SSR Fbody T56 hybrid project (1000hp on stock parts?)
#61
Since I've found some discussions on the internet about the SSR T56 strength and the hybrid build, I thought I'd set the record straight and have updated the write up with some Appendices.. To summarize:
I'll continue to update the write-up as new info and/or clarifications come in..
Notice that the SSR M10 is in fact, a hybrid of sorts already. GM took the stronger 1st gear tooth ratio of the MM6, and applied it to the wide-ratio M12 gears to help move the 6050-pound GVWR of the SSR. The SSR input shaft, and the driven (mainshaft) 2nd and 3rd gears are all taken directly from the CTSv T56. It’s not a coincidence that the SSR uses the same upgraded 1-2 synchronizer locking-ring as the CTSv T56. The strength of the SSR T56 is foremost in the mainshaft diameter. Performing the hybrid build as documented in this write-up does not result in a T56 weaker than the SSR, in most cases the hybrid will be stronger than the original.
#62
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bump.....any updates? have you tested it out yet?
so it would be in our best interest to find a c6z trans from 06-07 and add the ssr output shaft and modified tail housing as it has the same gearing as our fbody t56?
so it would be in our best interest to find a c6z trans from 06-07 and add the ssr output shaft and modified tail housing as it has the same gearing as our fbody t56?
#63
My personal 1000hp T56 is still sitting on the bench. My L92-VVT project is coming along slowly, and I have this 2nd 900hp T56 SSR hybrid version (2pc counter) that I guess I need to sell to fund the L92. Since it's all stock or stock replacement parts, there's nothing really to test IMHO.
The C6-Z06 T56 is the strongest donor, but for those more readily available std. C5 T56 MM6 units, I added part numbers to the write-up to allow you to add the 1pc MM6 countershaft to any C5 MM6 donor to make it equivilent to the C6-Z06 T56.. (This also allows use of the stock SSR tailhousing, needing only milling on the shifter pad, not boring of the bushing)
The C6-Z06 T56 is the strongest donor, but for those more readily available std. C5 T56 MM6 units, I added part numbers to the write-up to allow you to add the 1pc MM6 countershaft to any C5 MM6 donor to make it equivilent to the C6-Z06 T56.. (This also allows use of the stock SSR tailhousing, needing only milling on the shifter pad, not boring of the bushing)
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85MikeTPI, have you ever face plated a T56? I'm considering upgrading to the SSR main, and face plating the gears in the trans as I want the strength, and I also want to be able to shift as fast as a face plated trans can allow.
I'd prefer to use the MM6 ratios, and 1 piece counter shaft, it's going into my Caprice, which will is a heavy car, and with the power I hope the new engine makes, I need a strong transmission.
I'm also considering a TR6060 or "T56 Magnum"...but I already have an F-Body T56 in perfect condition to use...having trouble deciding which route to go.
I'd prefer to use the MM6 ratios, and 1 piece counter shaft, it's going into my Caprice, which will is a heavy car, and with the power I hope the new engine makes, I need a strong transmission.
I'm also considering a TR6060 or "T56 Magnum"...but I already have an F-Body T56 in perfect condition to use...having trouble deciding which route to go.
#66
85MikeTPI, have you ever face plated a T56? I'm considering upgrading to the SSR main, and face plating the gears in the trans as I want the strength, and I also want to be able to shift as fast as a face plated trans can allow.
I'd prefer to use the MM6 ratios, and 1 piece counter shaft, it's going into my Caprice, which will is a heavy car, and with the power I hope the new engine makes, I need a strong transmission.
I'm also considering a TR6060 or "T56 Magnum"...but I already have an F-Body T56 in perfect condition to use...having trouble deciding which route to go.
I'd prefer to use the MM6 ratios, and 1 piece counter shaft, it's going into my Caprice, which will is a heavy car, and with the power I hope the new engine makes, I need a strong transmission.
I'm also considering a TR6060 or "T56 Magnum"...but I already have an F-Body T56 in perfect condition to use...having trouble deciding which route to go.
Personally, I think if the car is street/strip, the extra friction surfaces of the triple/double cone synchros will go along way to supporting the power and higher RPM shifting, over the base Fbody T56. If you definitely want to faceplace, stick with your base Fbody T56 and have an upgraded viper mainshaft added.
#68
Just wanted to update the thread that I'm continually updating/revising the build write-up and working on several new options for the buildup and tailhousings. (I've got about $3,000 of my own money tied up in T56 parts, so sometimes updates have to wait for the next paycheck.. )
Anyway, I have the P/N's from Rick (LS123) and verified, to allow a std. C5 MM6 to upgrade to the C6-Z06 1pc countershaft for about $500. I'll probably be doing a major re-write on the buildup in the next month or so to make some of these options easier to understand.
mike
Anyway, I have the P/N's from Rick (LS123) and verified, to allow a std. C5 MM6 to upgrade to the C6-Z06 1pc countershaft for about $500. I'll probably be doing a major re-write on the buildup in the next month or so to make some of these options easier to understand.
mike
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I just wish I could find a donor C5 MM6 trans. I want to order the SSR tail housing and mainshaft from GM probably monday...and I'd like to find a donor trans asap so I can start building.
Last edited by Mike454SS; 10-23-2010 at 03:47 PM.
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http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-p...t-shifter.html
#73
Seems pricey though. As I just mentioned, for $500 you can make any C5 MM5 into a C6-Z06 with the 1pc counter, the splined rev drive gear, and the 5th and 6th thrust washers..
I've also worked out an intermediate option for anyone with an existing Fbody tailhousing. By using a viper modified Fbody tailhousing from D&D, Tick, etc. and machining down the OD of the TH400 slip yoke, you can get 90-95% of the power levels of the TH400 slip-yoke, without the radical tailhousing modifications to support the 1.885" bushing and seal. I'll probably have a batch of slip-yokes machined if anyone is interested, and I'll be updating the write-up with info and pics.
#74
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IF I understand your pdf correctly...if I have an F-Body LS1 T56, and a C6 ZO6 as a donor, I don't need to purchase a whole lot more.
Far as I can tell, I'll need to purchase the SSR mainshaft, tailhousing, seal, 1st gear synchro retainer parts and VSS ring. I could bore the F-Body tailhousing, but milling the shifter pad seems more convenient, less touchy on tolerances, and leaves all the material that was cast into it around the bushing. Then I will just need to machine first gear for the different synchro retaining ring...right? Short of that it sounds like I'd just then need to replace any bearings that aren't in good shape (I bet they're all fine though), same for blocker rings, and buy a slipyoke for my driveshaft.
I feel like if I can get the C6 ZO6 donor trans in good shape for a good price, that this is the route to take...I've rebuilt a few T56's before, so I'm not too worried about the actual assembly...they've just always been to replace broken synchro keys or once for all new bearings when a friend had a leak and ran his trans dry...and it'll be basically the strongest T56 I could buy/build...which should go well in my 4500+ pound twin turbo sedan behind a twin disc clutch...
...am I confused, or am I on the right track?
I forgot to include the bronze fork pads and billet keys...looking at your teardown pictures, it looks like they still used the aluminum 3-4 fork in the C6 stuff...I thought GM went to the steel one at some point, but I guess not. No big deal, thats a relatively inexpensive part.
Far as I can tell, I'll need to purchase the SSR mainshaft, tailhousing, seal, 1st gear synchro retainer parts and VSS ring. I could bore the F-Body tailhousing, but milling the shifter pad seems more convenient, less touchy on tolerances, and leaves all the material that was cast into it around the bushing. Then I will just need to machine first gear for the different synchro retaining ring...right? Short of that it sounds like I'd just then need to replace any bearings that aren't in good shape (I bet they're all fine though), same for blocker rings, and buy a slipyoke for my driveshaft.
I feel like if I can get the C6 ZO6 donor trans in good shape for a good price, that this is the route to take...I've rebuilt a few T56's before, so I'm not too worried about the actual assembly...they've just always been to replace broken synchro keys or once for all new bearings when a friend had a leak and ran his trans dry...and it'll be basically the strongest T56 I could buy/build...which should go well in my 4500+ pound twin turbo sedan behind a twin disc clutch...
...am I confused, or am I on the right track?
I forgot to include the bronze fork pads and billet keys...looking at your teardown pictures, it looks like they still used the aluminum 3-4 fork in the C6 stuff...I thought GM went to the steel one at some point, but I guess not. No big deal, thats a relatively inexpensive part.
Last edited by Mike454SS; 10-25-2010 at 08:40 PM.
#75
Far as I can tell, I'll need to purchase the SSR mainshaft, tailhousing, seal, 1st gear synchro retainer parts and VSS ring. I could bore the F-Body tailhousing, but milling the shifter pad seems more convenient, less touchy on tolerances, and leaves all the material that was cast into it around the bushing. Then I will just need to machine first gear for the different synchro retaining ring...right? Short of that it sounds like I'd just then need to replace any bearings that aren't in good shape (I bet they're all fine though), same for blocker rings, and buy a slipyoke for my driveshaft.
http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28...100201_LS7T56/
I feel like if I can get the C6 ZO6 donor trans in good shape for a good price, that this is the route to take...I've rebuilt a few T56's before, so I'm not too worried about the actual assembly...they've just always been to replace broken synchro keys or once for all new bearings when a friend had a leak and ran his trans dry...and it'll be basically the strongest T56 I could buy/build...which should go well in my 4500+ pound twin turbo sedan behind a twin disc clutch...
...am I confused, or am I on the right track?
I forgot to include the bronze fork pads and billet keys...looking at your teardown pictures, it looks like they still used the aluminum 3-4 fork in the C6 stuff...I thought GM went to the steel one at some point, but I guess not. No big deal, thats a relatively inexpensive part.
I forgot to include the bronze fork pads and billet keys...looking at your teardown pictures, it looks like they still used the aluminum 3-4 fork in the C6 stuff...I thought GM went to the steel one at some point, but I guess not. No big deal, thats a relatively inexpensive part.
I'm currently in the process of building another from a C6-Z06 unit with broken 3rd gear..
http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28...01013_SSR_LS7/
#77
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Just ordered my SSR tail housing, 2 half ring synchro retainers as well as the 1 outer ring retainer and an SSR VSS wheel...the engine this is going behind will require LOTS of tuning...so changing the VSS to 40 pulses per revolution in the PCM is no big deal at all, and means less machine work for me. All direct from GM. When I get it, I'll put the tail housing in a mill at work and bring the shifter mounting pad down to F-Body height, and I won't have much machining left to do at all...just the first gear step lip machining...which I'll also do myself.
Putting together the list of parts to buy from Tremec next.
Putting together the list of parts to buy from Tremec next.
#78
Updated write-up
I've been adding points, clarifications, and other things to the write-up continually, but thought the latest update deserved attention.
The write-up is still at the same location:
http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28..._Fbody_T56.pdf
New points of interest:
- Part Numbers for GM 1pc MM6 countershaft "kit" to upgrade any C5 MM6 to C6-Z06 T56 specs (Can be used on any F-body MM6 IF(!) the double-cone 5-6 drive gears from a C5 are used)
- Details/availability of caged needle bearing spacers to install 1pc countershaft into F-body tailhousings.
- Details/availability of using "viper-mod" F-body tailhousings with the stronger/better SSR upgrade. (Get your viper-mod tailhousing from D&D, Tick, TDP, etc. and just machine a TH400 yoke)
- Detailed chart/explanation of GM T56 gear teeth and gear ratios (with some comments on strength)
Comments are always welcome.
thanks
mike
I've been adding points, clarifications, and other things to the write-up continually, but thought the latest update deserved attention.
The write-up is still at the same location:
http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28..._Fbody_T56.pdf
New points of interest:
- Part Numbers for GM 1pc MM6 countershaft "kit" to upgrade any C5 MM6 to C6-Z06 T56 specs (Can be used on any F-body MM6 IF(!) the double-cone 5-6 drive gears from a C5 are used)
- Details/availability of caged needle bearing spacers to install 1pc countershaft into F-body tailhousings.
- Details/availability of using "viper-mod" F-body tailhousings with the stronger/better SSR upgrade. (Get your viper-mod tailhousing from D&D, Tick, TDP, etc. and just machine a TH400 yoke)
- Detailed chart/explanation of GM T56 gear teeth and gear ratios (with some comments on strength)
Comments are always welcome.
thanks
mike
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I'd be cautious machining a yoke to a smaller minor diameter. I know it's not a HUGE change...but I've seen yokes crack along the splines (usually at a seam weld on a cheaper yoke)...so it is probably worth advocating a forged yoke, preferably a chromoly one like those offered by Strange if you are planning to turn the major diameter down to fit inside a viper tail housing.
Also important to get a good surface finish on the outside of the yoke (as good as or better than original) so it doesn't wear the bushing and seal out incredibly fast.
Also important to get a good surface finish on the outside of the yoke (as good as or better than original) so it doesn't wear the bushing and seal out incredibly fast.
#80
I'd be cautious machining a yoke to a smaller minor diameter. I know it's not a HUGE change...but I've seen yokes crack along the splines (usually at a seam weld on a cheaper yoke)...so it is probably worth advocating a forged yoke, preferably a chromoly one like those offered by Strange if you are planning to turn the major diameter down to fit inside a viper tail housing.
Also important to get a good surface finish on the outside of the yoke (as good as or better than original) so it doesn't wear the bushing and seal out incredibly fast.
Also important to get a good surface finish on the outside of the yoke (as good as or better than original) so it doesn't wear the bushing and seal out incredibly fast.
thanks...