New LS1 Owners - Newbie Tech - Piston Slap or Lifter Tick

Well I finally got around to taking a video of the noise I hear everytime I start my car :( .

Now when I uploaded it on to this site, you can't really hear the noise anymore. But on Quicktime you can hear it perfectly.

here's the link to the video

http://video.ls1tech.com/video/0CFB476D-F069-454F-88C1-CF3AC75D4006.htm

about 2 mins into the vid if you listen closely that's what I hear, it's really loud, and lasts like a good 10 mins or so and then finnally goes away leaving just a little sound what you would have to REALLLY listen for.

What would it be?

Also when I give it some gas and let go you can here it speed up then drop back to it's normal sound , and other times you give it gas it does the noise again but when dropping back down to normal idle it's not even there anymore., but then shortly after comes back. :bang:

well if it goes away ...id say its piston slap... but i could be wrong

nice paint too btw

You could hear it a lot better if the hood was open ;) I'd say that's lifter tick. Mine had it/has it again now.

well if it goes away ...id say its piston slap... but i could be wrong


Piston slap SHOULD go away after the first 45 seconds to 2 minutes of run time according to several GM engineers I talked to up in Detroit when I was there for NAIAS. I'd say you are probably looking at a little lifter tick. If it goes away its probably a lifter on its way out, but is holding on for dear life for you.

What is piston slap? What is lifter tick? Sorry, I'm new....

Piston slap is a tapping noise on cold starts on the lsX based engine due to loose tolerances. When they heat up the tolerances are right and it no longer ticks.

Lifter tick is when your lifters are about to crap out and they tap no matter what. However it could be a variety of things like incorrect pre-load, loose lifters, broken springs, etc...

Piston slap has less to do w/ tolerances than people thing accordin to the engineers I talked to. What GM did w/ the LS based motors to help w/ eeking out every available hp they could, is to actually shrink the skirt on the piston. Its hard to explain in writing, but by shrinkin the skirt and making the piston shorter, you effectively reduce the amount of friction area. But by reducing total piston height, you allow more "wobble" possibilities. Piston slap is that wobble. The piston wobbles in the cylinder until it warms up to appropriate tempreature. There isn't actually any difference in tolerances between the LS motors and previous motors. Combined w/ the shrunken piston skirt, you also have in use an alloy that has more expansion characteristics. There is nothing wrong w/ the piston slap unless you abuse the car while its doing it. Engineers said they have tested motors for 500k miles w/ no detrimental wear from the piston slap issues on these motors.

I would consider anything that could "wobble" to be a loose tolerance just like I said. When it heats up the tolerance get's smaller. Unless I'm just using tolerance in a different context than what you thought I was meaning it as.

I wish I could physically show what I mean. I may have to go into paint and draw what I'm referring to. every piston "wobbles" in the cylinder to a certain extent. Rock if you want to call it that. The LS based pistons are shorter, thus even w/ the same tolerances (piston to call clearance) as a taller piston, which they have to have due to expansion characteristics, you will have more rock until expansion is complete due to less surface area able to contact. Think of putting one smaller glass into a bigger one. Rock the smaller glass inside the larger one. Now take an identically wide glass as the smaller one, but short, and do the same thing inside the larger glass. You will notice the shorter one rocks more, even though the tolerances are exactly the same.

We are probably just thinking about two similar, but different definitions.

I just get sick of people bitching about a "problem" thats really not a problem to begin with. GM has studied the situation, and stated its nothing to worry with.

:( Ohh yay looks like engine work for me at 677 miles :bang:

I wish I could physically show what I mean. I may have to go into paint and draw what I'm referring to. every piston "wobbles" in the cylinder to a certain extent. Rock if you want to call it that. The LS based pistons are shorter, thus even w/ the same tolerances (piston to call clearance) as a taller piston, which they have to have due to expansion characteristics, you will have more rock until expansion is complete due to less surface area able to contact. Think of putting one smaller glass into a bigger one. Rock the smaller glass inside the larger one. Now take an identically wide glass as the smaller one, but short, and do the same thing inside the larger glass. You will notice the shorter one rocks more, even though the tolerances are exactly the same.

We are probably just thinking about two similar, but different definitions.

I just get sick of people bitching about a "problem" thats really not a problem to begin with. GM has studied the situation, and stated its nothing to worry with.

We are thinking of the same thing. I understand you.

So if my Z28 doesn't have any ticking at all...even on cold starts, that's a really good thing right?

Fuck it! Drive it till it blows then worry about it.

Fuck it! Drive it till it blows then worry about it.
:stupid:

So if my Z28 doesn't have any ticking at all...even on cold starts, that's a really good thing right?

It doesn't really matter. Piston slap isn't bad. It's not a problem. It's just part of the engine.

mMne makes the exact same sound. After it warms up you can barely here it unless you get under car or bring the rpm's up. From what i have read the piston slap should go away once the engine up to temp. I have the extended warranty so i plan on taking to the dealer sometime soon and have listen to it since it seems to be getting worse. btw I only have 25,000 miles on the car.
I'll post what i find out.

That would be greatly appreciated THANKS!.

I went to the dealership and they put in an additive called "lubricity" well I've put on about 100 miles and it still ticks :eyes: , I still have warranty but they say drive it around more :eyes: . I'm quite ticked the car has only 841 miles now.

That would be greatly appreciated THANKS!.

I went to the dealership and they put in an additive called "lubricity" well I've put on about 100 miles and it still ticks :eyes: , I still have warranty but they say drive it around more :eyes: . I'm quite ticked the car has only 841 miles now.

Hmmmm..Some sort of additive?I dunno about that.Maybe try a different dealer if there is another around your area.

My car always sounds "ticky/tappy" when cold and goes away once warmed..This is my 3rd LS1 and they have all done it..One of which was bought new in 98'.

800+???Is that the actual milage on your TA??If so...AWESOME!Should post some more vids or pics at least...

Good luck!

maybe this is your cars' way of saying drive me with only 800 miles...sounds like piston slap to me. Good oil pressure? Good power? Get it scanned and check the pushrods. Start with small troubleshooting for a tick. Check all plug wires to make sure they are on tight. Make sure no air check valves are bad. Make sure no exhaust leaks. All of these can make a tick or tap. Use the damn search button on this board for tick and it will provide you some ideas on where to start looking.

use a small dowel rod and put one end in your ear and one end above each cylinder on that valve cover and you can pinpoint if it is one problem area.... if all of them do it i wouldnt sweat it but if its just one then hmm...... on the the trouble shooting

use a small dowel rod and put one end in your ear and one end above each cylinder on that valve cover and you can pinpoint if it is one problem area.... if all of them do it i wouldnt sweat it but if its just one then hmm...... on the the trouble shooting

Dowel rod? I ask because I have some pretty hardcore ticking right now with a bent push-rod I do believe. I'd rather do this than take out each of the push-rods to see which one it is.

KevsLS1,

I bought my T/A new with 4 miles on the odometer and it had the exact same ticking you describe. It made the ticking noise when the engine was warmed up. Anything above 1500 rpms and the ticking went away. I took it to many performance shops and two dealers and they all said it was a lifter. They all told me to drive it and not worry because many LSx based motors do this.

At 10,000 miles I changed my motor oil to Amsoil 5W30 and the ticking went away. I noticed after driving it for a few days with the new oil change that the ticking had totally stopped.

It is NOT piston slap, it's lifter noise. I would try a different oil. Mobile 1 is to thin.

I always wondered this. For the duration I've owned the car, I'd always heard ticking noises, but couldn't pinpoint if it was something with my lifters, piston slap or bad oil. On my next oil change, I'm going to switch from Mobil 1 5W30 to something else.

I just get sick of people bitching about a "problem" thats really not a problem to begin with. GM has studied the situation, and stated its nothing to worry with.

:jest: :jest: You really think the manufacturer of the vehicle is going to tell you that their design and quality control sucks?

Piss poor quality control..That is why some slap and some don't. These motors have cast pistons and some sound like farking diesels. It is not normal, don't listen to GM they sold you the car!! You think they will admit to anything?

Hone the cylinders, fit the pistons and the noise and oil consumption problem goes away. But, that is another day another dollar.

Oh and it will start knocking hot as time goes on. Good luck on the resale trying to explain that "short skirts, more power" etc.. is what that noise is. GM farked up in the QC dept.

My 5.0 has a bit of a tick, engine builder said normal, called ford when it used 1qt of oil ever 1500 miles. Ford says that the probe forged pistons are built to looser tolerances and I should expect a motor with forged pistons to burn a bit of oil. FYI, my compression is 147-155psi in all cylinders, my plugs are clean, and when i plug the PCV and remove the oil filler neck I only feel the faintest wafting of warm air (signifying hardly ANY blowby imho?). All in all, engines are funky animals, just live with it :) If you want perfection, go buy an ENZO. Good luck getting over speed bumps in the movie theater parking lot.

PS, any comments on forged pistons/oil usage? I htought it a bit odd, but googled it and it seems common, several mechanics i know say 1qt per 1-2000 miles is normal, agree/disagree? (motor and block are new crate, not bored, still 302, new production from ford, oil used is shell rotella T 15-40 based on UAO's observed from LS2 engines and from the fact that it quiets my lifters a bit, which are noisy with my cam (aluminum RR's).

My car makes the same sound, it has 11,000 miles on it. Piston slap, noisy lifters, a little metal robot pullin' his pud in my motor somewhere, who gives a shit. Seriously, I've never heard any convincing argument that the noise in your clip is something you need to worry about.

I've heard plenty of LS1's making that noise. I also hear the noisy ones are faster. :)

If it runs strong, has good oil pressure, negligable blowby, and good compression, give it up, its good.

My car makes the same sound, it has 11,000 miles on it. Piston slap, noisy lifters, a little metal robot pullin' his pud in my motor somewhere, who gives a shit. Seriously, I've never heard any convincing argument that the noise in your clip is something you need to worry about.

I've heard plenty of LS1's making that noise. I also hear the noisy ones are faster. :)
A stock lsx engine is not a forged setup. Have you heard some of these motors? They knock so loud you would think a diesel is under the hood. Look, don't get me wrong your motor will last many thousands of miles, but there is no excuse for GM to put cars/trucks out with an audible knocking sound under the hood. These are street motors not forged all out loose race engines. The worst I heard was a Truck you could hear it from 50 feet away.
And none of this helps with oil consumption :chug: As far as a convincing argument goes..try and sell a piston slapper to someone who isn't a "car guy" they will walk away no matter how much you explain. Resale value is something I worry about.

I like my Z28 but I will never buy another new GM product again.

my 2002 ws6 does it too.... when i start it doesnt slap, after about 1 min it starts to slap...and after a few more minutes it almost goes away. Then if i drive for a while and stop for 5min and turn on the car the slap comes back, and goes away again.

:jest: :jest: You really think the manufacturer of the vehicle is going to tell you that their design and quality control sucks?

Piss poor quality control..That is why some slap and some don't. These motors have cast pistons and some sound like farking diesels. It is not normal, don't listen to GM they sold you the car!! You think they will admit to anything?

Hone the cylinders, fit the pistons and the noise and oil consumption problem goes away. But, that is another day another dollar.

Oh and it will start knocking hot as time goes on. Good luck on the resale trying to explain that "short skirts, more power" etc.. is what that noise is. GM farked up in the QC dept.


Exactly!!

new cam in yesterday = large ticking noise in the valve train for 10 min after starting then it disappears, mobile one is in the car for the first 1k, kind of got me wondering if that's what it is making the lifters tap...hmmm....

my X303 makes my 5.0 sound like a big sewing machine :)

That noise is not a problem. My car makes the same ticking tapping noise all of the time. It has never thrown any code because of this. I've never had any problem with the car. It was ticking when I bought it. Now, 40k miles later, no problems and it still ticks. Do a search on here for "ticking". I ran across a post the other day that explained why our cars tick and tock. It's got something to do with the lifter trays. I don't know much about engines, so you will have to find the post. Basically some cars make the noise and some do not, either way it is not a problem.

well idk what mine is but it's not the sewing machine tapping, i have that constantly and you can't hear it will driving the car. the tapping i have is in the valvetrain and goes away after about 10 min. kinda geeks me out but oh well.

If it runs strong, has good oil pressure, negligable blowby, and good compression, give it up, its good.

Good reasoning. Seems like the whole issue gets blown out of proportion due to a few extreme cases of extra loud "piston slap". I've personally never been around an engine that does it, but I don't doubt the condition exists on many cars. I've also never heard of an engine blowing up or becoming damaged due to this condition, so I don't think its something to really worry about. Its just annoying.

As for the author, KevsLS1, I think the easiest thing you can do to determine of its lifter noise or "piston slap" is to change the oil. Fill it with Mobil 1 Synthetic 10W-30, since its going to be slightly thicker than the factory 5W-30. Maybe even add in some Lucas Synthetic oil treatment, just to see if it helps quiet down the lifter noise, should that be the issue at hand.

If you do all that and its still making the noise, chances are its the "piston slap" issue. I don't know what you can do about it, perhaps someone else has some insight on the issue and how it can be resolved.

15W-40 Rotella T is what I run, love it! Runs cooler than M1 10-30 did and it has MUCH less lifter noise. Oil pressure is about 10-15 psi higher at idle and about 5-10 at a cruise.

15W-40 Rotella T is what I run, love it! Runs cooler than M1 10-30 did and it has MUCH less lifter noise. Oil pressure is about 10-15 psi higher at idle and about 5-10 at a cruise.

Isn't that diesel oil?? Thats some pretty thick stuff, my Dad used to run that in his '89 Chevy G30 350, then it blew up while backing a trailer up my driveway :eek2:

I just think its too thick for gas engines, I don't see how it can provide adequate lubrication to all the internals, especially at startup.

If it works for you, thats cool though.

It seems to do quite well, dad has run it in his 4.6L cars and gotten 200+ K out of ever one of them (he used to run a pilot car service). Also, Keith Craft recommends 20-50 in all of their motors. my motor is dead silent on crank-up as well. Also runs a lot cooler than it ran with M1 10-30. (1 half of a line cooler, ford uses idiot guages, lol). Besides, deisles have the same tolerances as gas engines, the mains are not looser or anything of the nature. Not that I am aware of anyways. Can you provide information contrary?

PS. on one oil analysis of a LS2 GTO I saw, 15-40 rotella T dropped wear metals by half over M1 full synthetic 10-30.

Most manufacturers recommend the LIGHTEST POSSIBLE OIL that will meet your engines lubrication needs, even if just barely. Ever notice that on the performance versions of some cars the weight rating is higher? (ex. Ford Focus SE vs. Focus SVT). DO they make the engines purposefully looser? I doubt they race hone everything...

Point is, whatever they can do to up their MPG and HP ratings and not cause immenant failure, they will do. Helps them qualify as LEV and makes you feel good about getting 1 mpg more on that window sticker.

The noise is not the lifters ticking....not a ticking noise at all. Sound more like piston slap but never goes away. If it went away i wouldn't be concerned. But since it never stops I'm not sure if it is concern or not? I've been too busiy to get it to a dealer, but will have to soon before warranty is out.

Bent pushrod? Bent rod?

sounds like a loose rocker arm to me

I finally went to the dealer today. The service manger took a listen to my engine. After about 5 minutes he said it was not piston slap. Thought was more than likely the roller lifters and they make some noise? Any thoughts? doese this sound right? The car is still running great and not using much oil in my case so I think it will be fine.

What is lifter tick and how do you get rid of it?????? I have an 02 that may have it too. Mine sounds just like that one.

In my experience lifters tend to get louder as they warm up. Since the oil is thicker on startup and can compinsate for the lazy lifter.

To fix it you need to pull the valv covers,roller rockers, and intake manifold. Remove pushrods and pushrod guides and the lifter come right out. You can try to clean them or just replace. Id replace if I went throught that.

mine does the same shit??? i changed the oil yesterday to mobil 1 and went out last night played with it a bit made a small pass shifting @5200-5300 and noticed the tick when i pulled it in the garage???my buddy said i proboly over reved it and the piston is hiting the head...about to go pull plugs and valve cover and see whats up hopefully it just oil..after reading this thread