People With Clutch Pedal Problems Please Read :)
06-19-2007, 04:38 PM
#1
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People With Clutch Pedal Problems Please Read :) Hey guys, I MIGHT have the solution for you folks with clutch pedal sticking issues.... Here's the deal. I bought a Mcleod clutch master cylinder, the upgraded slave cylinder, and did the drill mod and I could NOT figure out why my clutch pedal still wanted to stick. You guys all know the little rubber bladder that goes in the clutch fluid reservior right? the solution is simple... REMOVE IT.
I don't know what that thing is for and at this point I don't really care because what was happening is that it was suctioning itself to the hole in the bottom of the reservior not allowing for fluid flow.... I took it out and haven't had a problem since (this is all assuming that your system is fully bled of air bubbles). I ended up using a Mity Vac. (I also noticed that removing the bladder keeps the fluid cleaner for LONGER). The MOST extensive trouble I've had with my 98 T/A has been a long struggle with the clutch hydraulics and I've finally put it all to rest partly thanks to removing the rubber bladder and buying a mity-vac. Time to make myself a t-shirt that says "I beat GM clutch hydro issues" LOL. Feel free to post questions or comments. Good luck - Mike
I don't know what that thing is for and at this point I don't really care because what was happening is that it was suctioning itself to the hole in the bottom of the reservior not allowing for fluid flow.... I took it out and haven't had a problem since (this is all assuming that your system is fully bled of air bubbles). I ended up using a Mity Vac. (I also noticed that removing the bladder keeps the fluid cleaner for LONGER). The MOST extensive trouble I've had with my 98 T/A has been a long struggle with the clutch hydraulics and I've finally put it all to rest partly thanks to removing the rubber bladder and buying a mity-vac. Time to make myself a t-shirt that says "I beat GM clutch hydro issues" LOL. Feel free to post questions or comments. Good luck - Mike
Last edited by z28fury; 06-19-2007 at 04:45 PM. Reason: sp error
06-20-2007, 06:22 AM
#4
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Not quite so fast there. You want to look at the implications of removing that diaphragm from the reservoir.
Take a look at the cap. See the small hole. Without the diaphragm, your clutch hydraulic fluid will be exposed to a flow of air and humidity. That will rapidly saturate your clutch fluid with water, lowering its boiling point and creating new and worse issues.
That diaphragm is an integral part of the system. Removing it is not recommended.
Ranger
Take a look at the cap. See the small hole. Without the diaphragm, your clutch hydraulic fluid will be exposed to a flow of air and humidity. That will rapidly saturate your clutch fluid with water, lowering its boiling point and creating new and worse issues.
That diaphragm is an integral part of the system. Removing it is not recommended.
Ranger
06-20-2007, 07:49 AM
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Yeah I have the flat clutch problem. My rubber thing sits on top of the fluid. Removing it and filling in the hole on the cap could be a thought. I can't try though, in Iraq..... 
06-20-2007, 08:12 AM
#6
and i believe the diaphram is there to prevent the fluid from running away from the bottom of the reservoir under acceleration and cornering...and to keep it from coming out the air hole in the cap.
i've been having the same issues with sticking...and it feels just like there is vacuum in the system...the clutch pedal comes back to normal after about 10 minutes, feels very spongy right on the floor. i would not doubt that the diaphram is causing the problem...im definately going to check into it.
my thought is that if the diaphram is causing the problem, remove it, and seal off the air hole in the cap. i understand the hole in the cap is so that vacuum doesnt build up behind the diaphram and so there is room for the air to come out when fluid flows back up to the reservoir and compresses the diaphram, but i dont think enough fluid moves from the reservoir to cause a problem...ive never measured the fluid level when the clutch is depressed. maybe by adding more fluid to the reservoir and sealing off the cap would prevent problems.
im definately going to look further into this.
i've been having the same issues with sticking...and it feels just like there is vacuum in the system...the clutch pedal comes back to normal after about 10 minutes, feels very spongy right on the floor. i would not doubt that the diaphram is causing the problem...im definately going to check into it.
my thought is that if the diaphram is causing the problem, remove it, and seal off the air hole in the cap. i understand the hole in the cap is so that vacuum doesnt build up behind the diaphram and so there is room for the air to come out when fluid flows back up to the reservoir and compresses the diaphram, but i dont think enough fluid moves from the reservoir to cause a problem...ive never measured the fluid level when the clutch is depressed. maybe by adding more fluid to the reservoir and sealing off the cap would prevent problems.
im definately going to look further into this.
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06-20-2007, 12:29 PM
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I think the idea of it being exposed to a lot of moisture and humidity is nonsense. I've had the diaphragm out for WELL over 6 months now with ZERO issues. Plus my fluid stays cleaner than ever. I've tried putting it back in and my clean fluid turned black within a day, and my spongey issues returned.... took it back out again and fixed again 
How much can possibly leak out through that little pin hole? it's been fine the entire time. Even if it DID let in humidity, I change the fluid out often enough for it not to matter anyway. I'd rather have humidity over the long term than a shitty clutch all the time. Again like I said I've had zero issues in 6 months with the fluid staying very clean.
How much can possibly leak out through that little pin hole? it's been fine the entire time. Even if it DID let in humidity, I change the fluid out often enough for it not to matter anyway. I'd rather have humidity over the long term than a shitty clutch all the time. Again like I said I've had zero issues in 6 months with the fluid staying very clean.
Last edited by z28fury; 06-20-2007 at 12:36 PM.
06-20-2007, 02:17 PM
#11
Originally Posted by QuickdomesticRacer
Possible cutting a hole/part of the diaphragm off?
06-20-2007, 03:32 PM
#12
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My clutch story. The Cliff notes.
350 passes at the drag strip in a 2002 Z06, always with clean clutch fluid. Never a pedal issue.
78 passes in a 2006 Z06, always with clean clutch fluid. Never a pedal issue.
I've never done a "drill mod." Never removed the pedal return spring. Never sought a clever work-around like messing with the diaphragm.
Just frequently changed the fluid in the reservoir from the day of delivery to the day of sale. Never a pedal issue. The solution is keeping the fluid clean and using a good fluid, e.g. what your owners manual specifies or a better one.
Never, never let the slave get full of goo.
When I'm at the track and find guys with pedal issues, they often say, "I just bled the clutch."Oh, really...On inspection, I find the fluid at least murky and often seriously nasty. Little wonder it boils on launch and sequential high-rpm shifts.
Ranger
350 passes at the drag strip in a 2002 Z06, always with clean clutch fluid. Never a pedal issue.
78 passes in a 2006 Z06, always with clean clutch fluid. Never a pedal issue.
I've never done a "drill mod." Never removed the pedal return spring. Never sought a clever work-around like messing with the diaphragm.
Just frequently changed the fluid in the reservoir from the day of delivery to the day of sale. Never a pedal issue. The solution is keeping the fluid clean and using a good fluid, e.g. what your owners manual specifies or a better one.
Never, never let the slave get full of goo.
When I'm at the track and find guys with pedal issues, they often say, "I just bled the clutch."Oh, really...On inspection, I find the fluid at least murky and often seriously nasty. Little wonder it boils on launch and sequential high-rpm shifts.
Ranger
06-20-2007, 06:08 PM
#14
Originally Posted by z28fury
I think the idea of it being exposed to a lot of moisture and humidity is nonsense. :
That's funny seeing how brake fluid naturally absorbs moisture and will actually pull it out of the air.
06-20-2007, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Ranger
My clutch story. The Cliff notes.
350 passes at the drag strip in a 2002 Z06, always with clean clutch fluid. Never a pedal issue.
78 passes in a 2006 Z06, always with clean clutch fluid. Never a pedal issue.
I've never done a "drill mod." Never removed the pedal return spring. Never sought a clever work-around like messing with the diaphragm.
Just frequently changed the fluid in the reservoir from the day of delivery to the day of sale. Never a pedal issue. The solution is keeping the fluid clean and using a good fluid, e.g. what your owners manual specifies or a better one.
Never, never let the slave get full of goo.
When I'm at the track and find guys with pedal issues, they often say, "I just bled the clutch."Oh, really...On inspection, I find the fluid at least murky and often seriously nasty. Little wonder it boils on launch and sequential high-rpm shifts.
Ranger
350 passes at the drag strip in a 2002 Z06, always with clean clutch fluid. Never a pedal issue.
78 passes in a 2006 Z06, always with clean clutch fluid. Never a pedal issue.
I've never done a "drill mod." Never removed the pedal return spring. Never sought a clever work-around like messing with the diaphragm.
Just frequently changed the fluid in the reservoir from the day of delivery to the day of sale. Never a pedal issue. The solution is keeping the fluid clean and using a good fluid, e.g. what your owners manual specifies or a better one.
Never, never let the slave get full of goo.
When I'm at the track and find guys with pedal issues, they often say, "I just bled the clutch."Oh, really...On inspection, I find the fluid at least murky and often seriously nasty. Little wonder it boils on launch and sequential high-rpm shifts.
Ranger
Once you get to after market clutches you get to those who don't replace everything in their system when putting in a new clutch. This means a new slave for one, but a better master is always recommended. Without replacing these parts you run the risk of not moving enough fluid to handle the higher powered clutch. Add some heat to this mixture and pedal sticks to the floor in no time.
I would be concerned about the bladder removal as well. Making it a closed system would be the only way I would remove that.
06-20-2007, 07:10 PM
#16
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Thousands of owners of stock LS1/6/2/7 suffer pedal woes...driving their cars aggressively.
The clutch actuator (slave) is located inside the bell housing, the hottest spot on the car during aggressive driving. The degraded fluid boils in the slave creating vapor lock that stop normal actuation.
All brands of clutches get pedal woes; none are immune. It's only a matter of what is the actual boiling point of the fluid in the hydraulics.
Ranger
The clutch actuator (slave) is located inside the bell housing, the hottest spot on the car during aggressive driving. The degraded fluid boils in the slave creating vapor lock that stop normal actuation.
All brands of clutches get pedal woes; none are immune. It's only a matter of what is the actual boiling point of the fluid in the hydraulics.
Ranger
Last edited by Ranger; 06-21-2007 at 04:29 AM.
06-20-2007, 07:17 PM
#17
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Keeping the fluid fresh (dry) and at a boiling point well above 400 degrees is what keeps my pedal normal.
I had a stock 2001 Z06 with a stock LS6 clutch; got pedal woes. That's why I set out to cure the problem for good on my cars, and those of receptive owners across multiple brands. Even the Infiniti G35 has this issue and its cured using the protocol I advocate.
Ranger
I had a stock 2001 Z06 with a stock LS6 clutch; got pedal woes. That's why I set out to cure the problem for good on my cars, and those of receptive owners across multiple brands. Even the Infiniti G35 has this issue and its cured using the protocol I advocate.
Ranger
06-21-2007, 07:34 AM
#18
Well......after work I went home and took out the diaphram. I siphoned the fluid out of the reservoir and added fresh fluid, put the cap on, and went for a drive. After getting on it a few times, the pedal was still sticking....but what I noticed is that it seems to recover much faster. Did not solve the problem.
On Tuesday I parked the car with the pedal stuck to the floor, yesterday afternoon I got in the car and it was still stuck to the floor. It only came back after I pulled up on the pedal and pumped it a few times....beofre it would always come back by itself after sitting for a while...which made me think it was some kind of vacuum problem. Guess not.
So I jacked the car up to bleed the clutch and after looking at it....HTF are you supposed to bleed the clutch in one of these?? LOL. I'm assuming the y-pipe has to be disconnected and the trans crossmember loosened up so the trans can drop down a bit. And then I tried to get a socket on the bleeder but there is basically no room in there between the bleeder and the bellhousing...I dont think I can get a socket over it (what size is the bleeder? i tried 10,11,12,13mm with no luck).
Ideas on any of it!?
On Tuesday I parked the car with the pedal stuck to the floor, yesterday afternoon I got in the car and it was still stuck to the floor. It only came back after I pulled up on the pedal and pumped it a few times....beofre it would always come back by itself after sitting for a while...which made me think it was some kind of vacuum problem. Guess not.
So I jacked the car up to bleed the clutch and after looking at it....HTF are you supposed to bleed the clutch in one of these?? LOL. I'm assuming the y-pipe has to be disconnected and the trans crossmember loosened up so the trans can drop down a bit. And then I tried to get a socket on the bleeder but there is basically no room in there between the bleeder and the bellhousing...I dont think I can get a socket over it (what size is the bleeder? i tried 10,11,12,13mm with no luck).
Ideas on any of it!?
06-21-2007, 07:48 AM
#19
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Originally Posted by 99ssleeper
Well......after work I went home and took out the diaphram. I siphoned the fluid out of the reservoir and added fresh fluid, put the cap on, and went for a drive. After getting on it a few times, the pedal was still sticking....but what I noticed is that it seems to recover much faster. Did not solve the problem....
Swapping the fluid via the reservoir is easy. But to get the fluid clean takes repeated changes, which are best done following the protocol here: Taking Care of Your Clutch and Clutch fluid change - (pics)
Cost less than $10 and take 60-90 minutes to clean up the worst degraded fluid, doesn't involve disassembly, dropped tools, blind reaches, or making a mess on the garage floor.
Ranger
06-21-2007, 08:21 AM
#20
Originally Posted by Ranger
Bleeding the clutch the proper way is a pain.
Swapping the fluid via the reservoir is easy. But to get the fluid clean takes repeated changes, which are best done following the protocol here: Taking Care of Your Clutch and Clutch fluid change - (pics)
Cost less than $10 and take 60-90 minutes to clean up the worst degraded fluid, doesn't involve disassembly, dropped tools, blind reaches, or making a mess on the garage floor.
Ranger
Swapping the fluid via the reservoir is easy. But to get the fluid clean takes repeated changes, which are best done following the protocol here: Taking Care of Your Clutch and Clutch fluid change - (pics)
Cost less than $10 and take 60-90 minutes to clean up the worst degraded fluid, doesn't involve disassembly, dropped tools, blind reaches, or making a mess on the garage floor.
Ranger