Motorcitydak

Hey guys, first post here. I had to join up to pick your brains. It is impossible to search anything about t56's and not end up here. I have been building an all wheel drive '68 Charger for quite a while now. Rite now I am trying to build the transmission and transfer case setup.

I have the Viper t56 now but I there are no 30 spline input shafts for the t case. I picked up a 32 spline main shaft and a few other parts after reading the write up from 85miketpi. Obviously tho it is not just a simple drop in. I also picked up the new 1st gear and retainer system. There are still some more parts that I need however and I need to figure out what they are. Here is a shot of the SSR shaft next to my Viper one



Looking at the shafts, the front bearing is the same but the 3-4 synchro assy is different. It does look like the 3rd gear will fit, just without the spacer however. The collar then is the same distance from the front but is thinner on the SSR.

The area for 1st gear is longer then the splines for that synchro is much shorter. There is a small gap, then the journal for 2nd gear is the same. Everything past 2nd gear is perfectly the same. I am not worried about the VSS so no concerns there.

I know that I have to swap to triple/double cone syncrho's and that I have double/single now. Can I use the Viper 1-2 synchro on my new 3-4? Also I would really like to keep the MM6 ratio and would rather keep the 2 piece counter shaft.

So fellas with way more knowledge than me here, please help me find exactly what I still need. Also, check out this link if you want to see the whole car build

http://www.pro-touring.com/showthrea...eed-AWD/page12

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (9)

Nothing will swap over from the single/double gears and synchro to the double/triple mainshaft.

If you need a 32spline output, best route would be to sell the viper unit complete and pick up a C5 MM6 T56 doner for cheap.

Motorcitydak

Crap, alright thanks a lot Mike. You are an immense help with your knowledge of these transmissions. I guess I will have to start lookin

Motorcitydak

You said that main case and many other parts are pretty much universal over any t56. If I went to a 1 piece counter shaft would it be possible? I do not want to question you, just curious

I only ask because if I get sell my Viper box, I would rather sell it complete. Then I would have to buy the vette box and a Viper mid plate and input. Then I still have the $300 worth of 1st gear and retainer sitting around that I will not use

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (9)

The 1pc counter is independent of the mainshaft selection except that it's only MM6 ratio in the viper and C6-Z06, and the oddball M10 ratio of the real SSR unit. The 2pc counter can also work between the families in most instances, keeping the ratios in mind.

Do you require a viper input and front plate for your design? The input is also part of the synchro family (single/double or double/triple) and you can't use a viper input with the SSR mainshaft or C5 doner.

Motorcitydak

Well for the engine I am running a 5.7 Hemi and already have the quicktime bell housing to bolt it all together. I am just trying to get this all to work together soon for a relatively low amount of more $ needed. I am not opposed to having the ssr shaft machined if I need to but looking at the two, it really does not seem like there is enough material to have them match

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (9)

You might have to go the route of Rockland or G-Force and get a 9310 steel 32-spline mainshaft to mount all your single/double gears/synchros on. (Or I seem to remember Tick posting on here that they resell them, but maybe only the 30-splined versions? Might be another source to check) You should be able to resell the SSR mainshaft and 1st gear to recoup much of your investment.

Motorcitydak

What about if I swap to a double cone input shaft? The Viper input is actually about 3/8 or so too long for my setup and I will have to cut it down to use it. Something of a very similar size could work for me. I do not yet have a clutch or flywheel. Something with a 26 spline clutch would be fine and a custom crank bushing would also be fine

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (9)

You can't mix/match parts between the single/double and double/triple
Mainshaft and inputs, only some parts exchange on 5/6/REV and counter.

The GM LSx single and double cone synchro inputs are ~1inch shorter than
The viper, so they would be close by using and extended pilot bushing/bearing.
(I'm not familiar with the hemi crank to know what's available for it)

Motorcitydak

Rite. What I was thinking was to use the SSR shaft and input (or input from another MM6 triple/double cone application) that way 3-4 would have the double cone. Then just have the input shaft machined to work with my clutch/crank. I also am not sure what pilot bearings are available but having something made should not be too much of an issue. I only said double cone input before because 3-4 is double, correct? or are 1-2 and 3-4 triple?

One thing I did notice is that (besides the recess for the retainer) the 1 and 2 gears are the exact same for either double or triple cone synchro's

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (9)

If the 1inch shorter LS triple/double input from a C5 donor will work for your clutch/pilot/bell/etc., that may be the way to go. Sell the viper t56 and get a MM6 C5 T56 doner.

1-2 gears are not compatible between the early design and the latter, the latter triple cone has a cone friction surface whereas the early one just has notches for the blocker tabs. 1-2 are triple, 3-5, 5-6 are double,,rev is single. In the latter design. In the early design 1-2 are double, the rest are all single.

Motorcitydak

Is the input for either the t56 magnum, gto or cts-v any longer? I think that an input 1 full inch shorter would be too short for me

Motorcitydak

Also does the vette have the regular t56 shift detent setup? I have to run a Keisler mid shift setup so I need to use that area. Also I assume that I can just cut down the front of the vette shift shaft then the viper mid plate would cover and support the front of the shaft

Do you know of a good place to find a c5 core? I saw one on ebay rite now for $500

I see what you are saying about the 1-2 gears now that I can look at them in person again. All I was going on before was this picture I took of the old and new 1st gear's

jmd

iTrader: (4)

A T56 input needs to match in gear tooth count, gear width, gear tooth profile, and synchro style before the length is considered.

I'd do some hard-core measuring to see if a custom pilot suits your build before jumping around further on parts selection. Pilot support of the input is extremely important.

If you're pretty hell-bent on the 2.66 / .50 gearset & 32 spline, do say so.

Motorcitydak

I am not necessarily set on the 2.66 ratio but I know that my car will not end up weighing that much (around 2500#) so I think that the 2.97 will be a little too much with 4.56 gears. I can see what would happen with 2.97 tho and 4.10

Motorcitydak

Well I ended up taking your advise mike. I bought a '99 corvette transmission and will swap my mid plate and my 32 spline main shaft, cut down the shift shaft and install a mid shifter since I need one anyways. It would have been possible to buy all new stuff to keep my viper box but would have cost a lot more to buy 2nd, 3rd, input shaft, 1-2, 3-4 synchro assy's and blocker rings. Plus all the bearings and spacers to make it work. My Viper t-56 is for sale but I cannot post it here yet because i have not been on this site for 30 days. It is listed on pro-touring.com and lateral-g.net