Need some advice... Is it my driving? Or the clutch setup???? LS7 time?
10-06-2006, 09:34 AM
#1
Need some advice... Is it my driving? Or the clutch setup???? LS7 time? Hey all. Please forgive me if this post sounds similar to others. I spent about 3 hours this morning at work (shhh) searchign through the manual trans board and didnt really find an answer to my issues. First Ill start out with the car background. Its an 87 TA. It lives and breathes finally with the guts from a 99 Z28.
The Z28 was not stock. Here is the list of mods to the car as provided to me by the previous owner. I also am not sure of the power output at the moment. But the car, set up slightly different, ran an 11.60.
Description of the motor:
Shortblock is an ARE shortblock:
Polished Stock Crank
Resized Stock connecting Rods
Ross custom boost pistons (with valve relief's)
Childs and Albert Plasma Moly Rings, but it may have Total Seal rings.
Clevite race bearings
ARP rod bolts
Rotating Assembly Fully balanced
Engine Blueprinted.
ARE ported oil pump
MTI 2e 5.3l ported heads, milled .030 with double springs and new pushrods
228/224 113 +1 Comp XE-R cam (currently installed with another 2* advance)
Cloyes adjustable timing chain
LS6 Valley Cover and PCV system
FAST 90mm Intake and TB (and bellow)
SVO 30lb injectors
SLP 85mm MAF
ASP underdrive crank pulley
Hypertech 160* T-stat
LT Headers w/ 1-7/8” Primaries
QTP Electric Cutout
Description of Trans:
M6, fully upgraded
B&M Ripper Shipper
Spec Stage III Clutch
Aluminum Flywheel
O2 Slave
Adj. Master.
Description of Rear:
Strange 12-bolt
3.73 gears
Disc brakes
Tubular LCAs
Ok...I just started to drive it. Now...I dont claim to be the best M6 driver...but I feel like I really have to rev the car during take offs. And really slip on the clutch. I assume this is due to the lightweight alum flywheel???
Here is what Ide basically like to know. Whats the best way to take off during normal street driving? Sort of feather the gas and slip it til I can go? Or keep the revs up and smoothly let the clutch out. Either way...there is nothing smooth about taking off so far.
Im thinking about switching over to the LS7 clutch and LS2 flywheel. Ive heard good things. However, Im not sure how much power im making, so Im not sure if the Ls7 clutch is going to hold up. The car wont see track time until Im better at driving it...
The LS7 set up should be much more streetable correct??? Ill just loose the quick revs of the alum flywheel? Its cool and all...but I imagine it would be a pain in traffic.
Maybe I just need to learn how to drive the M6 in a performance application. haha. Anyway, Ide like some feedback from you guys. I always seem to get great advice on here...mainly because someone has already "been there done that"...
Thanks!!!
Justin
The Z28 was not stock. Here is the list of mods to the car as provided to me by the previous owner. I also am not sure of the power output at the moment. But the car, set up slightly different, ran an 11.60.
Description of the motor:
Shortblock is an ARE shortblock:
Polished Stock Crank
Resized Stock connecting Rods
Ross custom boost pistons (with valve relief's)
Childs and Albert Plasma Moly Rings, but it may have Total Seal rings.
Clevite race bearings
ARP rod bolts
Rotating Assembly Fully balanced
Engine Blueprinted.
ARE ported oil pump
MTI 2e 5.3l ported heads, milled .030 with double springs and new pushrods
228/224 113 +1 Comp XE-R cam (currently installed with another 2* advance)
Cloyes adjustable timing chain
LS6 Valley Cover and PCV system
FAST 90mm Intake and TB (and bellow)
SVO 30lb injectors
SLP 85mm MAF
ASP underdrive crank pulley
Hypertech 160* T-stat
LT Headers w/ 1-7/8” Primaries
QTP Electric Cutout
Description of Trans:
M6, fully upgraded
B&M Ripper Shipper
Spec Stage III Clutch
Aluminum Flywheel
O2 Slave
Adj. Master.
Description of Rear:
Strange 12-bolt
3.73 gears
Disc brakes
Tubular LCAs
Ok...I just started to drive it. Now...I dont claim to be the best M6 driver...but I feel like I really have to rev the car during take offs. And really slip on the clutch. I assume this is due to the lightweight alum flywheel???
Here is what Ide basically like to know. Whats the best way to take off during normal street driving? Sort of feather the gas and slip it til I can go? Or keep the revs up and smoothly let the clutch out. Either way...there is nothing smooth about taking off so far.
Im thinking about switching over to the LS7 clutch and LS2 flywheel. Ive heard good things. However, Im not sure how much power im making, so Im not sure if the Ls7 clutch is going to hold up. The car wont see track time until Im better at driving it...
The LS7 set up should be much more streetable correct??? Ill just loose the quick revs of the alum flywheel? Its cool and all...but I imagine it would be a pain in traffic.
Maybe I just need to learn how to drive the M6 in a performance application. haha. Anyway, Ide like some feedback from you guys. I always seem to get great advice on here...mainly because someone has already "been there done that"...
Thanks!!!
Justin
10-06-2006, 12:21 PM
#3
Yeah Im starting to think about most of the problem being the flywheel. If Im in there though, Ide rather just put a new clutch in all together.
The other thing is...I JUST got the thing on the road. SO I was hoping to drive it for the rest of the month...until the roads start to get bad. In the meantime, I dont want to kill the clutch by slipping it too much. So Im trying to figure out how much slipping is bad. I also have to learn to drive the M6 better. While Im very good at stick (stock cars), I have never actually owned a manual car. So Im getting used to that as well. Havent stalled it yet atleast! haha.
When you say steeper gear...you mean numerically higher? Like 4.10s or numberically lower like the stock 3.42s??? I can never keep the gearing lingo straight. haha.
Justin
The other thing is...I JUST got the thing on the road. SO I was hoping to drive it for the rest of the month...until the roads start to get bad. In the meantime, I dont want to kill the clutch by slipping it too much. So Im trying to figure out how much slipping is bad. I also have to learn to drive the M6 better. While Im very good at stick (stock cars), I have never actually owned a manual car. So Im getting used to that as well. Havent stalled it yet atleast! haha.
When you say steeper gear...you mean numerically higher? Like 4.10s or numberically lower like the stock 3.42s??? I can never keep the gearing lingo straight. haha.
Justin
10-06-2006, 01:14 PM
#5
Ok... Gotcha. Ide probably be sticking with the 3.73s for awhile. I do a lot of highway driving and I think 4.10s can wait a bit.
If I go with another clutch set up, and a steel flywheel, what will I be giving up besides the motor being able to rev quicker? Will I loose much acceleration or power??? I know that sounds like a newbie question. But I just dont want the thing to not feel as good as it does now once I get rid of the lightweight flywheel.
Justin
If I go with another clutch set up, and a steel flywheel, what will I be giving up besides the motor being able to rev quicker? Will I loose much acceleration or power??? I know that sounds like a newbie question. But I just dont want the thing to not feel as good as it does now once I get rid of the lightweight flywheel.
Justin
10-08-2006, 01:44 PM
#6
Ok...been driving her around for the past couple days. I have to say that I might have jumped the gun a bit with this thread. Ive gotten my "taking off" skills honed in a bit. I now dont feather the gas. I hold it around 1400 and smoothly let out on the clutch. Again...its not like starting off from a stop in a honda civic or anything..but its smooth, I dont feel like im over revving the motor, and I dont feel like Im destroying the clutch.
Ive also gotten daring with my shifting. Been trying to quicken things up a bit...trying not to be so scared of the car. haha. One thing I noticed when driving normally (not trying to haul) is the 1 to 2 shift allows the rpms to drop really fast. Another effect of the alum flywheel I assume. So I need to dip into the throttle alittle bit before leaving the clutch out so the car doesnt jerk. Sometimes I can do it without thinking and its smooth...sometimes I feel like a milkshake. haha. Anyway...Im getting there I think.
I have pulled out and layed into her a few times. Besides 1st being useless, once I hit second the car is really gettin down the road. The car is a beast. Ive already taken a few people for rides and had them white knuckled. That makes me feel good
Now I have to get better at the everyday driving...then work on launching so I can get to the track at some point.
Thanks for the input again!
Justin
Ive also gotten daring with my shifting. Been trying to quicken things up a bit...trying not to be so scared of the car. haha. One thing I noticed when driving normally (not trying to haul) is the 1 to 2 shift allows the rpms to drop really fast. Another effect of the alum flywheel I assume. So I need to dip into the throttle alittle bit before leaving the clutch out so the car doesnt jerk. Sometimes I can do it without thinking and its smooth...sometimes I feel like a milkshake. haha. Anyway...Im getting there I think.
I have pulled out and layed into her a few times. Besides 1st being useless, once I hit second the car is really gettin down the road. The car is a beast. Ive already taken a few people for rides and had them white knuckled. That makes me feel good
Now I have to get better at the everyday driving...then work on launching so I can get to the track at some point. Thanks for the input again!
Justin
10-09-2006, 03:00 PM
#7
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I had a Spec III before my LS7. Mine worked like an on/off switch and the Spec doesn't like to be slipped, so I can see why you were wondering about it. It also chattered at launch slightly (depending on the startup) the whole time I had it. Once you "dial-in" how to slow launch it gets a lot easier but at first it weird compared to a stock clutch. BTW, my Spec 3 lasted about 18K in all city driving (no strip use at all during that time), so I wouldn't expect it to last a long time. 
I just switched to an LS7 over the summer and I'm loving it. Very light pedal - feels like stock - and it grabs very well so far. I'm not heavily modded ( at least not compared to your list! ) but I really like the LS7 so far.
I just switched to an LS7 over the summer and I'm loving it. Very light pedal - feels like stock - and it grabs very well so far. I'm not heavily modded ( at least not compared to your list! ) but I really like the LS7 so far.
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10-10-2006, 04:17 PM
#8
The aluminum flywheel shouldn't make that much difference in getting rolling. I went from a factory flywheel to a fidanza aluminum with little noticeable difference. The only place I even feel it is 3rd/4th at high speed when I'm getting on it there's an improvement in acceleration, and it makes double clutch downshifts a bit easier to pull off fast. LSx motors have so much torque that if you get a feel for a reasonably streetable clutch you should be able to pull away without even touching the gas.