ErikSOCAL

iTrader: (1)

hi everyone - new to the LSx arena and have a few questions on converting my current 355 sbc with the D & D t56 to an LSx motor (in particular the 6.2L from an escalade/denali). Got kind of lost from some of the stuff I read and just need to get pointed in the right direction to do better research.
Car is a 73 Camaro running a lakewood scattershield, aluminum flywheel, and the t56. D & D supplies their t56 (this one http://www.ddperformance.com/GM%20T56.htm )with a spacer plate to position the input shaft properly on the venerable 350. I don't think the spacer plate provides much in the way of support for the input shaft but I need it to bolt the trans to anything because the mounting ears on the T56 case are machined off by D & D. Found a post from novas forever on hooking up a muncie to an LSx - the LSx does not have provisions for mechanical clutch linkage, doesn't look like I can use current flywheel and clutch set up, the lakewood bellhousing needs some work to 'bolt up', input shaft depth ?
can you pls give me some ideas at what I need to look at, I'd like to avoid having to redo another driveshaft if possible also.

ErikSOCAL

iTrader: (1)

ok I thought about this a little more last night:
- how much work does it take to get the lakewood bellhousing to mate up to the LSx?

- I'm assuming a SBC bellhousing will fit the 168 tooth/larger flywheel required for the LSx. Which reminds me... my current harvey/scheiffer aluminum flywheel required a different starter and was drilled to accept 2 clutch sizes, I got the larger size when I replaced it, 11" sound right...need to find receipt.

- I could convert to hydraulic clutch set easily enough right to not worry about the pivot?

- since the front of my converted t56 should basically be the same as any regular muncie, (1) if the lakewood works, I'd need to get a different pilot bushing? or (2) is there a better bellhousing such as the mcleod modular, I noticed it already has a spacer plate in it which I think is accounted for on my trans?

- this will basically keep the tranny in the same location and the driveshaft length the same?

bhop42

iTrader: (2)

I don't know about the lakewood bellhousing but in order to convert a sbc/lt1 t56 to use on a ls1, you have to use a ls1 input shaft, bellhousing, hydraulics, and cover plate.

Novas Forever

Wow, these are about as many questions as I started with but these are different! I found that the Lakewood scattershield bolted to the LS1 with very little work. One mounting bolt is not used but it is not a big deal. The block plate does have to be massaged though. The LS1 has some housings inside the bellhousing under the flywheel that stick out past the mating line of the block and bellhousing. I cut out the area in the block plate that needed to go to clear the housings and set flat and that was all it took. I am not sure that I would even use the block plate if i did it again. The LS1 flywheel is similar in size to a first gen 168 tooth unit so the flywheel fits fine. If you use the LS1 flywheel you can use the stock LS1 starter too.

I used a Ram pressure plate that bolts to the LS1 flywheel and accepts a standard pressure plate. The LS1 has a 12 inch or so clutch and the Ram pressure plate will allow a 12 inch plate but I used an 11 inch clutch plate. I used a 'long' throwout bearing used in non LSx motors and still had to adjust the clutch release pivot out quite a ways. The cranks on the LSx engines vary in length so the pilot bearing needs attention paid to it. I used an actual bearing but would go with an extended bushing that you can get these days.

I just measured for the bracket to use the stock mechanical linkage tonite. It will be easy enough, just modify the Z-bar basically. I think you are correct that the trans should be in about the same location as before. I hope this helps. I have been to the eye popping phase several times on this project so I am glad to share.

ErikSOCAL

iTrader: (1)

bhop, I think the input shaft on this is basically the same for an LS1 at fine spline 26 count(except for length which is what I'm trying to figure out). This isn't an LT1 t56 as far as I know but a combo GM and Viper set up... the output yoke is all mopar.

Mark, thanks for your reply. I think you're scaring me though...and you seem to be the only guy thats done it.. oh yeah, since you are deep into this - does going with a hydraulic clutch set up look much easier?

Novas Forever

There are way differing opinions on hydraulic vs mechanical clutch linkage. I have read here that some with the stock hydraulic setup want to switch to a mechanical setup for the better feel and no hassles. Then others absolutely say to go hydraulic. I am sure that there are tons of places that have the conversion pieces that you would need for the Camaro. I can't tell what you have now but IMHO if you have a mechanical setup and like it, you can use it with the conversion. I am making a bracket that bolts to the scattershield bolts to provide a place for the ball for the z-bar. The z-bar will need to be shortened but that should do it. I am more comfortable with the old school mechanical setup.

71CamaroLS1

I've done exactly this - D&D Viper T-56, Lakewood bellhousing (the LS1-specific version of the Lakewood housing), Mcleod hydraulic throwout bearing with Wilwood MC, Centerforce dual friction clutch.

Everything worked fine for about a year, then recently the clutch started dragging on disengagement. The clutch engages about halfway up, but even fully depressed, will sometimes drag bad enough to prevent shifting into gear when stopped. We had it on the lift today, replaced all of the hydraulics, and still same problem. What we noticed was this: the input shaft was engaging the clutch disk splines to a depth of only 3/8 to 1/2 inch or so. That isn't good, and we're speculating that the disk or input splines are getting wear ridges and keeping the disk from backing off the flywheel.

I think this problem is compounded by the particular combination: the D&D trans has an adapter plate which moves the trans and input shaft back maybe 1/4 to 3/8, and the LS1 flywheel face is, IIRC, .400 closer to the motor. In all, we're losing 1/2 to 3/4 inch of spline engagement depth in the clutch disk.

I'm researching potential solutions (I seem to recall seeing flywheels and/or flywheel spacers designed to correct the .400 offset). Unfortunately, the shop is booked several weeks out, and I won't get to test possible solutions until then ...

71CamaroLS1

Follow up: GM does make a flywheel, part # 12561680, designed to facilitate LS1 swaps with "early 4 speeds", which apparently moves the flywheel face out to the same depth relative to bellhousing mount face as the first gen small block (moves it out .400 compared to stock LS1 flywheel). There is also a "crank spacer" designed to be used to move a flexplate out to the stock depth, to be able to use earlier automatics with LS1s. I don't think the crank spacer is designed to work with a manual flywheel, though.

I've ordered up the flywheel and a new clutch, and we'll see how it works out ...