getting beat by fast LS1, bigger cam needed?
10-31-2007, 02:46 AM
#1
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getting beat by fast LS1, bigger cam needed? I have a 230/230 .565/.565 114lsa cam right now and mods in sig and was wondering what kind of power increase I would get from a bigger cam its not really a daily driven car but i dont wanna get a solid roller. I was thinking of something like a 240/245 .600/.600 110-112lsa or something big along thoes lines. This is all because of my brothers LS1 car stock headed with all boltons and a MS3 cam (237/242 .603/.609 112lsa) was pulling me in a race on the highway tonight and probably will in a drag race i'd bet 4-8 cars in the 1/4. The cars have the same stall and and mods as far as the major stuff he also has 373 gears and i have 323 gears i dont think the weight difference is much more than him being 200lbs lighter, but i dont think that makes that big of a difference but i think i should beat him with a bigger cam or maby im **** out of luck and will be slower, but i dont see how seeing as my heads flow better than a stock LS1 head all the way to .600 kinda pisses me off that i have so much ******* $$$ in this LT1 and getting beat by a cam LS1 car, I see stuff about 224 cam LS1 cars being no match for MS3 or ms4 ls1 cars. I'm guessing it plays out the same on an LT1 with all of my mods. This makes me wanna drink... 
hmmm... what kinda boost can i run on 11.1's...
hmmm... what kinda boost can i run on 11.1's... Last edited by formula355LT1; 10-31-2007 at 02:55 AM. Reason: more info
10-31-2007, 08:15 AM
#5
Yes, it does appear that you can gain some from a cam swap. Maybe not a bigger cam per se, but a cam change. I don't really think you'll gain as much as you think, but it will definitely help. On that compression you'd be better running nitrous. It's the constant LT1 vs LS1 battle that keeps raging on. Alot of people say screw it and just get an LS1 (just look at me, lol), but in the long run you'll be happier winning as the underdog.
ABA383, you have one sick car there! Looks aweome and runs like a beast!
ABA383, you have one sick car there! Looks aweome and runs like a beast!
10-31-2007, 11:33 AM
#7
Yeah, I missed the 114 lsa part...Guess thats what I get for posting after being up most of the night with my sick 6 year old...You would definitely benefit from another cam with a tighter lsa if you are sticking with N/A...I think you'd make a mistake, like so many folks tend to do, and go bigger when bigger won't necessarily make you any faster...There are smaller cams out there that will work better...I do think that 3.73s will pick it up a bit, but a better cam with the gears will pick you up alot...Hell, I bet even the weenie LPE 211/219 would wake thing up a bit...
--Alan
...and ScreaminRedZ, thanks! I'm finally going to the track this Friday to test out my new and hopefully improved, suspension, gears, and tires...
--Alan
...and ScreaminRedZ, thanks! I'm finally going to the track this Friday to test out my new and hopefully improved, suspension, gears, and tires...
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10-31-2007, 12:17 PM
#9
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well i was thinking about gears but dont wanna deal with a busted rear end, as for the cam thats what speed inc put in it when the motor was built they picked the cam and i havent had it to the track yet so i dont know what it runs in the 1/4 but i would guess high 11's low 12's
Last edited by formula355LT1; 10-31-2007 at 12:21 PM. Reason: more info
10-31-2007, 12:50 PM
#11
you dont need gears for roll racing...get a differant came for one, your 440 stall seems like overkill to me...what brand is it? the stall can kill a quick car...thats for sure...id day go down to a 3600-3800 and get a GOOD BRAND like yank or something....200 ounds is also hurting you...otherthan that its just the fact ls1 are quicker...you just have to have your parts better together than him
10-31-2007, 01:30 PM
#12
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I am putting in a street edge 3400 in my car with the mods listed in my sig. Make sure you have a 9.5" converter, and make sure it is efficient. 4400 sounds like too high of a stall for an lt1 car, I have heard 3400-3800 is a great stall for it. Getting a bigger cam doesn't mean you are going to make more power necessarily, you need the right cam for the car.
10-31-2007, 02:55 PM
#13
I wouldnt recommend a BIGGER cam neccesarily but probably a different one, I dont see a single pattern cam working on an LT1 very well.
If your converter and gears are set up right id say calling one of the cam grinders and having them spec you a cam.
If your converter and gears are set up right id say calling one of the cam grinders and having them spec you a cam.
10-31-2007, 05:06 PM
#14
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It's a TCI 4400 stall, the stall in the car is fine the cam i have now makes a lot of power up in the higher rpm's pulls real hard 5500-6500 and not that much in the lower rpm's and i used to have a 2600 stall and the car was a turd, when i put the bigger stall in, it definately was a huge improvment. With the heads that flow good past .600 lift the 11.1's and everything done to it its nothing like a stock LT1 and can't be compared to one when selecting a cam. If it was stock compression, botom end, headded motor than u could say well this cam or that cam is good with an LT1. I think i want to try a cam that is somewhat bigger than the GM847. This motor is able to safely go to 7,000RPM so i will be fine going bigger duration and dealing with the higher RPM's that come with it.
10-31-2007, 08:11 PM
#15
I'd probably sit down with one of the big LT1 builders and go over your current combos, and then figure out your goals and work with them to figure out a good combo.
ABA383, definitely keep us updated on the track progress!
ABA383, definitely keep us updated on the track progress!
10-31-2007, 08:55 PM
#16
It's a TCI 4400 stall, the stall in the car is fine the cam i have now makes a lot of power up in the higher rpm's pulls real hard 5500-6500 and not that much in the lower rpm's and i used to have a 2600 stall and the car was a turd, when i put the bigger stall in, it definately was a huge improvment. With the heads that flow good past .600 lift the 11.1's and everything done to it its nothing like a stock LT1 and can't be compared to one when selecting a cam. If it was stock compression, botom end, headded motor than u could say well this cam or that cam is good with an LT1. I think i want to try a cam that is somewhat bigger than the GM847. This motor is able to safely go to 7,000RPM so i will be fine going bigger duration and dealing with the higher RPM's that come with it.
As far as converter selection, generally you want a stall speed of 500-900 rpm below the torque peak of the motor...Like I said before its all in the combo: cam (heads), converter, rear gear...Not at all trying to be an ***, but I'd bet that even with the 847 I'd still put quite a hurtin' on you with my little 226/234 cam...Find the folks who are going fast with similar set ups and pick their brains..For 355s I'd PM Javier (I forget his screen name) His 355 street car flies...
--Alan
10-31-2007, 10:27 PM
#17
I haven't heard of many people running single pattern cams in LT1's, so it could be hurting you quite a bit, I have a Joe O custom cam and am really happy the way it performs. Hopefully after I get the car on a dyno for some tuning, I'll hit 10's NA.. Look for a cam that Joe O ground, most of the cars fly.
11-01-2007, 06:22 PM
#18
If Speed Inc. put the car together does that mean you are within a reasonable drive of Great Lakes Dragaway?
I will be down there one day this weekend, think it would benifit you to see what your car does and what a well setup car does.
Bring yours, we can line up.
I will be down there one day this weekend, think it would benifit you to see what your car does and what a well setup car does.
Bring yours, we can line up.
11-01-2007, 06:47 PM
#19
I'm thinking the 200lb weight difference is playing a big role here. You can yank 200lbs out of your car in one day and your brother wouldn't know.
front bumper-25lbs
rear bumper-20lbs
door bars-18lbs
under carpet sound deadening-10lbs
spare tire/jack-20lbs
rear speakers-8lbs
rear seatbelts-5lbs
pass air bag-18lbs
brace above panhard bar-6lbs
heat shield under fuel tank-3lbs
heat sheild above cat-2lbs
rubber mat in front of dash-10lbs
excess metal by fenders-14lbs
front swaybar-13lbs
cruise control-10lbs?
windshield washer reservoir-8lbs
dust cover under torque converter-2lbs
A/C condenser-15lbs
Theres 207lbs I just listed and I was being pessimistic. You can do WAY MORE if you like, but everything I listed is undetectable to the untrained eye, if you keep the hood down.
Also, I'd get some 4.10's, those ZR-1 wheels aren't helping you either, but they look cool though, lol.
front bumper-25lbs
rear bumper-20lbs
door bars-18lbs
under carpet sound deadening-10lbs
spare tire/jack-20lbs
rear speakers-8lbs
rear seatbelts-5lbs
pass air bag-18lbs
brace above panhard bar-6lbs
heat shield under fuel tank-3lbs
heat sheild above cat-2lbs
rubber mat in front of dash-10lbs
excess metal by fenders-14lbs
front swaybar-13lbs
cruise control-10lbs?
windshield washer reservoir-8lbs
dust cover under torque converter-2lbs
A/C condenser-15lbs
Theres 207lbs I just listed and I was being pessimistic. You can do WAY MORE if you like, but everything I listed is undetectable to the untrained eye, if you keep the hood down.
Also, I'd get some 4.10's, those ZR-1 wheels aren't helping you either, but they look cool though, lol.
11-02-2007, 12:17 PM
#20
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I haven't heard of many people running single pattern cams in LT1's, so it could be hurting you quite a bit, I have a Joe O custom cam and am really happy the way it performs. Hopefully after I get the car on a dyno for some tuning, I'll hit 10's NA.. Look for a cam that Joe O ground, most of the cars fly.
