Sorry but I cannot figure out this cooling issue.
07-29-2012, 12:53 PM
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Sorry but I cannot figure out this cooling issue. Maybe someone can just see something I don't. Ever since i did the water pump and had the hoses apart the gauge will read funky, worked fine previously. Obviously air got in there. The car is currently up on about 4-5 inch ramps and bled the system again today. I'm not new to these cooling systems, never had this much trouble though.
When I started the car (dead cold) the coolant never dropped and again never dropped after warming up, just starting spilling over eventually, So there should be plenty of coolant. When driving around with the heat on blast it cycles from cold, luke wark, to warm and so on. Leading me to think either A) air is still somehow in there. or B) My fans aren't functioning properly after the work I did to it. or a combination of both. They DO come on with the a/c on and reaching 210 on the gauge, not so much with just the heat on and idling, so is there/what fuse do i need to check for this?
It has to be air or maybe a faulty new water pump i installed? The pump is obviously pumping while on the gas since the coolant rises
The teeth/gear looked fine when I took it off too. I'm about to buy the cable and use the free software to see what the pcm temp is reading jus to verify. Really was hoping it'd just resolve itself with bleeding the system...
When I started the car (dead cold) the coolant never dropped and again never dropped after warming up, just starting spilling over eventually, So there should be plenty of coolant. When driving around with the heat on blast it cycles from cold, luke wark, to warm and so on. Leading me to think either A) air is still somehow in there. or B) My fans aren't functioning properly after the work I did to it. or a combination of both. They DO come on with the a/c on and reaching 210 on the gauge, not so much with just the heat on and idling, so is there/what fuse do i need to check for this?
It has to be air or maybe a faulty new water pump i installed? The pump is obviously pumping while on the gas since the coolant rises
The teeth/gear looked fine when I took it off too. I'm about to buy the cable and use the free software to see what the pcm temp is reading jus to verify. Really was hoping it'd just resolve itself with bleeding the system... 
07-29-2012, 12:59 PM
#2
Check the radiator cap. i had issues with mine on my subie and it would do kind of the same thing. My cap was bad so my system didn't pressurize, but the water pump would still move water. I had a steady dribble of coolant from behind the timing cover. i put on a new cap and replaced the pump (bad gasket) and now it works fine.
07-29-2012, 01:00 PM
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I always bleed ALL chevy small blocks the same way. Pull thermostat and fill the block through the tstat hole. Right to the top. Then put tstat in the hole and bolt on housing. Fill cooling system up and start car, NO AIR IN SYSTEM! do the fans come on with defrost and ac? Is it on the stock programming? Stock tstat or 160deg.
07-29-2012, 01:06 PM
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I always bleed ALL chevy small blocks the same way. Pull thermostat and fill the block through the tstat hole. Right to the top. Then put tstat in the hole and bolt on housing. Fill cooling system up and start car, NO AIR IN SYSTEM! do the fans come on with defrost and ac? Is it on the stock programming? Stock tstat or 160deg.
I only switch it over to A/C and yes they come on then at 210 roughly. Never tried defrost. I did fill it the way you described, connected hoses, filled from the water pump, installed t stat, then rad. The overflow has the proper amount of coolant as well. Tstat is oem temp and actually the 2nd one just to rule that out.
I haven't tried a new rad cap but also don't have any noticeable leaks from it or the overflow. I don't have any cardboard currently but i did stick a wooden door laying around my garage under there to see if that turns up any hidden drips, still doubt that would cause anything.
Serious question I can keep driving it right? I'm hoping the air pocket and me constantly bleeding it will resolve the air pocket I think to be in there. As long as it doesn't start reading near the red the engine should be fine yes?
Last edited by 02v8ta; 07-29-2012 at 02:31 PM.
07-29-2012, 07:10 PM
#6
2 areas for clogs are heater core, and the steam pipe.
Blocked steam pipes make these things a true pain in the *** to bleed air out of since it is the highest point on the engine cooling system to let air out. If your filling it up and ending up with a low level in the radiator after running it and have absolutely no leaks then you have air in there. If the steam pipe has never been taken off and cleaned or replaced it is most likely clogged on at least the drivers side. mine was clogged at 100k and most of the ones I have come across with 100k + are almost always clogged on at least the drivers side.
No heat or very little heat is a clogged heater core. The heater core inlet line has a reducer that slows the flow of water and allow for sediment to settle in the vanes. Taking the lines off are try running water from a hose through it. Dont use full pressure because it can cause the vanes to burst. try flushing water through it and see if a clog comes out.
Blocked steam pipes make these things a true pain in the *** to bleed air out of since it is the highest point on the engine cooling system to let air out. If your filling it up and ending up with a low level in the radiator after running it and have absolutely no leaks then you have air in there. If the steam pipe has never been taken off and cleaned or replaced it is most likely clogged on at least the drivers side. mine was clogged at 100k and most of the ones I have come across with 100k + are almost always clogged on at least the drivers side.
No heat or very little heat is a clogged heater core. The heater core inlet line has a reducer that slows the flow of water and allow for sediment to settle in the vanes. Taking the lines off are try running water from a hose through it. Dont use full pressure because it can cause the vanes to burst. try flushing water through it and see if a clog comes out.
07-29-2012, 07:59 PM
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This may not help much, but when I replaced my waterpump, I added coolant directly into the pump where the thermostat goes to fill the block and get the air out. I didn't have to bleed all that much, and I think it was because I did that. Might be worth a shot.
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07-29-2012, 09:30 PM
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2 areas for clogs are heater core, and the steam pipe.
Blocked steam pipes make these things a true pain in the *** to bleed air out of since it is the highest point on the engine cooling system to let air out. If your filling it up and ending up with a low level in the radiator after running it and have absolutely no leaks then you have air in there. If the steam pipe has never been taken off and cleaned or replaced it is most likely clogged on at least the drivers side. mine was clogged at 100k and most of the ones I have come across with 100k + are almost always clogged on at least the drivers side.
No heat or very little heat is a clogged heater core. The heater core inlet line has a reducer that slows the flow of water and allow for sediment to settle in the vanes. Taking the lines off are try running water from a hose through it. Dont use full pressure because it can cause the vanes to burst. try flushing water through it and see if a clog comes out.
Blocked steam pipes make these things a true pain in the *** to bleed air out of since it is the highest point on the engine cooling system to let air out. If your filling it up and ending up with a low level in the radiator after running it and have absolutely no leaks then you have air in there. If the steam pipe has never been taken off and cleaned or replaced it is most likely clogged on at least the drivers side. mine was clogged at 100k and most of the ones I have come across with 100k + are almost always clogged on at least the drivers side.
No heat or very little heat is a clogged heater core. The heater core inlet line has a reducer that slows the flow of water and allow for sediment to settle in the vanes. Taking the lines off are try running water from a hose through it. Dont use full pressure because it can cause the vanes to burst. try flushing water through it and see if a clog comes out.
To my knowledge it's never been taken off. Think somehow it got clogged along with my heater core right after i did the work to the car? Isn't that pipe a bitch to get to/ work on? I don't know where to start with that.
07-29-2012, 11:28 PM
#10
Is the radiator low on coolant after it cools down?
If so that a sign of a leak, or an air pocket. If your not low on coolant don't worry about it.
You said you had fluctuating heat temps from the cabin heater so that would be a clogged heater core. This stuff doesn't happen from just working on it it happens over time. flush the heater core.
As for the temps that's normal. Low speed Fan on at 210 and high speed is like 225 or low and high speed with A/C on.
It seems hot but that's the way they are setup. if both fans function at the right temps and the car stays in between those temps then there is no problem other then your heater core sounds like it's clogged.
If so that a sign of a leak, or an air pocket. If your not low on coolant don't worry about it.
You said you had fluctuating heat temps from the cabin heater so that would be a clogged heater core. This stuff doesn't happen from just working on it it happens over time. flush the heater core.
As for the temps that's normal. Low speed Fan on at 210 and high speed is like 225 or low and high speed with A/C on.
It seems hot but that's the way they are setup. if both fans function at the right temps and the car stays in between those temps then there is no problem other then your heater core sounds like it's clogged.
07-30-2012, 07:10 AM
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Because of the air bleeders there is no reason to take the thermostat housing off. OP, if the pump is operational and was working fine before you have air in the system. A real easy way to do this is as follows:
When you do the waterpump you are going to loose about 2 gallons of coolant barring you don't drain the block. The entire cooling system holds approx 4 gallons.
If you run antifreeze then pour 1st gallon of antifreeze first. Make sure both bleeder screws are open. This will fill up the radiator and partially fill the block. Once you hear a hissing sound out of the t-stat bleeder then close it and start the car. Have someone paying attention to the temp gauge. As coolant drops in the radiator, keep filling until you see coolant in the radiator. You should start seeing coolant spitting out of the steam pipe return line. Keep an eye on this all the while continue pouring coolant in as needed until it's close to topped off. Once you get a steady stream of coolant out of the steam pipe then your engine is pretty much bled of any air. Put cap on and now pay attention to the bleeder screw on the heater line. Once that starts dribbling coolant close it.
For a few heat cycles you will have to pay attention to the level of the radiator to ensure it is topped off. Just keep a jug of coolant/water with you until it is completely topped off.
When you do the waterpump you are going to loose about 2 gallons of coolant barring you don't drain the block. The entire cooling system holds approx 4 gallons.
If you run antifreeze then pour 1st gallon of antifreeze first. Make sure both bleeder screws are open. This will fill up the radiator and partially fill the block. Once you hear a hissing sound out of the t-stat bleeder then close it and start the car. Have someone paying attention to the temp gauge. As coolant drops in the radiator, keep filling until you see coolant in the radiator. You should start seeing coolant spitting out of the steam pipe return line. Keep an eye on this all the while continue pouring coolant in as needed until it's close to topped off. Once you get a steady stream of coolant out of the steam pipe then your engine is pretty much bled of any air. Put cap on and now pay attention to the bleeder screw on the heater line. Once that starts dribbling coolant close it.
For a few heat cycles you will have to pay attention to the level of the radiator to ensure it is topped off. Just keep a jug of coolant/water with you until it is completely topped off.
07-31-2012, 09:44 PM
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Okay, so after reevaluating and listening to everyone I think my fans just aren't turning on at the proper time, new water pump is crap or my gauge is just f'in broke.
Picture 1. shows the car when driving normal, picture 2. shows it at idle/traffic speed/with NO ac. The only thing I don't get is the constant over cool. I thought only faulty tstat's or temp gauge could cause that? So I guess i still don't get it
by the way the rad is completely topped off every time I check it and the overflow goes from the cold line to hot perfectly, doubt air is playing any part in it. My wooden door under the car test only confirmed the rear seal leaks Yes my airbag light is on before anyone asks.
1.
2.
Picture 1. shows the car when driving normal, picture 2. shows it at idle/traffic speed/with NO ac. The only thing I don't get is the constant over cool. I thought only faulty tstat's or temp gauge could cause that? So I guess i still don't get it
by the way the rad is completely topped off every time I check it and the overflow goes from the cold line to hot perfectly, doubt air is playing any part in it. My wooden door under the car test only confirmed the rear seal leaks Yes my airbag light is on before anyone asks. 1.
2.
07-31-2012, 10:27 PM
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My mistake. I skim too much.
Have you thought about making your own manual fan switch? I realize it wouldn't be the proper solution to your problem, but it'd help for the time being as it sounds like your fans aren't coming on at the right time. $20ish at radioshack for parts if you make one yourself.
Have you thought about making your own manual fan switch? I realize it wouldn't be the proper solution to your problem, but it'd help for the time being as it sounds like your fans aren't coming on at the right time. $20ish at radioshack for parts if you make one yourself.
08-01-2012, 07:53 AM
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If a thermostat is failing to open you'll overheat all the time. If it fails to close your temp will never fluctuate. It will pretty much hold at a steady temperature regardless of driving conditions. I think you are right with the fans not engaging properly, if at all.
08-01-2012, 09:50 PM
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If I were to wire my own fan switch, I would need to keep that on when I run the car ? And it would still over cool anyway right? :/
Quik95, I drained the rad, removed hoses, and pump and continued my work. I replaced my water pump with a new one from autozone or w/e part store i used. Replaced the temp sensor in the pump and started reconnecting the hoses. Hoses were connected and I filled it from the water pump. After that installed tstat, the last hose and open the top bleeder screw. Filled the rad and heard/saw coolant coming out, closed the bleeder and topped off. After a bleeding session or two steady coolant and the rad NEVER needs topped off. But I have all the symptoms posted above and seemed like air pockets at first.
Quik95, I drained the rad, removed hoses, and pump and continued my work. I replaced my water pump with a new one from autozone or w/e part store i used. Replaced the temp sensor in the pump and started reconnecting the hoses. Hoses were connected and I filled it from the water pump. After that installed tstat, the last hose and open the top bleeder screw. Filled the rad and heard/saw coolant coming out, closed the bleeder and topped off. After a bleeding session or two steady coolant and the rad NEVER needs topped off. But I have all the symptoms posted above and seemed like air pockets at first.
08-01-2012, 10:48 PM
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[QUOTE=02v8ta;16581196]If I were to wire my own fan switch, I would need to keep that on when I run the car ? And it would still over cool anyway right? :/
The fans on low speed are programmed to come on around 210 or so. I'm running a 160 deg thermostat and only turn them on when the temp approaches 200 or so at stoplights/slow in-town traffic. I can leave the low setting on and not drop below 175-180 or so fully warmed up, and often do forget to turn it off when I pick up the pace again.
I don't think continuously running your fans (at least on the low speed) would over-cool anything. If you're still running a 180* thermostat, the lowest temp might even be a tad higher than what I average.
It might be a good idea to wire up a switch at least in the meantime until you figure out the real problem. Whether or not its warranted, I'd be shitting my pants with the temps you're encountering and would be using the fans on high even approaching 220.
The fans on low speed are programmed to come on around 210 or so. I'm running a 160 deg thermostat and only turn them on when the temp approaches 200 or so at stoplights/slow in-town traffic. I can leave the low setting on and not drop below 175-180 or so fully warmed up, and often do forget to turn it off when I pick up the pace again.
I don't think continuously running your fans (at least on the low speed) would over-cool anything. If you're still running a 180* thermostat, the lowest temp might even be a tad higher than what I average.
It might be a good idea to wire up a switch at least in the meantime until you figure out the real problem. Whether or not its warranted, I'd be shitting my pants with the temps you're encountering and would be using the fans on high even approaching 220.
08-02-2012, 07:14 AM
#19
i never do that whole fill from pump thing and ive NEVER had an issue on mine or any other..........i just fill the radiator...start the car and hold it at about 1500rpm fill the radiator as it pulls the water down and open the bleeder....let it push out air untill theres a steady stream of water out of the bleeder top off radiator and put cap on then return motor to idle...........do that you should never have an issue
08-02-2012, 08:56 AM
#20
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[QUOTE=reservoirdogs12;16581388] Stock fan temps are 226/235. He's nowhere near any danger zone from those pics. Running them all the time is ridiculous, IMHO.
If I were to wire my own fan switch, I would need to keep that on when I run the car ? And it would still over cool anyway right? :/
The fans on low speed are programmed to come on around 210 or so. I'm running a 160 deg thermostat and only turn them on when the temp approaches 200 or so at stoplights/slow in-town traffic. I can leave the low setting on and not drop below 175-180 or so fully warmed up, and often do forget to turn it off when I pick up the pace again.
I don't think continuously running your fans (at least on the low speed) would over-cool anything. If you're still running a 180* thermostat, the lowest temp might even be a tad higher than what I average.
It might be a good idea to wire up a switch at least in the meantime until you figure out the real problem. Whether or not its warranted, I'd be shitting my pants with the temps you're encountering and would be using the fans on high even approaching 220.
The fans on low speed are programmed to come on around 210 or so. I'm running a 160 deg thermostat and only turn them on when the temp approaches 200 or so at stoplights/slow in-town traffic. I can leave the low setting on and not drop below 175-180 or so fully warmed up, and often do forget to turn it off when I pick up the pace again.
I don't think continuously running your fans (at least on the low speed) would over-cool anything. If you're still running a 180* thermostat, the lowest temp might even be a tad higher than what I average.
It might be a good idea to wire up a switch at least in the meantime until you figure out the real problem. Whether or not its warranted, I'd be shitting my pants with the temps you're encountering and would be using the fans on high even approaching 220.