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Old 01-14-2009, 08:14 AM   #1
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Default Viper T56 input shaft VS. LSx input shaft

What EXACTLY is the difference in these 2 input shafts? I have a LT1 T56 that I am swapping over (as most of you guys now know) to go behind my LS based 414. Now, I found a guy that has an actual Viper T56 that he needs my LT1 input shaft. So, I know that the Viper is stronger (atleast, that is what I have been told) than the basic LSx based iput shaft so I told the guy that I would swap input shafts straight up. His for mine.
Now, I do know that the Viper input shaft needs to be shortened to make it work behind the LSx motor, so....

My question:

What part of it needs to be shortened? Where it rides in the pilot bearing? Is the spline count the same as a LS based cinput shaft? In other words, can I still use a LS based clutch with the upgrade?

Now, I don't want opinions on whether you would do it or not, as I know that this is not the most popluar route to go. I jsut need to know, what exactly is shortened and can I still use a LS based clutch, or do I have to go Viper clutch or something?

Thanks guys!!
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Old 01-14-2009, 08:37 AM   #2
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The viper shaft is a harder steel, and thicker. It's about 3/4" longer than the LS1 and the pilot is much thicker. Splines are the same. I had a local machinst turn down a viper shaft to LS1 dimensions, and it cost $65.. (He had to purchase harder bits for his lathe to cut the harder viper shaft..)

Click the image to open in full size.
http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28...DCP_%20011.jpg

Click the image to open in full size.

http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28...e/102_7013.jpg

(edit: you didn't mention if you were using the viper front plate or not.. You can use the front plate on the LS1, but you have to use the viper slave, and change the quick-connect over from a LS1 slave..)

Last edited by 85MikeTPI; 01-14-2009 at 08:48 AM..
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Old 01-14-2009, 09:02 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 85MikeTPI View Post
The viper shaft is a harder steel, and thicker. It's about 3/4" longer than the LS1 and the pilot is much thicker. Splines are the same. I had a local machinst turn down a viper shaft to LS1 dimensions, and it cost $65.. (He had to purchase harder bits for his lathe to cut the harder viper shaft..)

Click the image to open in full size.
http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28...DCP_%20011.jpg

Click the image to open in full size.

http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28...e/102_7013.jpg

(edit: you didn't mention if you were using the viper front plate or not.. You can use the front plate on the LS1, but you have to use the viper slave, and change the quick-connect over from a LS1 slave..)

Ok, this is where the good info comes in: He is willing to hook me up with his Viper midplate in exchange for mine. Again, since I am making the swap over, I told him that we could do that since he needs my midplate as well. So, you are saying that I SHOULD use the Viper midplate if I have the chance? And then when I do that, I need to run a Viper slave? The only hydraulics I have right now are LT1 stuff. So, starting from fresh, I would need:
Viper midplate
Viper slave
Turn the tip of the input down to LS1 specs AND cut 3/4" off teh nose
Use LSx base clutch
Use LSx base bellhousing

What else?

Thanks!!!
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Old 01-14-2009, 09:08 AM   #4
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That's about it.. The ~3/4" is not a direct cut-off the input BTW, but some of the viper splines get machined down to form part of the new pilot.. Best if you have an old LS1 shaft to give to the shop for comparison, otherwise I (or anyone) should give you exacting measurements.

Also, you just need to grab the quick-connect off an old LS1 slave (small rollpin removal) to swap it to the viper slave. The viper front plate has the slave bolts clocked differently than the LS1, which is why you need the viper slave.
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Old 01-14-2009, 09:27 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 85MikeTPI View Post
That's about it.. The ~3/4" is not a direct cut-off the input BTW, but some of the viper splines get machined down to form part of the new pilot.. Best if you have an old LS1 shaft to give to the shop for comparison, otherwise I (or anyone) should give you exacting measurements.

Also, you just need to grab the quick-connect off an old LS1 slave (small rollpin removal) to swap it to the viper slave. The viper front plate has the slave bolts clocked differently than the LS1, which is why you need the viper slave.

I DON'T have an old LS1 input shaft. Can you shoot me a pic of this "quick-connect" you are talking about? Since I am rather new to teh LS scene (if you haven't already figured that out already) and I do not have teh LS hydraulics to look at, not sure what you are referring to there. Do you know where I can pick up a Viper Slave? Sponsor here have one? What you are saying (at least how I am seeing it) is that I can use the LS based Master cylinder with the Viper slave, and that is why I need this quick connect thing? Or something like that??? Man, you have been a HUGE help!!!

Now, instead of having to spend $300 on a LS midplate, and $200 for a LS input shaft, I am getting them for FREE!!! Well, I am swapping my parts for his, but no money!!! All I need to "buy" is the machine work to cut the input down and this quick connect thingamajiggie. Saving quite a bit there if I do say so myself. And since I had to buy a LS slave anyway, I am not losing out on having to buy the Viper slave.

Anyways, if you could shoot me a pic or link to thei quick connect, and maybe if you know where I can pick up a Viper slave, and oh, I need the dimensions. Hell, I feel like I may need to send ya some money for your time

Thanks again!!!!
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Old 01-14-2009, 09:36 AM   #6
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LS1 slave The quick connect is the side with the red dust cap. (the other is the bleeder). Notice the roll pin in the slave base, where the quick connect attaches.

I think it's ok on this forum to link to other forums, but this is a nice write up of the viper, but into a older chevelle.

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/show....php?p=1717204

[edit: I don't have an LS1 input here with me at school.. ;-) If no one pops up with the input dimensions by this evening, I'll shoot them off to you then..]

[edit2: I've found viper clutch slaves on NAPA, Autozone, etc., so they shouldn't be hard to find. About $180 in my area]

Last edited by 85MikeTPI; 01-14-2009 at 09:53 AM..
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Old 01-14-2009, 03:38 PM   #7
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YES, fantastic!!! Thanks for the links, pics, info, you name it!!! And now that appears that no one has chimed in with the dimensions, you might be on the lamb for that one as well Well, if you don't, no biggie. I can try and hunt them down some how. Man, again, I appreciate on your leg work on this!!!
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Old 01-14-2009, 06:49 PM   #8
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To the end (ledge) of the splines, it's 7.565" from the gear face, or 6.650 from the inside race edge of the tapered bearing if installed.

The pilot is 1.140" from tip to beginning of splines, and 0.590" diameter.

That should be enough for a machinist to machine down the viper shaft to LS1 specs.

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Old 01-15-2009, 12:43 AM   #9
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I dont know if these will help, but here is our viper spec (Black trans) and a stock t56 input shafts. Im sorry, i didnt get any measurements while during the swap:
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Old 01-15-2009, 07:22 AM   #10
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I have not known of anyone that has broke a LS1 input shaft. I would be more worried about the LS1 main shaft on a high hp car. Put a Viper main shaft in your T56 and you should be good to go.
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Old 01-15-2009, 08:21 AM   #11
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Quote:
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I have not known of anyone that has broke a LS1 input shaft. I would be more worried about the LS1 main shaft on a high hp car. Put a Viper main shaft in your T56 and you should be good to go.
He doesn't have an LS1 input, only a free Viper input....
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Old 01-15-2009, 08:35 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 85MikeTPI View Post
He doesn't have an LS1 input, only a free Viper input....

Thanks good man for all your info, help and just everything else!! You ever need anything down these parts, give me a shout, and consider it done!

OK guys, build is coming along nicely. Really only hit a snag with teh damn adjustable rockers for the L92's.....but that is for another thread and another day


Again, thanks for the all the useful info and the links!!!!!!
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Old 07-23-2009, 11:10 PM   #13
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Oh man i might want to do this upgrade i have a beefy clutch, i took out the trans today and my input shaft was sheared off right at the slave
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Viper T56 input shaft VS. LSx input shaft-broken-input-shaft-005.jpg   Viper T56 input shaft VS. LSx input shaft-broken-input-shaft-001.jpg  
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Old 07-24-2009, 04:06 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000ws6transam View Post
Oh man i might want to do this upgrade i have a beefy clutch, i took out the trans today and my input shaft was sheared off right at the slave
I broke mine last week in the same spot!! check that pilot bearing/install a new one. Order you a stock input shaft and be done with it.
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Old 07-24-2009, 07:47 AM   #15
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Damn..
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Old 07-24-2009, 07:48 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NVR_SPDS View Post
I dont know if these will help, but here is our viper spec (Black trans) and a stock t56 input shafts. Im sorry, i didnt get any measurements while during the swap:

cool pic! ive never seen em side to side like that!
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Old 07-24-2009, 09:29 AM   #17
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Quote:
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Oh man i might want to do this upgrade i have a beefy clutch, i took out the trans today and my input shaft was sheared off right at the slave
Does your car have drag radials on it?
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Old 05-24-2013, 03:18 PM   #18
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Wanted to say... This thread helped me a lot got my shaft machined yesterday. Everything looks good. I'll upload my pics of the machining!
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Old 08-11-2013, 08:49 AM   #19
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where are the pics?!
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Old 08-11-2013, 08:49 AM
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