of the stroke. The force is great enough to cause the rod to push the bearing past the film of oil on the crankshaft and dry rub them together. That would make a squeaking sound, but it only happens for a split second.
If that is the sound you have, then it is knock. But it's not likely to be from the cylinder with water in it.
05-03-2014, 02:50 PM
#3
My LE2's did the exact same thing. Leaked from the #1 Cylinder intake port, pin hole leak style. Ended up hydrolocking my engine at start up and breaking my starter. Get the head fixed asap and remove the #1 spark plug STAT. This way if you do need to turn it over the water will not hydrolock your engine.
Thanks for the info
So were you able to have your head fixed? Can you give me an idea of what they had to do to fix it?
It's not getting turned over since I pulled all rockers, lifters and push-rods and my plan was to get the head off tonight or tomorrow and clean water out, oil up the cylinder and inspect cylinder wall and piston for damage. Should be just one really clean piston as long as my bad luck hasn't gotten a hold of it lol. It's dex-cool so it shouldn't rust too fast.
05-03-2014, 07:21 PM
#4
TECH Addict
Thanks for the info
So were you able to have your head fixed? Can you give me an idea of what they had to do to fix it?
It's not getting turned over since I pulled all rockers, lifters and push-rods and my plan was to get the head off tonight or tomorrow and clean water out, oil up the cylinder and inspect cylinder wall and piston for damage. Should be just one really clean piston as long as my bad luck hasn't gotten a hold of it lol. It's dex-cool so it shouldn't rust too fast.
So were you able to have your head fixed? Can you give me an idea of what they had to do to fix it?
It's not getting turned over since I pulled all rockers, lifters and push-rods and my plan was to get the head off tonight or tomorrow and clean water out, oil up the cylinder and inspect cylinder wall and piston for damage. Should be just one really clean piston as long as my bad luck hasn't gotten a hold of it lol. It's dex-cool so it shouldn't rust too fast.
Before you pull the pistons I'd run a pressure check of the cooling system with the heads on but intake off. Plug all open coolant line that you have and pressurize the system to 20-22psi. You car will never reach these pressures in real world operation conditions so long as your radiator cap is working correctly.
With the coolant system under pressure check ALL ports for leaks. Mark as necessary and have them repaired with welding.
