New to tuning, looking for timing table advice. Built LQ4.
06-04-2015, 07:24 AM
#1
New to tuning, looking for timing table advice. Built LQ4. Hello all! Im going to keep this as short as I can. I just got into tuning recently. Trying to sort my car out after my new build. Ill start with a brief history so you know how I got here, and Ill give the full spec list of the motor.
Car is an 86 Trans AM. Originally I swapped a 99 LS1 into it. Motor was fully built and partially tuned. I had it on a dyno with a good tuner, and it was having some issues. Turned out I had clogged injectors. Ended up destroying that motor. Also during this process, I was told my LS1 PCM was locked, so I bought a new one. I asked for an 02 LS1 M6 PCM. After hooking up to it, it comes up as an 01 V6 Blazer. But its obviously been flashed to work...because the car runs well haha.
Motor #2 is a 2004 LQ4. I built it using some new parts, and some old parts. So now Im trying to dial this thing in on my own. Im afraid that Im working with sins from the past in some parts of the tune. Namely the timing table. It seems super choppy. People have told me to start bumping timing, but Im not sure Im at a good starting point. I have no knock. Even when the car was running lean.
Build:
LQ4, stock rods, stock pistons, ARP rod bolts.
MTi Stage IIe 5.3L heads with Tooley springs and push rods
Cam is 230/234 .609/.612" 113LSA +3 I think I figured out 6* overlap
Fast 90 Intake
Nick Williams 90mm Throttle body. No extra drilling, TPS sits at .70v at idle and hits 4.70ish at WOT.
36lb flow matched injectors, IFR and inj data straight from FIC.
85mm truck MAF with 4" intake, still using external IAT located in a non-heat soak area.
Stock coils, good wires, new plugs, new O2 sensors
Car is a T56 also.
I will post my latest tune, latest log which is pretty long with some WOT, and my config. The log doesnt include my latest changes as I havent been able to run the car since.
The car runs good. Im not sure if Im just used to the power, but it doesnt feel too terribly fast. Tho it scoots well. I feel like the fueling is close if not good to go. Depending on temps, it wants me to pull fuel, then add it, so im chasing my tail. Im in OL SD right now. Its close enough that I want to finalize my timing, since I need to revisit VE after that anyway. But when I look at my timing table, I dont know where to start. It seems really chopped up with large "steps". This is where Im hoping to get some help. I see lots of people say increase 6-8* over stock. Well..this isnt stock. I dont think? Last motor had a reverse split cam, less cubes and more compression, so if this is a result of that combo I feel that there has to be improvement to be had.
Some other things the car does that will need addressed. It likes to stumble/stall when hitting 0mph. Now Ive read lots of write ups on how to deal with this, and Ill tackle it when I square the rest away. The other thing it likes to do is have a lazy start up. Wont really crank long, but when it fires, its almost like its slowly waking up vs that nice explosive start that the cold start has.
Any feedback on the timing is more than appreciated! I know this wasnt as short as I hoped..haha. Thanks for reading if you made it this far!
Justin
Car is an 86 Trans AM. Originally I swapped a 99 LS1 into it. Motor was fully built and partially tuned. I had it on a dyno with a good tuner, and it was having some issues. Turned out I had clogged injectors. Ended up destroying that motor. Also during this process, I was told my LS1 PCM was locked, so I bought a new one. I asked for an 02 LS1 M6 PCM. After hooking up to it, it comes up as an 01 V6 Blazer. But its obviously been flashed to work...because the car runs well haha.
Motor #2 is a 2004 LQ4. I built it using some new parts, and some old parts. So now Im trying to dial this thing in on my own. Im afraid that Im working with sins from the past in some parts of the tune. Namely the timing table. It seems super choppy. People have told me to start bumping timing, but Im not sure Im at a good starting point. I have no knock. Even when the car was running lean.
Build:
LQ4, stock rods, stock pistons, ARP rod bolts.
MTi Stage IIe 5.3L heads with Tooley springs and push rods
Cam is 230/234 .609/.612" 113LSA +3 I think I figured out 6* overlap
Fast 90 Intake
Nick Williams 90mm Throttle body. No extra drilling, TPS sits at .70v at idle and hits 4.70ish at WOT.
36lb flow matched injectors, IFR and inj data straight from FIC.
85mm truck MAF with 4" intake, still using external IAT located in a non-heat soak area.
Stock coils, good wires, new plugs, new O2 sensors
Car is a T56 also.
I will post my latest tune, latest log which is pretty long with some WOT, and my config. The log doesnt include my latest changes as I havent been able to run the car since.
The car runs good. Im not sure if Im just used to the power, but it doesnt feel too terribly fast. Tho it scoots well. I feel like the fueling is close if not good to go. Depending on temps, it wants me to pull fuel, then add it, so im chasing my tail. Im in OL SD right now. Its close enough that I want to finalize my timing, since I need to revisit VE after that anyway. But when I look at my timing table, I dont know where to start. It seems really chopped up with large "steps". This is where Im hoping to get some help. I see lots of people say increase 6-8* over stock. Well..this isnt stock. I dont think? Last motor had a reverse split cam, less cubes and more compression, so if this is a result of that combo I feel that there has to be improvement to be had.
Some other things the car does that will need addressed. It likes to stumble/stall when hitting 0mph. Now Ive read lots of write ups on how to deal with this, and Ill tackle it when I square the rest away. The other thing it likes to do is have a lazy start up. Wont really crank long, but when it fires, its almost like its slowly waking up vs that nice explosive start that the cold start has.
Any feedback on the timing is more than appreciated! I know this wasnt as short as I hoped..haha. Thanks for reading if you made it this far!
Justin
06-04-2015, 08:47 AM
#2
Moderator
Since you already have 26-27* of spark advance you certainly can't raise it by 6-8*. Your AFR, IAT and ECT correction tables are zeroed out, which is fine and simpler.
I notice that your advance drops from 26* at 3200 to 23* at 4000-4800 and then rises to 27 at 6000. I'll let the experts comment on that, but IMHO is a bit unusual for such a bit dip.
Also what is your stall speed?
Personally I have had Knock retard kick in between e.g. 2400 and my 3600 stall speed and therefore reduced the advance below my stall speed.
Obviously a good dyno tune should be able to come up with a very good advance table.
I notice that your advance drops from 26* at 3200 to 23* at 4000-4800 and then rises to 27 at 6000. I'll let the experts comment on that, but IMHO is a bit unusual for such a bit dip.
Also what is your stall speed?
Personally I have had Knock retard kick in between e.g. 2400 and my 3600 stall speed and therefore reduced the advance below my stall speed.
Obviously a good dyno tune should be able to come up with a very good advance table.
06-04-2015, 11:56 AM
#3
No stall speed. Car has a T56.
That big/odd dip youre talking about is part of what Im trying to figure out. Ive seen some say the timing table should be nice and smooth, like VE. Other tunes Ive looked at have had similar choppy timing tables. Even stock tables.
Im not seeing any KR at the moment. I had a tiny bit when I started, but it was on launch, and Im 99% sure it was my rod end suspension parts clanking. Or my exhaust tagging the crossmember since its so close. Ive since ironed that out and havent seen KR since.
Im not even concerned with making peak power at the moment. Im more going for drivability and reliability. If the car responds better and picks up some power, awesome. Ide love to get it back on the dyno, but its a little rich for my blood, especially if something ends up being messed up again and I have to come back. I have a sneaking suspicion that the timing jumps are causing some odd behavior even when just cruising around in the car.
So really Im just looking for some advice on how to deal with the table. I almost wish I started with a stock PCM. Because Im just not sure whats been fiddled with and how much.
J.
That big/odd dip youre talking about is part of what Im trying to figure out. Ive seen some say the timing table should be nice and smooth, like VE. Other tunes Ive looked at have had similar choppy timing tables. Even stock tables.
Im not seeing any KR at the moment. I had a tiny bit when I started, but it was on launch, and Im 99% sure it was my rod end suspension parts clanking. Or my exhaust tagging the crossmember since its so close. Ive since ironed that out and havent seen KR since.
Im not even concerned with making peak power at the moment. Im more going for drivability and reliability. If the car responds better and picks up some power, awesome. Ide love to get it back on the dyno, but its a little rich for my blood, especially if something ends up being messed up again and I have to come back. I have a sneaking suspicion that the timing jumps are causing some odd behavior even when just cruising around in the car.
So really Im just looking for some advice on how to deal with the table. I almost wish I started with a stock PCM. Because Im just not sure whats been fiddled with and how much.
J.